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BigShow36

Why Kill Times Matter

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I have to say I generally agree with the OP. The importance of fast Minimum TTK and noticeably higher Average TTK cannot be understated.

 

I've played Halo since 2005, but didn't get LIVE until 2012, so since most of my online Halo career involves Halo 4 (a lot of Reach CEA classic as well), I often still feel completely new to the scene, and hell, it looks like I missed it.

 

I always wanted to see if I could maybe go competitive or anything like it, trying to constantly get better at the game, but within around 6 months to a year of being online, I slowly started to lose interest and confidence in that little dream.

 

So aside from the fact that just no one really cares about Halo these days as opposed to when I first was introduced to the series, one of the prime reasons I hate attempting high level Halo these days is because of how passive, setup, and teamshot reliant you have to be to play at a high level.

 

With good memories of Reach CEA Classic(the CE style settings playlist that uses the Reach engine to somewhat emulate CE), and CE itself with MCC, I am damn certain that a big problem with all other Halo settings is the slow Minimum TTK and fast Average TTK in comparison.

 

I am that type of Lone Wolf player that loves to solo-flank and wipe out the enemy. The type that likes to dominate FFA as a self-sufficient One Man Army. I'm that player that in every non-CE-style Halo that you yell at and tell to stick back with the team for the setup. The type of player that challenges and chases more than he should at times.

 

So in 'TeamBR!' Halo I feel like my entire playstyle is shut down, and I am forced to play unnaturally it feels like. I am told to stop pushing, challenging, and to stay back with the team because the enemy will just retreat when I weaken one and proceed to easily teamshoot me and put me down. It makes me feel impotent and weak. And I ain't as into the 'team support' mindset as much as other friends/players and therefore just nowhere near as good as it naturally as they are. It makes me feel stupid when I know I ain't. Highly discouraging.

 

In Reach CEA, and even better in CE itself, I feel like I can play much more naturally. Like I have been unleashed. I can kill players before they can bait and switch for the teamshot kill, yet still react to the ambush of another player through strafing along with my shot and all those awesome reversal moments that Halo is famous for. I can move around more freely and independently, challenge and occasionally chase if I get over-confident.

 

And I feel like I can actually be a better team player by NOT being forced to depend on them all the time. Its not that I don't like teamwork, I just hate having to depend on people, especially since it makes any time they fail to be dependable that much worse.

 

Unfortunately Reach CEA was too niche and separate from the actual Reach MLG settings (which were 'teamDMRs!'), and CE's age itself is a big turnoff for most people I know as well as for the community making any modern scene out of it. Or any really accessible scene at least. Many of my friends refused when I wanted to start getting into MCC HCE.

 

So I feel left out of the fun of Halo, restrained from playing it naturally at my best because Lone Wolf Flankers and One Man Armies like me are rendered nearly useless in teamshot Halo. Only Team Support, 'Anchors', 'Help' and 'Backup' allowed.

 

Thats not to say that I don't understand the importance of working as a team BTW, just why must it be forced down my throat while I'm kicking and screaming? Come on, I am not an idiot.

 

And that is basically how I feel on this subject, it even affects my desire to play even somewhat competitively. And I hope that I am not alone on this, as it almost always feels that way.

 

I know that this post doesn't have a bunch of numbers in it for the discussion of the topic, but what I write here hopefully explains the way players with individual skill or anything similar feel about teamshot Halo.

 

And I am not even that great, although not awful, so please don't take this as me flaunting my skills.

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Do you remember what it was called and when you wrote it? I've looked up lots of old stuff on the MLG forums and were able to find lots of interesting stuff.

 

I couldn't find it! wanted to compare how things have changed since your write-up. 

 

Never posted it. Just another piece of my project.

 

BTW whats up mark? Long time no see.

 

Below is the part where I call out the human reaction time. The numbers are different but I find it hilarious that BigShow and I both drew the same conclusions based on that idea. His explanation is better than mine for sure.

 

Speed

 

Giving the primary rifle sufficient range is an absolutely vital factor in maintaining the fairness that I spoke about earlier in this document. An equally important factor is how fast you are able to kill an opponent at any range. My opening paragraph in this section mentioned it might be contentious. Kill times are one of the most argued and disagreed upon topics in the ever-so fractured and divided Halo community. This again stems from the hugely different entry points to the Halo franchise, discussed in detail in the preface of this section.

 

Speed of a perfect kill is one of the most important things about a Halo game. It completely dictates the pace of the entire game. Equally important is the average kill time, which is influenced primarily by difficulty. Understanding how these two work together is vital. Average kill time will be expanded on in the Rifles section, where we can examine difficulty of shooting in more detail. A summary of it is that you want your average kill time to be significantly higher than the perfect times. The larger the disparity between the two, the more opportunities a player has to separate himself from his opponents. Let’s begin to by talking about perfect kill times, and what modifying them does to players who shoot very accurately.

 

Lowering the perfect kill times creates a dynamic that is more about shooting and less about mitigating and minimizing damage taken. This is intrinsically correlated to a person’s ability to react. The average human reaction time is about a quarter of a second. By my estimate they’d need about another half second to turn the thumbstick, aim, and start shooting back, which makes the average FPS counteraction is about 0.75 seconds.

In a game with a perfect kill time of roughly 1.4-1.7 seconds, a person cannot be killed with a primary rifle without time to think and react. The brain works very well at processing information for a fight or flight response and they can make this choice near-instantly.

 

If they choose to engage, they can hurt the aggressor to the point he will have to retreat to recharge shields or he will most certainly lose his next encounter. If they choose to evade, the aggressor may have to chase the kill and he will always lose the element of surprise no matter what happens. Most times they will choose to evade, especially if they have an effective method of doing so, such as sprint. Slow kill times coupled with viable and effective defensive measures utterly devalues intelligent movement and the ability to get the first shot. This makes the game focused entirely on teamshooting. When you halve the kill time via two people shooting at once, you can put someone down before they have a chance to react and evade or react and put shots on the aggressor. That is one of the reasons that teamshooting is so key in pretty much all of the Halo sequels. If you can bring back a time where a perfect kill is faster than an average person can react, you begin to reward smart play and not penalize the aggressor with being forced to chase or going into his next battle with half shields.

 

In a game with a perfect kill time below 1 second, you do not give a person adequate time to react. If the aggressor’s shots are perfect and unaware person doesn’t have time to react, they simply die. They are never presented with the option to engage or evade. They have no chance to run and no chance to weaken the aggressor. This creates the opposite situation. Awareness, accuracy and intelligent movement are consistently rewarded because perfect shots yield a kill without taking any damage and sometimes without even giving away the aggressor’s position. Again though, the formula only really works when the average kill time is much higher and the gun is difficult to use.

 

When perfects shots are something special, separation occurs more naturally. When perfect shots are commonplace, the game becomes much less interesting. You see many more of the rock, paper, scissors and checkmate scenarios that were discussed at length in Section One. Speed without difficulty does not a good Halo game make. Halo 4 has thirteen instant kill weapons (rocket, incineration cannon, fuel rod gun, sticky detonator, railgun, sniper, beam rifle, binary rifle, boltshot, shotgun, scattershot, sword and hammer). That isn’t even counting the SAW, which is the third most powerfully versatile weapon in the Halo franchise behind the Halo 4 beam rifle and the Halo 1 Pistol. It can be a very fast game, but unless you bring the primary rifles’ perfect kill times down and average kill times up, people still feel powerless unless they are carrying a one-hit-kill weapon.

 

I don’t understand how developers can look at the Call of Duty franchise, with incredibly quick kill times, destroy Halo in terms of sales and playing and they just keep making the game slower and nerfing the rifles more and more. By doing this, they are alienating the Halo crowd and definitely not attracting the Call of Duty players. In my experience, a common complaint that CoD players have about Halo is that “It's not realistic” and "I shoot people and they don't die." Halo may never be realistic, but they could do a bit more to make enemies die more quickly.

 

 

The rest of the stuff is in other areas.

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Never posted it. Just another piece of my project.

 

 

 

 

The rest of the stuff is in other areas.

im pretty sure i read a big ass post by you like 3 years ago saying the same thing. it might not have been a thread but a long ass post.

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As I move on from yet another Halo game that failed to hold my interest, I like to put some of my thoughts in writing.

I want a Halo CE 2. Pretty much sums up my thoughts on H2 and H3. I love those games but they weren't as good as H1, it made individual skill less important and teamwork suddenly became the mecca of Halo. In Halo 1 you could always at least trade, in Halo 2 team shot just became too powerful. It definitely made the games more one-dimensional, power-weapons went from being skilled weapons in certain situations to just dominating an entire side of the map and stopping map flow. Halo 1 was the best in the series, I would like to get a game based off that formula more than the h2/h3 formula. 

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What's going on now is some kind of borrowing from Quake or similar arena shooters where the first thing a player looks to do off spawn is upgrade his crappy default weapon. That doesn't work so well for Halo since it's not so heavily movement-based or built around the concept of an arms race.

 

 

A lot of us that were playing FPS around the H1 days remember that in most arena shooters you ran around the map collecting as many one hit kill rocket launchers with unlimited ammo as possible trying to hit jagged moving characters. No game had the most skilled gun in the game be the most viable gun in the game, and had you spawn with it is as the default weapon. Aiming had never really been fluid and intricate before.

 

Making the starting weapon the master of none, and having you run around the map picking up OP Storm Rifles really contradicts advances Halo made for the entire FPS genre.

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