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Switch? HALO 2 BR for HCS

HCS Halo 2 Battle Rifle Switch. VOTE!  

251 members have voted

  1. 1. Pistol/AR OR Halo 2 BR start?

    • Pistol/AR
      132
    • Halo 2 BR/AR
      21
    • Halo 2 BR
      98


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Autos are still highly limited by the range at which they are able to do anything. If a player is more than 20 feet away, there is almost no chance that they are going to lose to an auto when they are using a precision weapon. Watching pro play, I see a majority of them relying on the pistol and other precision weapons heavily. When they get into close quarters, autos are used, but that is intended. The way I see it, they are finally strong enough to serve their niche, something I don't think was ever true before (things like dual wield meant that a single instance of an auto couldn't be overpowered). The biggest factor to why autos may be -too- strong is in this bogeyman situation where players are all crouching in corners with autos with radar allowing them to see everything. I do feel the increased movement in Halo 5 (sprint, spartan abilities, thrust, clamber, etc.) combined with the vertical nature of the maps makes radar, especially at a shortened range, not as broken as you'd think and is also why sitting in a corner is probably not the best strategy.

Autos should give you an edge in close range but they should not be an automatic kill. Which they are right now. If I have a storm rifle or an SMG in close range and you have a precision weapon. You are going to die. Pretty much no matter what. I can even miss a huge percentage of my shots and you can have perfect shots and you are still going to die.

 

That is an issue.

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Autos should give you an edge in close range but they should not be an automatic kill. Which they are right now. If I have a storm rifle or an SMG in close range and you have a precision weapon. You are going to die. Pretty much no matter what. I can even miss a huge percentage of my shots and you can have perfect shots and you are still going to die.

 

That is an issue.

 

I don't think you can miss a high percentage shots and still get the kill. You will generally win at that range if you land your shots, but that would be like complaining that a DMR will always beat an auto at long range. It is meant to excel to a high degree at that range, that is what makes them playable.

 

And with regard to that video, that is what reticle bloom is intended for. You are almost always going to be better served using a precision weapon at that range and it will almost always be better. That is the point.

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It's a great idea but unlikely.

 

It doesn't "fit" within the Halo 5 aesthetic and I feel that 343 won't want the competitive scene to be dominated by a dated weapon.

 

I am not saying that wouldn't prefer it, just saying it's unlikely.

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I don't think you can miss a high percentage shots and still get the kill. You will generally win at that range if you land your shots, but that would be like complaining that a DMR will always beat an auto at long range. It is meant to excel to a high degree at that range, that is what makes them playable.

 

 

The problem is that autos shouldn't be as powerful in their niche as precision weapons are. Unless 343 made the autos as skill based as the precision weapons.

 

It's the same reason the sniper can be effective at all ranges where as the shotgun is only uselful at close range.

 

The autos in this game are just not properly balanced for skill.

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Every weapon in H5 is superior to default reach except for the sniper. I was talking in context of the Reach sandbox where practically every precision weapon had bloom. There wasn't much thought at all with considering AR/Pistol/Radar for competitive.

 

I think the only difference now is that it's the current settings that have dev support. And with the community practically starved for any type of e-sport scene after the disaster that was Reach and H4, most players are willing to look the other way in exchange for 343 support.

 

 

I distinctly remember people arguing for pistol starts at the beginning of Reach (on the MLG forums), but yeah, not as much debate

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pvm8zjGuCs

 

Distance/accuracy needs to be nerfed.I should not be able to place shots on someone in what is pistol and unscoped br range.

Disclaimer:This is low Platinum FFA on an account I rolled to see where I'd place using the AR exclusively.

Finally someone agrees. I argued on reddit when the game first came out that the AR needed to be nerfed. This video is proof.

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But if you have a pistol and perfect someone with it and they have a br and even though they aren't missing, they die, you don't. My point. It's happened to me and I've done it to others

This just isn't true. Due to latency, you'll trade 100% of the time if you start firing at the exact same time. As it stands, the faster TTK doesn't mean anything. (Sorry if this has been said, reading from the start).

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How? There's no such thing.

 

No i was stating ideally that a 4SK pistol would be ideal for competitive settings.

 

This pistol currently is too weak to be a starting weapon, the BR is too easy.

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I would vote for a Pistol only start, but it isn't an option.  All that would be somewhat necessary is to have more starting ammo.

 

 

Also, it's a Magazine, not a clip...  Just a pet peeve of mine.

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Autos are still highly limited by the range at which they are able to do anything. If a player is more than 20 feet away, there is almost no chance that they are going to lose to an auto when they are using a precision weapon. Watching pro play, I see a majority of them relying on the pistol and other precision weapons heavily. When they get into close quarters, autos are used, but that is intended. The way I see it, they are finally strong enough to serve their niche, something I don't think was ever true before (things like dual wield meant that a single instance of an auto couldn't be overpowered). The biggest factor to why autos may be -too- strong is in this bogeyman situation where players are all crouching in corners with autos with radar allowing them to see everything. I do feel the increased movement in Halo 5 (sprint, spartan abilities, thrust, clamber, etc.) combined with the vertical nature of the maps makes radar, especially at a shortened range, not as broken as you'd think and is also why sitting in a corner is probably not the best strategy.

Please read the post ramirez linked earlier, a niche should not mean easy kills with every weapon..

I guess this is a classic scenario of agree to dissagree, you either didn't understand or care what I wrote or you are part of this new demographic I was talking about.

 

Let's try to see balancing as a actual scale,adding something to one side of the scale just works if add just as much to the other side (buff automatics->buff precisions) if you want to keep the balance. If you're adding just to one side (or adding a lot more to one side than to the other) than the scale is not in balance anymore.

If you now say that this is better in your opinion than you either prefer a sandbox that is not in balance (note, the Halo "sandbox-scale" is not the same as the CoD "sandbox-scale") or you believe this imaginary sandbox scale was not in balance before. if this is the case, you'd believe that bungie made the same design error over and over again. Considering how many BS mechanics Reach added, the basic principle of stronger, allround precision weapons is probably the only gameplay principle that all Halo had in common. Some games did it better, others did it not so good but no matter if you look at HCE or Reach, every Halo that has been developed by it's actual creator, had precision weapons working as a primary weapon (it was not always the default starting weapon but Bungie usually changed it/let the community change it) and if you want to see it as a flaw, I cannot change your mind,  but I believe that most hardcore fans, who started playing with HCE/2/3 would rather see it as a feature of Halo.

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The problem with the autos in H5 is that they actually make it so that the precision weapons in the game are not utility weapons in the true sense anymore. A utility weapon is essentially a weapon that can beat any non power weapon at any range if the user is accurate with it. That's not the case in H5; the autos will practically always come out on top at close range regardless of how good the opponents aim is with a precision weapon. The minimum kill times are literally lower for many of the autos, so they are both substantially easier to use and also faster to kill. That should never be the case and that's why the autos in their current form are bad for the game, regardless of usage statistics. They've removed the utility property from the precision weapons.

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No i was stating ideally that a 4SK pistol would be ideal for competitive settings.

 

This pistol currently is too weak to be a starting weapon, the BR is too easy.

 

Realistically, there is a better chance of have the BR as a starting weapon then the Pistol becoming a 4sk. I just don't think there's going to be any weapon balancing.

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Realistically, there is a better chance of have the BR as a starting weapon then the Pistol becoming a 4sk. I just don't think there's going to be any weapon balancing.

what makes you think switching to the BR is more realistic? That would make the pistol completly redundant and after all the effort that 343 has gone through to place every wepon in Arena, this is highly unlikly IMO

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This game was designed around pistol/AR starts. Having a BR off start would limit map movement immensely because everyone would be shooting long range the whole time and would not be able to move around. The pistol is a fantastic weapon that requires more skill then a BR to win a fight with.

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since 343i seems to struggle with the decision to go with a 4shot pistol why not increase the firerate of the current 5shot pistol slightly?

so it sits somewhere between the tkk of a 4shot and a 5shot pistol

 

most casual players probably wont notice the slight increasement anyhow

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what makes you think switching to the BR is more realistic? That would make the pistol completly redundant and after all the effort that 343 has gone through to place every wepon in Arena, this is highly unlikly IMO

 

I'm just saying there's a very low chance there's going to be changes to the pistol. That's all.

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Just found out that this BR even exists in this game. The slow backtrack begins, Soon you guys will have good Halo versions of every gun in that game.

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Realistically, there is a better chance of have the BR as a starting weapon then the Pistol becoming a 4sk. I just don't think there's going to be any weapon balancing.

Never, ever think like that. We'd still be running around with armor abilities, and breakout would still be in The HCS.

 

Stop acting like we as a community don't have any power.

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Yes, the BR feels more natural in this game than the pistol to me and I love having a starting weapon with alot of ammo. Feels more H2-like than Reach-like to me and the H2 BR accentuates a fast-paced Halo game.

 

Why not BR/pistol though? Pistol is a quick switch and a good secondary and would be a nice side-arm for BR starts. I dont understand the people saying that a single-shot weapon with limited range is superior for a fast-paced Halo, the game is clearly not like HCE where you have constant rotations of PW weapons, a more strategic style of map movement(lol sprint+thruster+clamber) and the ability to out-shoot a player with first shot frequently. H5 fits the H2 mold much more in my opinion even though it may be more CoD-like than anything.

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NO!

 

BR burst fire make very easy headshots.

 

4sk Pistol (with reduced aim assist/magnetism).

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