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[POLL] HCS Pro Player Feedback - Gametypes & Settings

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That sure didn't stop him from feeding us bullshit and calling it evidence supporting 343's actions.

 

Maybe it's not Josh's fault specifically but this isn't just a simple fuck-up, this is shady.

someone at 343 was trying to spin bullshit to fit their agenda, no matter what somebody was lied to by a member of 343, I guess we just found out that they literally spin bullshit to themselves to do this as well.

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Not surprised that many pros don't mind the autos - it's simply not as big a deal at such high 4v4 levels. 

 

Where they rear their ugly heads is in FFA, Dubs, and lower-level Auto-crouch camping.

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Talking pros here buddy. I've watched countless streams and seen someone pop up on radar out of line of sight and player pays 0 attention to until shooting them in back. That tells me they aren't looking at the radar

Umm they are watching the radar all the time. That's why they'll call it things like "right above me" or "under me" when they aren't looking. It's especially prevalent when they crouch behind walls and watch the radar it's literally happening all the time.

 

And why would you only talk about 1% of the players? Even if pros never use it everyone else in MM does and that's a huge issue. Just like autos. So what if the pros use them less? If it's being completely abused in MM it's a problem.

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Fixing point 2 will elevate the problems of point 3

 

Alleviate not elevate. I think that is what you mean.

 

 

I think there should be a poll of controversial topics between each season/major tournament. Just like MLG setting v1/2/3/4/etc. The results should be evaluated before each season/major.

 

At this point I agree with the Pro players. Remove breakout. Radar and Autos should remain until the end of the season at least. They should be revisited AFTER the HWC.

 

 

If people are really that surprised by the last 2 questions, I don't know why. These guys have been putting ungodly hours into this game. They have had to adapt to the radar and powerful AR/SMG/Storm Rifle. And I can honestly say that I've seen 90% of Pro players taking advantage of crouching and powerful autos at some point.

 

While I agree that it lowers the importance of what we call "skill" (ie. precision weapon aiming), it just doesn't effect the game enough to REALLY matter at the Pro level at this point (it effects non-Pro MM games far more IMO). It tends to get used situationally, not all game. VERY rarely have I seen radars and powerful autos really change the outcome of a match, because precision weapons (pistol, BR, DMR, etc), power weapons (Rockets, Sniper) and Camo/Overshield are still FAR more important to the outcome of a match, by a LARGE margin.

 

However breakout has basically screwed EVERY Pro at least a few times. Even the Pro's that like initially as a "fresh" gametype have come to realize that it is a complete luck game. Who gets a lucky grenade kill. And the stalemate/hiding/tie games are enough to give you a headache. It sucks because the gametype isn't THAT bad when both teams are aggressive and have a strategy. But the way it currently is just doesn't work. Period.

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Gonna have to disagrer. No radar shall improve this but it by no means fixes the issues the autos currently have. The storm rifle melts HEALTH (it can melt shields as is, not a problem) ridiculously quick, the AR's range is insane combined with stupid crouch and smart scope bonuses, and the SMG and suppressor are just redundant.

 

We shouldn't just try to improve our situation; we should find a solution TO the situation.

But without radar I don't think people would use the ar or sr as much because they don't know if people re around them. It's like a safety blanket. If radars are gone they will feel the need to have a pistol/br out because they don't want to get caught in a midrange gun battle with an automatic out.

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...I've worked alongside 343 for over a year now and they are not liars...

 

Is that how it is? Or is that 'just how you remember it'?

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That sure didn't stop him from feeding us bullshit and calling it evidence supporting 343's actions.

 

Maybe it's not Josh's fault specifically but this isn't just a simple fuck-up, this is shady.

That's the problem though. I saw so many people jump to conclusions without taking all factors into consideration. You say it's shady but there is a very strong possibility that a sample of pro players were asked and the majority were in favor of it but those opinions probably changed OR the people who provided the information weren't telling the truth and didn't want to cause a stir. Just like those same people voted for AR/Magnums / radars but couldn't say that publicly for fear of being blasted by the community for not being honest or chasing the money. Whatever happened in the past happened and this poll is a good indicator of what the current feelings are with the top players. So you present this to 343 (as I'm sure its already been seen) and we go from there.

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That's the problem though. I saw so many people jump to conclusions without taking all factors into consideration. You say it's shady but there is a very strong possibility that a sample of pro players were asked and the majority were in favor of it but those opinions probably changed OR the people who provided the information weren't telling the truth and didn't want to cause a stir. Just like those same people voted for AR/Magnums / radars but couldn't say that publicly for fear of being blasted by the community for not being honest or chasing the money. Whatever happened in the past happened and this poll is a good indicator of what the current feelings are with the top players. So you present this to 343 (as I'm sure its already been seen) and we go from there.

 

Snakebite specifically said that the pros were not asked en masse whether they liked breakout.

 

It was not a misuse of words, it was a straight up lie.

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It's no surprise people want breakout gone. I would say the reasoning behind not nerfing autos is they don't trust 343 to get it right this close to Champs. I also think some people want to keep radar because of abilities like ground pound, spartan charge, and thrusters/sprint. I think also if radar was removed that autos would become more OP. I think that 3 needs to happen before 2 does, and even then the sandbox might work better (unfortunately) with radar.

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"The Sprint: Episode 4 New Tricks".

 

I found the Pro Poll. After playing a few rounds of it in Beta, that was all they needed to form an opinion.

:wutface:  :kappa:

 

I'd also like to point out that Walshy has consistently pointed out the problems with breakout. How the mode would devolve into the same thing over and over. I've also heard him (before launch) mention the issue with knowing where to throw grenades on the maps just completely ruining the maps (he says maps, but honestly it's the whole gametype because they can't make maps to fix the issues IMO).

 

I think Walshy needs to be a Pro Team game tester. I feel like he is just so good at understanding what makes a game competitive. He gets the difference between "fun" and "competitive" and how to blend the two. Just my opinion.

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Snakebite specifically said that the pros were not asked en masse whether they liked breakout.

 

It was not a misuse of words, it was a straight up lie.

You and I have been through similar song and dances before and they usually don't go anywhere but I stand by what I said. I don't think anyone is lying and assuming that without knowing who was asked, on both sides, Is the wrong way to go. Currently, the top players do not want breakout in the mix and that's clear cut evidence that's tangible. Anything else is just an assumption with all the facts.

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Also, someone made the call to say changing a box on a map means it should be called a "NEW MAP". Someone also made that call to say all this content being released late (like forge, file shares, etc.) is part of a "SUSTAIN PLAN".

1. Really the only map you can say that for is Eden as there's little difference between it and Empire. Regret, Overgrowth, and even Riptide play differently and look differently. 

 

2. If the content isn't ready are you going to release it? [insert MCC joke here]  But seriously are you? Have you seen what forge is now and what it's able to do? I would say the extra time for them was worth the wait

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I find it extremely hard to believe that Breakout was tested significantly, given the state of some of the default Breakout maps, the shoddy implementation of the objective, and how quickly Halo 5's premier "competitive" mode was dropped for a one-life gametype on default maps.

 

To me, it feels like some out-of-touch higher up at 343 took note of the popularity of CSGO and CoD's SnD, and said "I want that. Give me something like that". Come to think of it, some spartan-abilities have the same sort of feel.

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Snakebite specifically said that the pros were not asked en masse whether they liked breakout.

 

It was not a misuse of words, it was a straight up lie.

 

Josh responded a second time, he said he was informed of a Skype call that someone at 343 had with pros before the Xmas break ... either he was misinformed or the call wasn't with that many pros

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I don't see how pros can support autos and radar in competitive play. Watching somebody spray somebody with a storm rifle is lame as hell... Bad for both players and spectators. 

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Snakebite specifically said that the pros were not asked en masse whether they liked breakout.

 

It was not a misuse of words, it was a straight up lie.

 

I didn't take the original Holmes post to mean they had a formal yes/no poll.  Taking this argument from 0 to 60, like this is some Watergate, is groan worthy. 

 

Can we try a 6 month Lemon-persona hiatus?  Even when I agree with your platform, I end up rooting against you - I honestly would rather see it fail rather than ever be rewarded in the real world.

 

In and gone before the "we tried playing nice for years" - which is as much of a "misuse of words" as I've seen.

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I'm just going to chime in here because people should know this. I gain nothing by defending 343 or siding with the community. I'm grateful to have done so much in my life that its led me to a good job at Twitch and I don't need to cast but I do it because I genuinely love it. I love Halo, I love the craziness, and I also love this community because of the incredible discussions we can have. What I don't love is when someone judges my character because it doesn't fit with their views. It's not even apart of my job at Twitch to be this involved with Halo but I do it because it's my passion. So no, it's not "how I remember it" it's how it is and whether you believe me or not is up to you to decide but I know who I am and why I'm doing this.

 

 

I <3 :wutface:

 

Really, I appreciate you being dedicated to the Halo Community. Regardless of the flack you will get in this thread, you have helped the Halo scene grow. Keep doing you!

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Umm they are watching the radar all the time. That's why they'll call it things like "right above me" or "under me" when they aren't looking. It's especially prevalent when they crouch behind walls and watch the radar it's literally happening all the time.

 

And why would you only talk about 1% of the players? Even if pros never use it everyone else in MM does and that's a huge issue. Just like autos. So what if the pros use them less? If it's being completely abused in MM it's a problem.

I see your points and I know the use the thing. I don't think they use it as much as you think they do though, I could be wrong idk. You can listen and tell if above or below, that's how I do it and how pros have in past Halo's. But anyway this was pro poll so I'm talking about pros. This was about HWC rules, they don't have to be the same as matchmaking so only concerns pros.

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1. Really the only map you can say that for is Eden as there's little difference between it and Empire. Regret, Overgrowth, and even Riptide play differently and look differently.

 

2. If the content isn't ready are you going to release it? [insert MCC joke here] But seriously are you? Have you seen what forge is now and what it's able to do? I would say the extra time for them was worth the wait

those aren't the only remixes, and overgrowth is the only one that plays significantly different to its predecessor, regret plays simply like truth but with more walls, making it just slower, it's still the same ring around the Rosie map, there's just a little more campy aspects, not enough to call it its own map.

 

And let's not forget the warzone remixes, where many of them just have spaces cut out and time of day changed.

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I see your points and I know the use the thing. I don't think they use it as much as you think they do though, I could be wrong idk. You can listen and tell if above or below, that's how I do it and how pros have in past Halo's. But anyway this was pro poll so I'm talking about pros. This was about HWC rules, they don't have to be the same as matchmaking so only concerns pros.

Yea I guess, pros do have really good headsets and communication so it's not as big for them but I still feel it's kinda unnecessary. I just don't like how I'll see someone like Snip3down start to flank and then have to crouch walk for 2 minutes to finally get a guy.
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I'm just going to chime in here because people should know this. I gain nothing by defending 343 or siding with the community. I'm grateful to have done so much in my life that its led me to a good job at Twitch and I don't need to cast but I do it because I genuinely love it. I love Halo, I love the craziness, and I also love this community because of the incredible discussions we can have. What I don't love is when someone judges my character because it doesn't fit with their views. It's not even apart of my job at Twitch to be this involved with Halo but I do it because it's my passion. So no, it's not "how I remember it" it's how it is and whether you believe me or not is up to you to decide but I know who I am and why I'm doing this.

we <3 u  :wutface:

 

your involved in halo is huge for our scene, seriously

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