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Joseph

[POLL] HCS Pro Player Feedback - Gametypes & Settings

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>throws random grenade across the map

>gets a kill

>has numbers

>pushes with advantage

>wins round

>repeat

 

That is a gross exaggeration, especially since the TTK is lower, allowing for outplay potential. I've killed 2 players trying to push me with 6 shots before. Yes, grenades can give you a kill, but since you only get one, you have to use it conservatively. Throwing random grenades is never a reliable way to win Breakout matches even if it might steal you a round here or there.

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That is a gross exaggeration, especially since the TTK is lower, allowing for outplay potential. I've killed 2 players trying to push me with 6 shots before. Yes, grenades can give you a kill, but since you only get one, you have to use it conservatively. Throwing random grenades is never a reliable way to win Breakout matches even if it might steal you a round here or there.

Your experience is not that of a pros. Numbers mean so much more when you are a machine the way they are. Breakout is fluky. The flukiest competitive gametype we have ever had in competitive Halo. Trades give a random team the win for crying out loud. Melees are one hit kills. The gametype is not competitive enough to be played for big money. Other modes are much better.

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Radar is the enemy to casual players.  It's like giving a metal bat to major league baseball players in general matchmaking lol..

 

How many clips have we seen where lesser skilled players are oblivious to radar?  So I have to ask, who exactly is radar catering to?  I'm tired of movement being gimped because of some false catering to people they think need it.  People can adapt to a Halo without radar; they already do by playing SWAT!  That shitty gametype is one of the more popular playlists and it doesn't have radar..  The instant kill gametype doesn't have radar but regular gametypes do.  Feels backwards to me.

 

And to see pro players vote in favor of it is disappointing, to say the least.  

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Breakout has many layers to skill and necessarily removes shields in favor of 300% health. I don't know why it playing different than the other game types (which each play different to each other) makes it not worthy of competitive play when the game itself is competitive. An elimination game type, like Breakout is currently, is a boon to competitive Halo and I hope 343 declines to remove it.

 

By all means, enlighten us.

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By all means, enlighten us.

Your name looks so weird without the purple. What happened to it?

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Your name looks so weird without the purple. What happened to it?

 

I asked Cyren to remove me as a VIP because I didn't want certain individuals hating on Beyond because "someone like me" had a purple name.

 

EDIT: Besides, I look bangin' in yellow. :kappa:

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Honestly doesn't surprise me that pros want breakout removed. It's a nice idea but it's incredibly inconsistent and really slows down the flow of a series. Playing a TS, CTF, then Breakout changes the pace of the series. Personally i dont enjoy it.

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Anyone else bothered that 40% of pros think radar should be in? Also ~40% of pros think h5's automatics don't need to be rebalanced?

 

It's good that the majority of pros are against radar and the current sandbox balance, but 40% is still a considerable number when we depend on pros to speak for the competitive halo community and help 343 with game testing.

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By all means, enlighten us.

Breakout restricts your ability to just trade favorably when you hit the first shot because headshots are so valuable without shields. It rewards better shots, rather than simply hitting your target -somewhere- and having it give the same result as a headshot when your target still has their shields. Having shields means that the TTK would become too high and having a numbers advantage would become a death knell. No pro team up 4v3 or 4v2 would lose rounds if there were shields, at least not with the probability necessary for the game mode to be truly competitive. Shields also make the person carrying the single flag far too resilient, making that too reliable of a win condition when it is intended to force map movement or take advantage of map control with a numbers advantage (just look at the consistency a player can ram the flag in on Regret or Empire in the current nonsense that they call Arena Breakout and you can see why shields in Breakout are an impossibility.

 

When talking about other layers of skill, there is a large amount of cover in the map, alternate routes (especially on larger maps such as the ones we saw in the community breakout playlist), and, most notably, no radar. Radar wouldn't be a big deal if it was also not present in other game modes, but its presence in the other game modes places emphasis on the importance of it being left out of Breakout. The round-based design of Breakout also means that teams need to adjust strategies and have multiple plays designed in order to succeed on different maps. It isn't just acceptable to have a single setup like many teams to on maps like The Rig, even if teams do have a "default" setup that they use, similar to CS:GO.

 

So, in short, that is my brief version of why I find Breakout competitive, why the 300% health and no shields is necessary, and why the overall design of the game is generally skill-based. I don't see a problem with it emphasizing different skills than slayer, just like CTF or strongholds emphasize diffferent skills. Granted, I'm sure people don't like that it is "different" from a damage mechanics standpoint, but that is something that I can't argue. It's subjective. For me, it is a non-factor for the reasons I stated above, and others. I'm aware that I may be the minority, but I don't particularly care. And, again, I have a strong feeling that many pros do not like the mode because they do not put in the requisite time into succeeding in it, especially over 9 rounds.

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Have you considered the pros know more what they're talking about then a lot of people on this forum? Just because no radars and eating, sleeping, and breathing only using the BR has been how it is in the past, doesn't mean that that would be the best option in H5. 

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Have you considered the pros know more what they're talking about then a lot of people on this forum? Just because no radars and eating, sleeping, and breathing only using the BR has been how it is in the past, doesn't mean that that would be the best option in H5.

Radar punishes aggressive plays, slows down gameplay, and encourages crouching with autos. This has been true in every single Halo game to date.

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Have you considered the pros know more what they're talking about then a lot of people on this forum? Just because no radars and eating, sleeping, and breathing only using the BR has been how it is in the past, doesn't mean that that would be the best option in H5. 

Pros have a history of not knowing what makes the game more competitive. The only reason they vote to keep radar on and autos OP is because they don't want gameplay changes this close to a major tournament. The pros want what's best for them as in chances of winning, and having the gameplay change drastically even if it means it'll be more competitive is not in their best interest. 

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Radar punishes aggressive plays, slows down gameplay, and encourages crouching with autos. This has been true in every single Halo game to date.

 

I have noticed VERY LITTLE slowed down gameplay and crouching with autos out in top level competitive gameplay. This game plays faster than any other Halo game. I remember a lot more stalemates in H2A and H3 than I do in this game. 

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I have noticed VERY LITTLE slowed down gameplay and crouching with autos out in top level competitive gameplay. This game plays faster than any other Halo game. I remember a lot more stalemates in H2A and H3 than I do in this game. 

2v2 CE games are faster paced than 4v4 Halo 5 games so I don't know what you're talking about. 

 

Besides, there are people crouching with autos in literally every single high level Halo 5 game and flanking is almost nonexistent. 

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I have noticed VERY LITTLE slowed down gameplay and crouching with autos out in top level competitive gameplay. This game plays faster than any other Halo game. I remember a lot more stalemates in H2A and H3 than I do in this game.

Are you really going to say you've noticed "very little" crouch walking with autos in high level h5?

 

Really?

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I have noticed VERY LITTLE slowed down gameplay and crouching with autos out in top level competitive gameplay. This game plays faster than any other Halo game. I remember a lot more stalemates in H2A and H3 than I do in this game.

This game is faster because you have a million different routes to everything and you can sprint and thrust and slide and clamber EVERYWHERE. And to say that radar doesn't promote campy play is just ridiculous. It's been true in every single iteration of the game this one is no different. The radar has a smaller radius which helps alleviate the issue but it's still an issue. Halo 5s radar isn't the same as past radars so of course it isn't as bad. As for stalemates that's map design not radar. As I've said before Halo 5 maps have a million routes and thy are very small maps as well. Couple that with all the movement options and it's near impossible to force a stalemate.

 

Also faster pace means what to you? Because this game averages very little kills per game compared to past titles.

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Are you really going to say you've noticed "very little" crouch walking with autos in high level h5?

 

Really?

 

Yes. A play or two here and there is not the same as "everyone is crouch walking all game with AR's out" like most people in here are claiming. Majority of the battles are a decent range fight while people are coming out of thrust/sprint, or from a distance. There's the occasional crouching with an AR/Storm/etc. but when you have a full team of professionals making call outs, that's going to happen still without radar. It will happen a little less without radar, but it will still happen often. Everyone came into this game with preconceived notions about radar and automatics (including myself), but upon actually watching some actual gameplay, seeing how it plays out, and opening our minds, a lot of us have seen that this game plays really well just the way it is. The storm rifle is a little too OP though and should be nerfed a little. 

 

Breakout is another story though, as that's not the best rotational playlist for HCS. More of a casual playlist to play with friends.

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I have noticed VERY LITTLE slowed down gameplay and crouching with autos out in top level competitive gameplay. This game plays faster than any other Halo game. I remember a lot more stalemates in H2A and H3 than I do in this game.

I've noticed many pros miss a chance to be aggressive because radar would give them away. Why would we deal with "very little" when we can deal with none? Remove radar. It's that simple.

 

H2A and H3's stalemates were caused by other reasons. I'm not even talking about full-on stalemates. Radar in H5 on a micro level prolongs the majority of engagements.

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Your experience is not that of a pros. Numbers mean so much more when you are a machine the way they are. Breakout is fluky. The flukiest competitive gametype we have ever had in competitive Halo. Trades give a random team the win for crying out loud. Melees are one hit kills. The gametype is not competitive enough to be played for big money. Other modes are much better.

The low TTK helps negate the almost insurmountable advantage that would be guaranteed by having shields and a numbers advantage. Trades should be patched if they are actually at the same time. One player dying first should undeniably give the other team the win. It isn't a true "trade" in those instances. For example, where both players melee each other at the same time, it does end in a tie (from personal experience). The game type is a modified version of CS:GO, Search and Destroy, and Paintball speedball. Those all do pretty well competitively. Your last 2 sentences are completely subjective. And the flukiness of the game type is purely based on recklessness and unstructured play. When you are organized with set plays, you can eliminate the "randomness". Melees being a one hit kill is in line with the positioning and stealth emphasis of the game type combined with lower TTKs.

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Breakout restricts your ability to just trade favorably when you hit the first shot because headshots are so valuable without shields. It rewards better shots, rather than simply hitting your target -somewhere- and having it give the same result as a headshot when your target still has their shields. Having shields means that the TTK would become too high and having a numbers advantage would become a death knell. No pro team up 4v3 or 4v2 would lose rounds if there were shields, at least not with the probability necessary for the game mode to be truly competitive. Shields also make the person carrying the single flag far too resilient, making that too reliable of a win condition when it is intended to force map movement or take advantage of map control with a numbers advantage (just look at the consistency a player can ram the flag in on Regret or Empire in the current nonsense that they call Arena Breakout and you can see why shields in Breakout are an impossibility.

 

When talking about other layers of skill, there is a large amount of cover in the map, alternate routes (especially on larger maps such as the ones we saw in the community breakout playlist), and, most notably, no radar. Radar wouldn't be a big deal if it was also not present in other game modes, but its presence in the other game modes places emphasis on the importance of it being left out of Breakout. The round-based design of Breakout also means that teams need to adjust strategies and have multiple plays designed in order to succeed on different maps. It isn't just acceptable to have a single setup like many teams to on maps like The Rig, even if teams do have a "default" setup that they use, similar to CS:GO.

 

So, in short, that is my brief version of why I find Breakout competitive, why the 300% health and no shields is necessary, and why the overall design of the game is generally skill-based. I don't see a problem with it emphasizing different skills than slayer, just like CTF or strongholds emphasize diffferent skills. Granted, I'm sure people don't like that it is "different" from a damage mechanics standpoint, but that is something that I can't argue. It's subjective. For me, it is a non-factor for the reasons I stated above, and others. I'm aware that I may be the minority, but I don't particularly care. And, again, I have a strong feeling that many pros do not like the mode because they do not put in the requisite time into succeeding in it, especially over 9 rounds.

 

Whether or not people agree with you, I appreciate the fact that you went into depth about without getting defensive or anything else. Good post.

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Breakout restricts your ability to just trade favorably when you hit the first shot because headshots are so valuable without shields. It rewards better shots, rather than simply hitting your target -somewhere- and having it give the same result as a headshot when your target still has their shields. Having shields means that the TTK would become too high and having a numbers advantage would become a death knell. No pro team up 4v3 or 4v2 would lose rounds if there were shields, at least not with the probability necessary for the game mode to be truly competitive. Shields also make the person carrying the single flag far too resilient, making that too reliable of a win condition when it is intended to force map movement or take advantage of map control with a numbers advantage (just look at the consistency a player can ram the flag in on Regret or Empire in the current nonsense that they call Arena Breakout and you can see why shields in Breakout are an impossibility.

I wasn't asking why you think the current breakout settings are the best incarnation.

 

I'm asking what breakout offers in terms of skill that isn't either matched or completely trumped by normal arena Halo.

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Snakebite specifically said that the pros were not asked en masse whether they liked breakout.

 

It was not a misuse of words, it was a straight up lie.

 

It doesn't make sense for him to risk a PR disaster just to support Breakout within HCS. This idea of Josh being some kind of puppet master is ridiculous, especially over something so trivial.

 

He said there was "no majority consensus for removing Breakout." A poor choice of words, as it makes it sound as if they've polled people, but not a straight up lie.

 

We should be pissed about them keeping Breakout in HCS, THAT'S bullshit. But not at Josh for posting where he stood on the issue.

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Have you considered the pros know more what they're talking about then a lot of people on this forum? Just because no radars and eating, sleeping, and breathing only using the BR has been how it is in the past, doesn't mean that that would be the best option in H5.

have you considered pros will want what's in their best interest?

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He said there was "no majority consensus for removing Breakout."

We had a dialogue with pros about Breakout (early in HWC, before Xmas break) and the feedback was split. A number of pros on top seeded teams said they wanted to keep it on the circuit, in part because they had put in the time to practice with competition in mind. There was not a majority in favor of removing.

 

That is what he said. There is very little ambiguity to the statement.

 

That is apparently NOT what happened.

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