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Joseph

[POLL] HCS Pro Player Feedback - Gametypes & Settings

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I really want to know who is making all the shitty choices. I have a guess though. You would think that Phil Spencer would put his foot down and tell 343 to get their shit together.

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I don't see how pros can support autos and radar in competitive play. Watching somebody spray somebody with a storm rifle is lame as hell... Bad for both players and spectators.

I brought my wife to London to watch the matches (and some sight seeing of course) and she never played Halo 5 but is an avid Halo player. She was able to dive right in to Arena settings in our playtests because the settings were exactly as she played in Reach and, to a lesser extent, Halo 3. She's 100% a noob in every way. She spams the AR, uses Armor Lock, and hates people who run away to regain their shield instead of fight it out but she loved watching the games because she got it instantly. Nothing felt foreign to her and she wanted to come home and try the things she saw. I know that's only one person but she's as casual as it gets for me.

 

Also, she hates Breakout. ;P

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Guys, please chill on @@GoldenboyFTW.
 
He's helped the competitive scene a lot, and especially Beyond grow and branch out in recent years. The guys been through the glory days and the gutter years of recent. He means well.

-----
Regarding Breakout, I posted it like this on Sunday in the Grand Finals: Imagine an incredible game of baseball with a team up 2-1, then in the 8th inning they steal bases for runs instead of normal play, then go back to normal baseball in the 9th. THIS IS BREAKOUT.

 

Like I said in the past, cool new gametype / party game. It isn't good for competitive play.
 

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I brought my wife to London to watch the matches (and some sight seeing of course) and she never played Halo 5 but is an avid Halo player. She was able to dive right in to Arena settings in our playtests because the settings were exactly as she played in Reach and, to a lesser extent, Halo 3. She's 100% a noob in every way. She spams the AR, uses Armor Lock, and hates people who run away to regain their shield instead of fight it out but she loved watching the games because she got it instantly. Nothing felt foreign to her and she wanted to come home and try the things she saw. I know that's only one person but she's as casual as it gets for me.

Also, she hates Breakout. ;P

At what point does needing to homogenize settings for the average player supercede what is most competitively viable though?

 

We're already seeing the issues with radar - camping, crouchwalking, and not engaging. Slowing the game down for people likely not even willing to get in the scene is hurting us.

 

I'm not saying "fuck the casuals", but we know no radar is better.

 

I respect your dedication, effort, and casting, but I'm gonna have to disagree here

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Yea I guess, pros do have really good headsets and communication so it's not as big for them but I still feel it's kinda unnecessary. I just don't like how I'll see someone like Snip3down start to flank and then have to crouch walk for 2 minutes to finally get a guy.

I'll definitely agree there. Certain situations like that I'm not a fan of. But I've gotten over it and I don't think it's going to change. Still fun to play and watch imo
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Josh responded a second time, he said he was informed of a Skype call that someone at 343 had with pros before the Xmas break ... either he was misinformed or the call wasn't with that many pros

 

And as I said, maybe this isn't Josh's lie, but at the same time he took it and ran with it based on what was apparently hot air. Any way you slice it, there is some major fault with the way 343 handles these matters internally - if it wasn't a straight up lie, then it's some form of gross negligence that would cost someone their job in a position with accountability.

 

Of course, there will be no accountability for this, so it almost doesn't matter.

 

I didn't take the original Holmes post to mean they had a formal yes/no poll.  Taking this argument from 0 to 60, like this is some Watergate, is groan worthy.

How does that make the situation more palatable? So instead of lying, they just had a couple pros say, "yeah I guess we like it", and ran with that as their justification?

 

Can we try a 6 month Lemon-persona hiatus?  Even when I agree with your platform, I end up rooting against you - I honestly would rather see it fail rather than ever be rewarded in the real world.

 

In and gone before the "we tried playing nice for years" - which is as much of a "misuse of words" as I've seen.

nah

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I think we should embrace the fact we are a toxic community, keep selection bias in mind and quietly sweep the results of question 2 and 3 under the rug.

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I think the real question here is when are they gonna remove Arena Breakout? Like it's not even played competitively I don't understand why it's been in so long.

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I'm just going to chime in here because people should know this. I gain nothing by defending 343 or siding with the community. I'm grateful to have done so much in my life that its led me to a good job at Twitch and I don't need to cast but I do it because I genuinely love it. I love Halo, I love the craziness, and I also love this community because of the incredible discussions we can have. What I don't love is when someone judges my character because it doesn't fit with their views. It's not even apart of my job at Twitch to be this involved with Halo but I do it because it's my passion. So no, it's not "how I remember it" it's how it is and whether you believe me or not is up to you to decide but I know who I am and why I'm doing this.

 

Such an emotional response. As someone who also has some passion about this game, I'm glad to have evoked some genuine sentiment on the subject of Halo. But if you dislike character-judging, then perhaps you might want to rethink your humanity. That's what having a set of principles, opinions, philosophies are about.

 

As for proclaiming the constituents of a multinational tech conglomerate's subdivision incapable of lying, you might want to rethink that.

Because Everybody lies.

 

And the 'just how you remember it' is obviously a slight at Dan Ayoub's infamous E3 2014 proclamation. Or akin to him and his LinkedIn page, have you already selectively forgotten any association with MCC?

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At what point does needing to homogenize settings for the average player supercede what is most competitively viable though?

 

We're already seeing the issues with radar - camping, crouchwalking, and not engaging. Slowing the game down for people likely not even willing to get in the scene is hurting us.

 

I'm not saying "fuck the casuals", but we know no radar is better.

 

I respect your dedication, effort, and casting, but I'm gonna have to disagree here

Not a problem dude. I think if we historically look at "Hardcore" settings we know that those playlists struggle to maintain a decent population in other Halo titles. Taking a look at Arena though, it's one of the most played playlists in H5 and while there are inaccuracies, like Arena Breakout, in the playlist it doesn't shut the casuals from the niche.

 

I'm not going to say that because of X cause we will see Y effect but thinking about how that difference in playlist settings changes how many play "competitive settings" is quite impactful. Versus how it was back then when it was just a smaller niche and everyone was too afraid to dive in.

 

I don't know if this will have an impact on viewership (COD is dealing with a similar, albeit much more extreme case than we are dealing with now) but we'll see where it goes.

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The responses to #2 and #3 are way worse than having breakout for 50% of the gametypes.

Should've asked them if they want bloom in the game. :trash:

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I just don't see how anyone watching these Qualifiers can say that it's not competitive. AR's and radar are still competitive, just not the same as back in the day. 

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How does that make the situation more palatable? So instead of lying, they just had a couple pros say, "yeah I guess we like it", and ran with that as their justification?

 

 

This wasn't some formal press release.  This was Josh Holmes coming to a community forum answering questions.  He was very likely wrong and/or misinformed.  But hardly justification to act like this is part of the big 343 conspiracy.  Same post, he says they will look into in in the future.  It's latching onto small bits that support your cause, while ignoring the rest, and pumping it full of horse steroids.

 

I can prefer Breakout be dropped, convey that thought, and still appreciate the consequences of them straight dropping their big experiment before the end of season 1 and why they would prefer to try and grow a bigger audience (even if it turns out to be fruitless) in spite of some pros.  

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Not a problem dude. I think if we historically look at "Hardcore" settings we know that those playlists struggle to maintain a decent population in other Halo titles. Taking a look at Arena though, it's one of the most played playlists in H5 and while there are inaccuracies, like Arena Breakout, in the playlist it doesn't shut the casuals from the niche.

I'm not going to say that because of X cause we will see Y effect but thinking about how that difference in playlist settings changes how many play "competitive settings" is quite impactful. Versus how it was back then when it was just a smaller niche and everyone was too afraid to dive in.

I don't know if this will have an impact on viewership (COD is dealing with a similar, albeit much more extreme case than we are dealing with now) but we'll see where it goes.

Keep in mind Arena is also one of the 5-6 playlists available in Arena MM, compared to the 8-9 other previous Halo games have shipped with. Of course it will have higher numbers; more players are evenly dispersed through broader playlists.

 

And if casuals aren't being shut out from it being a niche already, radar isn't going to drive the majority of them away.

 

I really want unified settings as well, but radar should belong to the social/unranked playlists. I respect casual and relaxed players but competitive gametypes need to meet competitve needs, and no radar is one of them. I haven't seen any improvement to the game having it in and feel it would resolve a lot of issues (not all) were it taken out, ie @@TheSimms talking about how autos are way too prevalent due to radar and camping. Not to say thats the only solution to the auto thing but it helps tremendously.

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I just don't see how anyone watching these Qualifiers can say that it's not competitive. AR's and radar are still competitive, just not the same as back in the day. 

Grifball is competitive too if you want to start that battle. 

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Not a problem dude. I think if we historically look at "Hardcore" settings we know that those playlists struggle to maintain a decent population in other Halo titles. Taking a look at Arena though, it's one of the most played playlists in H5 and while there are inaccuracies, like Arena Breakout, in the playlist it doesn't shut the casuals from the niche.

 

I'm not going to say that because of X cause we will see Y effect but thinking about how that difference in playlist settings changes how many play "competitive settings" is quite impactful. Versus how it was back then when it was just a smaller niche and everyone was too afraid to dive in.

 

I don't know if this will have an impact on viewership (COD is dealing with a similar, albeit much more extreme case than we are dealing with now) but we'll see where it goes.

This is almost certainly due to a lack of social playlists, and objective gametypes outside of the Team Arena playlist. It's really no surprise given how much 343 is trying to push it and the lack of "competition" it has within the game.

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Not a problem dude. I think if we historically look at "Hardcore" settings we know that those playlists struggle to maintain a decent population in other Halo titles. Taking a look at Arena though, it's one of the most played playlists in H5 and while there are inaccuracies, like Arena Breakout, in the playlist it doesn't shut the casuals from the niche.

 

I'm not going to say that because of X cause we will see Y effect but thinking about how that difference in playlist settings changes how many play "competitive settings" is quite impactful. Versus how it was back then when it was just a smaller niche and everyone was too afraid to dive in.

 

I don't know if this will have an impact on viewership (COD is dealing with a similar, albeit much more extreme case than we are dealing with now) but we'll see where it goes.

How do you know Arena is one of the most played?. We dont have population counter anymore. We don't know have ETA in:

- Ball

- Bomb

- Fileshare (theater, screenshots, forge, clips. Etc)

- community playlist

- Social Playlist

- Spectator Fix

- Removal of Overgrowth

 

I don't doubt the integrity of any individuals in 343, they just don't get it. And they will never get it, we have an unpolished product, from a very high budget company.

 

We love you Goldenboy and you are the best in the business at least for Halo.

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This wasn't some formal press release.  This was Josh Holmes coming to a community forum answering questions.  He was very likely wrong and/or misinformed.  But hardly justification to act like this is part of the big 343 conspiracy.  Same post, he says they will look into in in the future.  It's latching onto small bits that support your cause, while ignoring the rest, and pumping it full of horse steroids.

 

The rest of what? There is no "rest". This is a matter of whether or not we can trust what the developers say, and this is straight from the horse's mouth, especially given his comments that "nobody is trying to shove anything down your throats".

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This was the Answer Sheet: 

 

 

Question 1: Should Breakout be included in the Halo World Championship gametypes? 

 

Correct Answer: NO

 

 

Question 2: Should radar be disabled in the Halo World Championship settings?

 

Correct Answer: YES

 

 

Question 3: Should the automatic rifles be re-balanced in the Halo 5 sandbox? (AR, Storm Rifles,etc)

 

Correct Answer: YES

 

 

Bonus Question: Should Certain Affinity develop the next Halo? (This is purely for extra points, it will not hurt your grade if you do not answer correctly)

 

Correct Answer: YES

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This was the Answer Sheet: 

 

 

Question 1: Should Breakout be included in the Halo World Championship gametypes? 

 

Correct Answer: NO

 

 

Question 2: Should radar be disabled in the Halo World Championship settings?

 

Correct Answer: YES

 

 

Question 3: Should the automatic rifles be re-balanced in the Halo 5 sandbox? (AR, Storm Rifles,etc)

 

Correct Answer: YES

Too many pros must have cheated off of Ryanoob. 

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Not a problem dude. I think if we historically look at "Hardcore" settings we know that those playlists struggle to maintain a decent population in other Halo titles. Taking a look at Arena though, it's one of the most played playlists in H5 and while there are inaccuracies, like Arena Breakout, in the playlist it doesn't shut the casuals from the niche.

 

I'm not going to say that because of X cause we will see Y effect but thinking about how that difference in playlist settings changes how many play "competitive settings" is quite impactful. Versus how it was back then when it was just a smaller niche and everyone was too afraid to dive in.

 

I don't know if this will have an impact on viewership (COD is dealing with a similar, albeit much more extreme case than we are dealing with now) but we'll see where it goes.

I think historically we didn't see Halo's population struggle until Reach came out. Might want to look into "sprint" ground pound, clamber, thrust, ADS, spartan charge, slide, spartan chatter, bad maps, 3 gametypes, terrible weapon balancing, and incompetent development teams if population numbers are low. I'm just speculating though obviously no one on earth could ever divulge anything resembling what the population is (cough *50k) since 343 has hidden it from us. Oh those fkn geniuses. 

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This was the Answer Sheet: 

 

 

Question 1: Should Breakout be included in the Halo World Championship gametypes? 

 

Correct Answer: NO

 

 

Question 2: Should radar be disabled in the Halo World Championship settings?

 

Correct Answer: YES

 

 

Question 3: Should the automatic rifles be re-balanced in the Halo 5 sandbox? (AR, Storm Rifles,etc)

 

Correct Answer: YES

yay I got 100!

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Certain affinity should go no where near halo, ever.

 

Not after h2a and not after doom MP.

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