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Weekend Breakout Vs. Normal Breakout

New or old breakout  

54 members have voted

  1. 1. Should HCS be updated to new breakout settings

    • Yes
    • No, I think its fine like it is.


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What was everyones opinion? I really throughly enjoyed the new breakout game. Full shields helped balance between pistol/br. Only thing that i found that was some what annoying was the fact that the flag was TOOOOOO EASY to capture. I am hoping that they do a nice swap on the current HCS breakout to the "new and improved" breakout. Whats everyone think? 

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Repost because we shouldn't voting on one or the other. They both shouldn't exist and they both need fixes that the other has:

 

I'm going to throw this out there because I think people's newfound obsession with Arena Breakout is going to hamper this game in a few departments and cause damage in Breakout's potential (both Breakout/Arena Breakout) overall.

 

Arena Breakout and Breakout can't and shouldn't coexist. Similar situation as Reach TU Settings (Super Slayer vs. Team Slayer, divided Playlists, etc.) and Halo 4's abundance of Variants in matchmaking, it isn't healthy for the game as a whole.

 

Arena Breakout's Flaws

  • Few/No Power Weapons on Map to incentivize movement, setups, comebacks, etc.
  • Asymmetrical maps are debatably unbalanced, in a perfect world we would need the ability to switch sides every round, but implementing this on symmetrical maps would be disorienting
  • Small Symmetrical maps (Regret/Truth/Empire, arguably) are extremely linear and are mainly just 9 Rounds of Team Fighting happening way too quickly
  • Shields enforce team shooting, leaving little to no room for comebacks from an individual
  • Radar

Vanilla Breakout's Flaws

  • Linear maps that are LONG but not WIDE. Encounters happen slower than Arena Breakout but are always in the same locations (Trident Flag and Hydra, for example)
  • Instant Kill Grenades add a complete sense of randomness, and while there is skill in both learning made locations AND avoiding grenades, there is too much inconsistency to consider this competitively acceptable
  • Instant Kill Melees are also controversial and often are a 'cheesy' way to end gunfights (lunges making this an easy way out, much less skill oriented than a raw gunfight)
  • Few/no Power Weapons on maps, just like Arena Breakout. (The one exception to this complaint is Gambol, which has the dominant power item of Camo. Camo on this map FORCES movement and setups, requires teams to coordinate players, and allows for INSANE comebacks if you are down in numbers but have Camo)

 

​In my opinion, I think that simply replacing Breakout with Arena Breakout (in the HCS and Team Arena) is a MISTAKE. Both modes have things that the other requires, very badly at that. 

 

If Arena Breakout becomes a permanent playlist or anything of the sort, its going to damage the image of Breakout and the playlist populations as a whole. In my opinion, the best course of action for 343i would be to merge the two game types.

 

Breakout 2.0 (Universal)

  • Played on a combination of Breakout maps and Arena Maps. In the Breakout specific playlist, they can be numerous (All 5 Breakout Maps + handful of Arena Maps). In HWC/HCS/Team Arena, they can be hand selected based on which play best with Arena Breakout settings (I'll write out a list of what I think would work best below). This means that the resources that went into Breakout maps do not go to waste, and there is a newfound visual variety when playing Breakout
  • Radar Disabled. This is already an element of standard Breakout and would help improve A.B.'s settings.
  • Shields Enabled. While this inevitably will promote team-shooting, it removes the issues of Instant Grenades/Melees, and promotes uniformity amongst all Arena gameplay. The team-shooting aspect is a direct issue (I use the word issue subjectively) with H5's Sandbox, which is another topic in itself.
  • Weapon/Map Layout Reworked. In my opinion, every map should be receiving 2-3 items of interest based on their size. As an example, Plaza should have items in Nest/Garden for teams to contest over. Often its either a clash at Garden off of spawn or just a standoff of teams shooting cross map. Power Weapons or Powerups will alleviate standoffs, force movement, allow for comebacks, and even alleviate the team shooting issue (in minor cases, not overall). I discussed how I think Gambol is one of the best Breakout maps (will be even better without instant-nades), but it could be made even better by having a more valuable weapon where Shotgun is located. This is a trend across EVERY map, both Breakout and Arena. Rig could use more than just a Railgun, Coliseum/Regret/Empire could use more than just a Shotgun. Eden would be INCREDIBLE if there was a valuable weapon instead of Shotgun. You get the idea. More powerups across the entire map pool would also improve gameplay

I'm not going to go in depth about what weapons and powerups I think should go on each map and where, because that would require tons of testing (which we can't even do yet), but  hopefully you get the idea. Camo, Railgun, Rockets, Sniper are all powerful and if placed in the right way on the map would make Breakout extremely dynamic and unique.

 

And some brief stuff regarding the most competitive Breakout maps

 

 

As for HCS Maps I just thought I'd throw this out there because even if the modes aren't combined I think that the Breakout maps can still work with last weekend's Arena Breakout settings. In order of best to worst here are some of my picks, for either Arena Breakout or Breakout 2.0

 

  • Eden
  • Gambol
  • Plaza (w/ Weapons please)
  • Coliseum
  • Rig
  • Empire
  • Trident/Altitude/Truth

 

 

 

I wrote this post because across Beyond AND r/Halo, people are praising Arena Breakout to no end, when in reality it disappointed me and I believe that there is LOADS of untapped potential in the game type as a whole. Breakout is one of my most enjoyed game types in Halo 5 but I just want it to be better, which it can be. Slapping Arena Breakout as a replacement in the HCS isn't a good look, and having both game types in the Breakout playlist or having separate playlists is damaging for the game as a whole (as proven by Reach/4).

 

Obligatory @@Sal1ent tag for when I write novels, because I really hope someone at 343 understands that there is more to talk about behind the unanimous praise of Arena Breakout.

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Repost because we shouldn't voting on one or the other. They both shouldn't exist and they both need fixes that the other has:

 

I'm going to throw this out there because I think people's newfound obsession with Arena Breakout is going to hamper this game in a few departments and cause damage in Breakout's potential (both Breakout/Arena Breakout) overall.

 

Arena Breakout and Breakout can't and shouldn't coexist. Similar situation as Reach TU Settings (Super Slayer vs. Team Slayer, divided Playlists, etc.) and Halo 4's abundance of Variants in matchmaking, it isn't healthy for the game as a whole.

 

Arena Breakout's Flaws

  • Few/No Power Weapons on Map to incentivize movement, setups, comebacks, etc.
  • Asymmetrical maps are debatably unbalanced, in a perfect world we would need the ability to switch sides every round, but implementing this on symmetrical maps would be disorienting
  • Small Symmetrical maps (Regret/Truth/Empire, arguably) are extremely linear and are mainly just 9 Rounds of Team Fighting happening way too quickly
  • Shields enforce team shooting, leaving little to no room for comebacks from an individual
  • Radar

Vanilla Breakout's Flaws

  • Linear maps that are LONG but not WIDE. Encounters happen slower than Arena Breakout but are always in the same locations (Trident Flag and Hydra, for example)
  • Instant Kill Grenades add a complete sense of randomness, and while there is skill in both learning made locations AND avoiding grenades, there is too much inconsistency to consider this competitively acceptable
  • Instant Kill Melees are also controversial and often are a 'cheesy' way to end gunfights (lunges making this an easy way out, much less skill oriented than a raw gunfight)
  • Few/no Power Weapons on maps, just like Arena Breakout. (The one exception to this complaint is Gambol, which has the dominant power item of Camo. Camo on this map FORCES movement and setups, requires teams to coordinate players, and allows for INSANE comebacks if you are down in numbers but have Camo)

 

​In my opinion, I think that simply replacing Breakout with Arena Breakout (in the HCS and Team Arena) is a MISTAKE. Both modes have things that the other requires, very badly at that. 

 

If Arena Breakout becomes a permanent playlist or anything of the sort, its going to damage the image of Breakout and the playlist populations as a whole. In my opinion, the best course of action for 343i would be to merge the two game types.

 

Breakout 2.0 (Universal)

  • Played on a combination of Breakout maps and Arena Maps. In the Breakout specific playlist, they can be numerous (All 5 Breakout Maps + handful of Arena Maps). In HWC/HCS/Team Arena, they can be hand selected based on which play best with Arena Breakout settings (I'll write out a list of what I think would work best below). This means that the resources that went into Breakout maps do not go to waste, and there is a newfound visual variety when playing Breakout
  • Radar Disabled. This is already an element of standard Breakout and would help improve A.B.'s settings.
  • Shields Enabled. While this inevitably will promote team-shooting, it removes the issues of Instant Grenades/Melees, and promotes uniformity amongst all Arena gameplay. The team-shooting aspect is a direct issue (I use the word issue subjectively) with H5's Sandbox, which is another topic in itself.
  • Weapon/Map Layout Reworked. In my opinion, every map should be receiving 2-3 items of interest based on their size. As an example, Plaza should have items in Nest/Garden for teams to contest over. Often its either a clash at Garden off of spawn or just a standoff of teams shooting cross map. Power Weapons or Powerups will alleviate standoffs, force movement, allow for comebacks, and even alleviate the team shooting issue (in minor cases, not overall). I discussed how I think Gambol is one of the best Breakout maps (will be even better without instant-nades), but it could be made even better by having a more valuable weapon where Shotgun is located. This is a trend across EVERY map, both Breakout and Arena. Rig could use more than just a Railgun, Coliseum/Regret/Empire could use more than just a Shotgun. Eden would be INCREDIBLE if there was a valuable weapon instead of Shotgun. You get the idea. More powerups across the entire map pool would also improve gameplay

I'm not going to go in depth about what weapons and powerups I think should go on each map and where, because that would require tons of testing (which we can't even do yet), but  hopefully you get the idea. Camo, Railgun, Rockets, Sniper are all powerful and if placed in the right way on the map would make Breakout extremely dynamic and unique.

 

And some brief stuff regarding the most competitive Breakout maps

 

 

As for HCS Maps I just thought I'd throw this out there because even if the modes aren't combined I think that the Breakout maps can still work with last weekend's Arena Breakout settings. In order of best to worst here are some of my picks, for either Arena Breakout or Breakout 2.0

 

  • Eden
  • Gambol
  • Plaza (w/ Weapons please)
  • Coliseum
  • Rig
  • Empire
  • Trident/Altitude/Truth

 

 

 

I wrote this post because across Beyond AND r/Halo, people are praising Arena Breakout to no end, when in reality it disappointed me and I believe that there is LOADS of untapped potential in the game type as a whole. Breakout is one of my most enjoyed game types in Halo 5 but I just want it to be better, which it can be. Slapping Arena Breakout as a replacement in the HCS isn't a good look, and having both game types in the Breakout playlist or having separate playlists is damaging for the game as a whole (as proven by Reach/4).

 

Obligatory @@Sal1ent tag for when I write novels, because I really hope someone at 343 understands that there is more to talk about behind the unanimous praise of Arena Breakout.

Understandable. I think the reason that this playlist was put out there was because 343 wanted to see if people preferred one over the other. But i think you make some good points and am curious to see how this is going to play out! 

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The problems with power weapons on the maps is that they basically give an instant win for whichever team gets them as long as the player is half decent.  They should be an Advantage to the team that gets them, but not the sole deciding factor.  If your team gets rockets, you might as well just start the next round.

 

Power weapon proposal:  Power weapons should still be on the map, but with extremely limited ammo.  Rockets with 4 ammo is ridiculous.  It should be only 1 or 2.

Sniper should also only have one clip, not 3, etc.  To be fair, this critique mainly applies to the rockets.

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The problems with power weapons on the maps is that they basically give an instant win for whichever team gets them as long as the player is half decent.  They should be an Advantage to the team that gets them, but not the sole deciding factor.  If your team gets rockets, you might as well just start the next round.

 

Power weapon proposal:  Power weapons should still be on the map, but with extremely limited ammo.  Rockets with 4 ammo is ridiculous.  It should be only 1 or 2.

Sniper should also only have one clip, not 3, etc.  To be fair, this critique mainly applies to the rockets.

Exactly, this accompanied with radar turned off i think would make this one of the most fun gametypes for halo that has been made IMO. 

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Arena breakout needs some tweaks, but with the right power weapons arena breakout would still have some great clutch plays. 

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