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valaea

Rank All Halo Multiplayer Experiences on 1-10 Scale

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I also don't consider video games to be art in the slightest, at least in terms of multiplayer. Function trumps form here and I don't think that subjectivity when evaluating a piece of art should be used in the context of trying to measure a game's competitive merit.

Competitive merit is itself a somewhat subjective term as well because, like depth and meta, it's not particularly well defined. There are aspects which are a given such as neither team should start with any significant advantage over the other, elements of randomness outside of the players control should be kept to a minimum etc. However many aspects are debatable

 

For example it could be argued that the increased reliance on team work in titles like H2 makes the game more competitive than the more individually driven CE. Likewise, the opposite argument could be made as some people have been doing so in this thread.

 

I think that one of the best definitions would be that the higher the skill ceiling, the more competitive merit a game has. However, that still has the same problem that not every aspect of a game has a quantifiable and objective impact on the skill ceiling.

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It's hard for either of us to prove the impact that button combos have on the game.

Teamshooting gets forced into the game as the only viable strategy as a result of players not being able to distinguish themselves- in other words, when it is never viable for one person to take on more than one opponent. Button combos do not go far enough to allow an individual to distinguish themselves, which is why teamshooting has a stranglehold on halo 2.

 

This has nothing to do with the number of players in a game. It could be 2v2 or 8v8- as long as the quantifiable variables coded into the game design do not allow players the strength necessary for 1v2 (and beyond) scenarios to be viable under any circumstances, teamshooting will always define the game's depth.

 

2v2s, 3v3s, etc... in halo 2 will always favor the team which is teamshooting in every scenario. Teamshooting in CE 4s will not always, in every scenario, be the greatest strategy. Sometimes you will be punished for teamshooting in CE 4s.

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For example it could be argued that the increased reliance on team work in titles like H2 makes the game more competitive than the more individually driven CE.

There is no logical argument that can be made for that statement.

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There is no logical argument that can be made for that statement.

If that were true, then no team-based games would be competitive.

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h1: 9 (4v4 is actually quite shit in this game, unless you are just goofing on blood gulch with your friends. also, the off host/on host thing is really irritating. at this point i am not sure how many people have actually experienced this game to give it an actual rating, i'm going to be 26 next month and i was 11 when this game came out.)

h2: 9 (best 4v4 and ffa game. it was definitely not perfect though there was quite a lot of bullshit with melees not connecting and hit registration online was shaky)

h3: 7 (online 6, it was a solid game but there was no magic to it in my opinion. i believe that it was over developed. h2 and especially h1 were accidents.)

reach: 5 

reach nbns: 7 (maybe halo would not have died if reach was released like this, it was quite a playable game with amazing online, however, i had been out of the game for way too long to seriously get back into it at this point and i think a lot of people fell into this situation)

h4: 1 (literally returned after less than a week, i was so appalled)

h2 anniversary: 4 

h5: have not even played it

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CE - 10

Halo 2 - 8

Halo 3 - 8(so much different game types to play)

Halo Reach default - 3

Halo Reach post patch - 6

Reach zbns/mlg v7 - 8

Halo 4 - 5

Halo 5 - never played

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Teamshooting gets forced into the game as the only viable strategy as a result of players not being able to distinguish themselves- in other words, when it is never viable for one person to take on more than one opponent. Button combos do not go far enough to allow an individual to distinguish themselves, which is why teamshooting has a stranglehold on halo 2.

 

This has nothing to do with the number of players in a game. It could be 2v2 or 8v8- as long as the quantifiable variables coded into the game design do not allow players the strength necessary for 1v2 (and beyond) scenarios to be viable under any circumstances, teamshooting will always define the game's depth.

 

2v2s, 3v3s, etc... in halo 2 will always favor the team which is teamshooting in every scenario. Teamshooting in CE 4s will not always, in every scenario, be the greatest strategy. Sometimes you will be punished for teamshooting in CE 4s.

 

I dunno how you can possibly say this because a player who can double and quad shot consistently beats 2 players all the time. You just keep regurgitating the same points while failing to acknowledge the skill gap present with button combos.

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If that were true, then no team-based games would be competitive.

Were strictly talking about halo games and how they stack up against CE.

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H1: 8.5

H2: 9

H3: 9 (This was the best non competitive Halo. Infection/BTB was the shit)

HR: 5.5

H4: 4

H5: 7.5

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I dunno how you can possibly say this because a player who can double and quad shot consistently beats 2 players all the time.

 

no they dont, not against good players at least. no doubt i could go into team slayer and quad shot two people shooting at me at the same time, but i hope that's not the kind of situation you are talking about here. i legitimately had full command of quad shotting, as in i could aim it as i would shooting regularly and execute it 95/100 times. and in most circumstances it was not even worth going for outside of ffas.

 

on top of that there were maybe 100-200 people in the game tops who could do this.. retroactively i feel like people imagine h2 as this game where people were just running around quad shotting all the time, and it was never like this. a lot of the best people in the game never even used it.

 

as for the other button combos, if you couldn't execute them every single time you were simply shit at the game. it was a non factor at a competitive level, all it did was open the possibilities of what you could do, which made the game more fun and dynamic, but at the same time everyone else could do it too.

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I dunno how you can possibly say this because a player who can double and quad shot consistently beats 2 players all the time. You just keep regurgitating the same points while failing to acknowledge the skill gap present with button combos.

I don't deny there is a skill gap with h2's button combos. Objectivley speaking though, they do not grant individuals enough room to distinguish themselves in order to have a meaningful impact on the game- h2 is always reduced to teamshooting even with button combos present.

 

Button combos allow good players to seperate themselves from bad players. However, they do not allow good players to seperate themselves from great players. We can validate this by measuring objective quantitative variables coded into h2's game design.

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CE - 8.5
It's basically Quake-lite
 
H2 - 7.5
Aiming was stupid easier but the MM was solid
 
H3 - 7.4
It was more "accessible" than H2 but it made up for it with Forge+Custom Games+Theater
 
Reach (vanilla) - 5.2
Armor abilities
 
Reach v7 - 7.8
343's only worthwhile achievement
 
H4 - 4
Infinity settings :)
 
H5 - 5
I'm still confident that this entire game was made around Warzone

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no they dont, not against good players at least. no doubt i could go into team slayer and quad shot two people shooting at me at the same time, but i hope that's not the kind of situation you are talking about here. i legitimately had full command of quad shotting, as in i could aim it as i would shooting regularly and execute it 95/100 times. and in most circumstances it was not even worth going for outside of ffas.

 

on top of that there were maybe 100-200 people in the game tops who could do this.. retroactively i feel like people imagine h2 as this game where people were just running around quad shotting all the time, and it was never like this. a lot of the best people in the game never even used it.

 

as for the other button combos, if you couldn't execute them every single time you were simply shit at the game. it was a non factor at a competitive level, all it did was open the possibilities of what you could do, which made the game more fun and dynamic, but at the same time everyone else could do it too.

You could quad shoot 95% of the time perfectly. ..but just decided not to.

 

Oh. Ok.

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h5: have not even played it

 

 

The game is really not bad at all, get on some custom games lists and run Arena with a party, you might be pleasantly surprised ... it's like $20-$25 on Amazon

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You could quad shoot 95% of the time perfectly. ..but just decided not to.

 

Oh. Ok.

 

why risk a 5% chance of fucking up what is a guaranteed kill? not to mention the fact that actually doing the motion required some sacrifice of mobility in game, it's pretty awkward and the timing is relatively strict. sure i would do it if i were down shots, but unless something extremely unusual happened it wasn't going to turn the fight.

 

yes, i consciously decided not to quad shot in 9/10 situations in 4's and 7/10 situations in ffa, and i can assure you i could do it like breathing.

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why risk a 5% chance of fucking up what is a guaranteed kill? sure i would do it if i were down shots, but unless something extremely unusual happened it wasn't going to turn the fight.

 

yes, i consciously decided not to quad shot in 9/10 situations in 4's and 7/10 situations in ffa.

That makes no sense. Like, literally none.

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That makes no sense. Like, literally none.

 

find some event vod from eli, who was the best at quad shotting in halo 2. count the number of times you see him quad shot through a series, i bet you'll still be on your first hand.

 

going around trying to quad shot everything is like rushing br tower from top middle by yourself when the other team has 4 up and a full setup over and over again, it isn't the optimal thing to do.

 

if you were an average player in competitive h2, lets say like lb rd 4 in am, and had a quad shot button in your controller, you would still be absolutely worthless in a 4s game at a high level. 80% of being good at competitive halo has to do with decision making and communication.

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find some event vod from eli, who was the best at quad shotting in halo 2. count the number of times you see him quad shot through a series, i bet you'll still be on your first hand.

 

going around trying to quad shot everything is like rushing br tower from top middle by yourself when the other team has 4 up and a full setup over and over again, it isn't the optimal thing to do.

 

if you were an average player in competitive h2, lets say like lb rd 4 in am, and had a quad shot button in your controller, you would still be absolutely worthless in a 4s game at a high level. 80% of being good at competitive halo has to do with decision making and communication.

If you could quad shot 95% of the time with no issues then there's no risk involved.

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If you could quad shot 95% of the time with no issues then there's no risk involved.

 

no risk being involved would be executing it 100% of the time, also like i said it affects your movement, which i believe nullifies the advantage gained with shooting faster. like i said you will only see it in 4's when someone was in a situation they couldn't win otherwise. in ffa it's a different story.

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The game is really not bad at all, get on some custom games lists and run Arena with a party, you might be pleasantly surprised ... it's like $20-$25 on Amazon

 

i really really dislike all the movement bullshit in new fps games, the only game i thought it worked in was when it was just sprint in CoD 4 and the expansions or whatever you want to call the rest of them

 

the only fps game thats been released this decade that i like is cs go kek

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no risk being involved would be executing it 100% of the time, also like i said it affects your movement, which i believe nullifies the advantage gained with shooting faster. like i said you will only see it in 4's when someone was in a situation they couldn't win otherwise. in ffa it's a different story.

You said you could execute it 95/100 without it effecting you. That's why I was calling BS.

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I'm really doubting you could quad shot 95% of the time.

 

But anyway, if you're against another player that can quad shot, then if you can do it 95% of the time you should do it because of the risk that they will turn and try to quad shot you.

 

You say only 100-200 people can even do it that consistently.. isn't that a testament to the skill it requires?

 

And yes I understand it's not used all the time, because many times you don't have a clear shot on someone for that long in Halo 2 as people are bunkered somewhere. Positioning and shit matters more especially with 4v4 setups on certain maps. But if we're talking 2v2 with more movement and spacing then I could see it being used more if there's more open duels. And positioning and teamwork is required in Halo 1 as well. You don't see people running around in the open in Halo 1 either because of how quickly you get punished, so no it's not advisable to ever rely on gun skill alone in either game.

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