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VinnyMendoza

Halo 5 Sales/NPD Results Discussion and the Future of Halo

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I just wish someone that actually experienced and understood Halo during CE through Halo 3 could become the lead MP designer. A lot of the mistakes and things people complain about are issues bungie had already solved. There are many steps backward in random places because they seemingly struggle to even understand that what they're doing sometimes is a problem and its already been fixed before by the guys that came before them. They need to take the experience we had, the whole experience, and expand from there without forgetting things. They just neglect features and repeat mistakes that were already solved more often than they actually do something dumb. Basically they can't handle the sheer size of what bungie developed and its many facets all at once. That could be the management issues people are starting to talk about though. Hopefully we get competent developers that can pick up where bungie left off and move forward instead of struggling to provide the bare minimum in a lot of scenarios this time. I kind of doubt it though they're 0 for 2 with this problem. They always forget a lot of somethings

 

Its pretty understandable though. The developer their company was built to emulate was one of the most technically talented in the business. Its not really a surprise when they don't live up to them

In Hardy we trust.

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Its pretty understandable though. The developer their company was built to emulate was one of the most technically talented in the business. Its not really a surprise when they don't live up to them

 

I disagree, only due to the fact that they've hardly been trying to emulate Classic Halo.

 

I'd argue that the only thing that 343i has tried to emulate(gameplay wise) in their Halo games are the longer TTKs relative to other modern shooters. They've been throwing shit at a wall, and hoping that it sticks with everything else.

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I disagree, only due to the fact that they've hardly been trying to emulate Classic Halo.

 

I'd argue that the only thing that 343i has tried to emulate(gameplay wise) in their Halo games are the longer TTKs relative to other modern shooters. They've been throwing shit at a wall, and hoping that it sticks with everything else.

I don't even mean in a gameplay sense only. They can't even provide a UI that has parity with H3 or Reach. Their very best effort as a studio is the patch that removed bloom from Reach imo and that is only because they improved on a product that was already created by someone else. Sure you can say Reach suffered from problems with MM skill matching and teams matching randoms and that was a problem but that has only been carried forward instead of being totally fixed in H4, MCC, or H5. They literally cannot even copy (MCC) without failing in some regard. I'm not even saying H5 is a bad game either. I'm just saying they can't compete. They can not make the Halo that a lot of people want. They might do their own cool thing like they have with esports (I do enjoy this) but they'll never be as good at being bungie as bungie was. I would honestly be happier for 343 if they could just do their own thing without worrying about the Halo brand at all.

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Honestly. Go play H3 on 360 after playing H5. The game feels clunky and unresponsive. 

 

Halo 3's aiming is equally as garbage as H5's. 

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Halo 5's poor sales can largely be explained by the following:

  • 343's track record: 343 really did have a glorious start, they were considered the savior of halo, with the introduction of No Bloom and No Sprint. Many thought they would bring halo back to it's roots and former glory. Sadly this has not happened. With the introduction of Halo 4 after 3 months the population had dropped by more than 100 thousand. After six months it hovered at around 60,000 on a weekend and then at the end of its relevant cycle it was around 40,000. This was unheard of in terms of halo but then like a phoenix they rose from the ashes and promised a Halo MCC, with multiplayer's EXACTLY as we remember them. The community was pumped, every halo fan was delighted. 343 were once again being praised, but yet again they didn't deliver. Say what you want about halo 4 but at least it was functional on release. The MCC set a new low for the franchise. The game was sold to millions in a broken state, where consumers across the globe had no warnings. Coupled with this was their lackadaisical approach to solving the issue, they should have taken back every copy sold and return it customers when the game was fully functional, did they NO! They made the customer wait for them to deliver on something they had already purchased. Just think of the hypocrisy behind that a customer paid for a fully functional product and got a broken product and weren't allowed to refund the game.  The game never lived to its hype and crushed many halo fans, only the truly die hard fans, actually waited for 343 to get the game working. This was an utter disaster, it ruined 343's reputation and that is something extremely difficult to rebuild, it is ten times harder to entice a dissatisfied customer back then it is to retain one. I would say this was the most damming aspect of halo 5's sales. I cant imagine any company succeeding if given the exact same failures.
  • Xbox 1 shortcomings: Halo is unfortunately a xbox one exclusive, meaning it will never have as large of a following as say call of duty, destiny or any other first perosn shooter that is on multiple platforms. This combined with the the shambles that was the marketing of the xbox 1 spelled disaster for halo. I really think people underestimate how significant this fuck up was, microsofts marketing department completely shit the bed, they misunderstood their market, and genuinely made their console unappealing, hell their were campaigns against it for christ sake. Inevitably the PlayStation has outsold the Xbone easily meaning Halo has a much smaller potential market than it had on the 360. So before we even discuss Halo's mechanics and it's evolution we already have the following:  
  1. Customers feeling betrayed by the developer and left with a sour taste after the MCC
  2. Halo having a much smaller market than previously due to Microsoft's failures.

 

So you see this really is not about halo 5, HALO 5 could not have possibly sold as many copies as its predecessors as the conditions in the market place prevented it from doing so. No game would have attracted a large scale audience had they had to endure the same exact same conditions. The failures of both the MCC and the Xbone have tarnished halo 5 and its potenital.

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Halo 3's aiming is equally as garbage as H5's. 

don't have a problem with either personally but they definitely feel different enough to where i get any complaints levied against them.

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The main reason is that the XB1 has done terribly as a console.  Other factors are definitely relevant, but this is the main issue ... I realize that H3 sold better on roughly the same amount of systems (~15-20 million) but there was very little competition in 2007 for FPS games on console.  Similarly, H1 sold so well on console because (1) it was amazing and (2) there was even less competition in 2001-02.

No competition, huh?

 

Call of Duty 4 (2007)

Call of Duty WaW (2008)

Call of Duty MW2 (2009)

Call of Duty BO1 (2010)

 

Gears of War (2006)

Gears of War 2 (2008)

 

Halo 3 maintained a 6 figure population from 2007-2010 until the launch of Halo: Reach with multiple classic games released during its relevancy. Here's a video from 2007 and here's another video from 2010 to prove my point.

 

Additionally, World of Warcraft was one of the go-to PC games during that era and while WoW had originally launched in 2004, Blizzard released two of its greatest expansions in 2007 and 2008. (TBC & WoTLK)

 

Edit: Just realized I quoted a post from 2015. Either way, logic prevails.  ;)

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.... Josh made halo 4 rofl

Meh. His mindset is different now. Microsoft wanted a cod clone with h4, I feel like 343i had more say in h5.

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Meh. His mindset is different now. Microsoft wanted a cod clone with h4, I feel like 343i had more say in h5.

 

No that's not true at all actually if you read developer commentary.

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Halo having a much smaller market than previously due to Microsoft's failures.

 

I don't think that's consistent with the facts. Despite Microsoft's monumental failure at launch, what a lot of people don't seem to realize is that the Xbox One is outpacing the 360 in terms of consoles sold (or, at the very least WAS up through the end of 2015) and that is WITHOUT the RRoD situation that no doubt resulted in a lot of replacement systems sold. It only looks like shit, because of how much better the PS4 has been selling, not because it's doing horribly on its own. That does not mean a smaller market for its exclusives. Halo 5 launched roughly the same amount of time into the Xbone's lifespan as Halo 3 did into the Xbox 360's and it had a larger install base of potential customers. I think that the reality is simply that fewer people who are buying Xboxes at this point are interested in new Halo games.

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