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VinnyMendoza

Halo 5 Sales/NPD Results Discussion and the Future of Halo

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The main reason is that the XB1 has done terribly as a console.  Other factors are definitely relevant, but this is the main issue ... I realize that H3 sold better on roughly the same amount of systems (~15-20 million) but there was very little competition in 2007 for FPS games on console.  Similarly, H1 sold so well on console because (1) it was amazing and (2) there was even less competition in 2001-02.

 

COD4 was MASSSSSIVE and released a month after Halo 3 so your argument is completely false.

 

And yes, Halo CE was a pioneer of console shooters. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark existed but paled in comparison. That's the kind of revolutionary game Halo needs again to get to the top. Games like Halo 2 and 3, while I found them quite flawed in many ways, continued the legacy of revolutionary features.

 

Warzone is not good enough.

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COD4 was MASSSSSIVE and released a month after Halo 3 so your argument is completely false.

 

And yes, Halo CE was a pioneer of console shooters. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark existed but paled in comparison. That's the kind of revolutionary game Halo needs again to get to the top. Games like Halo 2 and 3, while I found them quite flawed in many ways, continued the legacy of revolutionary features.

Warzone is not good enough.

There's really not much else they can do, honestly. Halo invented things for consoles, but everything's been done now. We don't need revolutionary Halo's, we need evolutionary ones. Otherwise we get the gap from H2 to H1

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Jawshe you pretty much nailed it in your first post. How come we can see this shit plain as day but 343/MS can't? Maybe these godawful sales figures will wake their asses up.

 

 

 

And like Lemon said above... I know this sounds selfish but 343i needs to cut the bullshit and get back to the core of Halo and forget chasing the casual in terms of the core gameplay experience. We've been arguing this from day 1 but they don't care. They sit in their confirmation bias bubble. They get terrible numbers from the beta and spin it like it was huge. They get info from their feedback and say shit like "89% OF PLAYERS WANT SPRINT!" while failing to capture

 

1. The number of players who actually say sprint/no sprint is a dealbreaker, and

 

2. Failing to capture players who have abandoned Halo and aren't participating in these surveys anymore.

 

They also fail to explain the benefits of sprint or no sprint to people and just ask a face value opinion. You ask people who don't know shit about Halo, then yes they will say "Yeah sure put sprint in, what's the harm, every other game has it". So their opinion cannot be counted as highly because they don't even think about these issues and what makes a game "feel" bad. Most casual people cannot pick up on why Halo "feels" bad, they just know something about it feels un-fun and quit. That's what happened to Halo 4.

 

They need to fire up the base of Halo supporters. Maybe 2% of us here were legitimately "fired up" about Halo 5 on the same level of Halo 2 or 3. They need to cater to the core with revolutionary features while retaining the basics in terms of gameplay. Make it a solid, uncompromising competitive game to get the competitive players fired up about it and spread the word. Then add in features that revolutionize the social space. Add a CUSTOM GAME BROWSER with SETTING FILTERS. There is a GIGANTIC scene of casual players who like to play fun custom gametypes... why do we not have a custom game browser for these people??? Instead they rely on 3rd party websites, forums or facebook groups. It's pathetic and archaic. This is just one idea I have to fire up the casual base of Halo fans.

 

As Jawshe said, give Warzone a TRUE "WOW" factor! Make it bigger than Battlefield 1942. Put in Scarabs and longswords and all kinds of crazy awesome shit! If they announced that -I- would have been pumped for it!

 

 

And you definitely don't leave out BTB and forge at launch, and you DEFINITELY do not cut split screen for Christ's sake! There are hundreds of thousands of people who engaged on facebook (likes/comments) about the news stories of split screen being cut. Many people commenting there and on reddit saying they were seriously bummed out and couldn't believe it.

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There's really not much else they can do, honestly. Halo invented things for consoles, but everything's been done now. We don't need revolutionary Halo's, we need evolutionary ones. Otherwise we get the gap from H2 to H1

 

We need revolutionary FEATURES and modes. Bungie shows the kind of revolutionary thinking in this regard. 343i completely fails at it. You say there's nowhere to go from here because you're not paid to think of these things. Look at what Bungie continues to do.

 

Imagine if Bungie stuck around? I guarantee they would have just done a Destiny type game but in the Halo universe. Can you imagine how absolutely massive that would have been? Destiny is already massive, but you slap the Halo IP on that shit? Would have been unbelievably huge. Bungie fucks up competitive settings sure, and the Destiny story was terrible, but they GET SOCIAL and what makes people buy and stay in games for years!

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I disagree with people saying a close remake of a game like Halo CE, 2 or 3 would create loads of success for the franchise. I honestly think it has to do with the customer base the companies are dealing with. It seemed to me that back in Halo's prime it was really the only big shooter that caught consumers attention. Sure COD was there but didn't go mainstream until COD4. Do I think Halo Reach completely killed the franchise? YES 100%. But I think if they released a game similar to Halo CE, 2 or 3 in the current FPS console market it would do awful. All these young kids know is that in COD they can at least get a couple kills, use cool guns, get some cool kill streaks and watch their favorite personalities (because CoD has so many with their Youtube success) stream any day. I actually think Halo does worse because it is difficult to be good. Young kids want instant success these days and back when all of the people here were playing Halo CE or Halo 2 or even Halo 3 there weren't many instant success games that were available. Maybe I'm crazy but ask your little cousin, little brother or any young kid why he likes playing Call of Duty and not Halo.

 

Ps - I actually really enjoy Halo 5 and think they did a great job with the game. Dedicated servers make my experience so much more satisfying and, although it needs some work, the sandbox is pretty well balanced. As the months continue I think we will find pro players and average joes discovering new ways to play the game and strafe styles incorporating thruster and crouching that we have never seen before. I like Halo 5 and I'm not afraid to say it.

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Nah dude, they're gonna try to spin this as "no one likes arena gameplay in 2015" and move Halo even farther away from its core.

 

That's worth saving for Halo 6: Battlefield.

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All I'm saying is that if you look at the most popular Halo game of all time, you'll notice that it's also the only one that actually stayed somewhat similar to the one before it.

 

Pretty much. Instead of getting Halo 1 or 2 or even 3 and saying "How do we refine this to be a better shooter, fix what's wrong, improve what's good" they got Halo 4 and did that. Well Halo 4 was absolute trash and Halo 5 is a much better game, but Halo 4 is no worthy benchmark to improve on. 

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We need revolutionary FEATURES and modes. Bungie shows the kind of revolutionary thinking in this regard. 343i completely fails at it. You say there's nowhere to go from here because you're not paid to think of these things. Look at what Bungie continues to do.

 

Imagine if Bungie stuck around? I guarantee they would have just done a Destiny type game but in the Halo universe. Can you imagine how absolutely massive that would have been? Destiny is already massive, but you slap the Halo IP on that shit? Would have been unbelievably huge. Bungie fucks up competitive settings sure, and the Destiny story was terrible, but they GET SOCIAL and what makes people buy and stay in games for years!

Destiny is a shit comparison, it keeps its community through artificial means like the RNG system. Hardly "revolutionary".

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It is comforting, though, to know that "it can't get any worse" actually, finally, stopped with H4.

 

The fact that that is a valid statement hurts.

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343 has consistently shit the bed with Halo so it's not really a surprise.  Halo 4 was awful and MCC literally didn't work.  Halo 5 doesn't look appealing either.  

 

Personal experience from a poor university student: 

- No Xbox One yet, didn't care about the exclusives 

- BO3 comes out, bought first day of release for 360 (love it btw)

- Fallout 4 comes out, need Xbox One asap omg!1111

 

Halo 5 came out before both of these games and I could not have given any less fucks.  

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If it doesn't show digital sales than it really doesn't matter. Anyone else I know IRL that bought Halo 5 got it digitally besides me.

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This argument is easily proven wrong so since I have done so over the last 5 years I will not list other games that were huge from that era. To try and convince me that other games that had huge followings did not exist in 2001-2010 is literally the most uninformed and utter repugnant bullshit anybody can argue, and with all due respect I have to be blunt and say I'm sick of seeing it.  

 

 

I wasn't clear, I meant console FPS games ... I loved Goldeneye and Perfect Dark (along with all my friends) and we transitioned to H1 / H2.  There were not other quality FPS games on console until 2007-08, imo, and even then CoD 4 wasn't that impressive (or at least, H3 was more fun) 

 

 

anyway I agree completely with what Vinny says above ... H5 needed a "wow" factor and BTB with a few more players and a few campaign enemies (which is still somehow less fun than Titanfall attrition) does not = wow.  

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343s business plan for Halo:

 

Release a game with the Halo name on it. 99% of Halo players will buy it on that fact alone.

 

Drastically change gameplay to draw in new players. Old players upset that gameplay is still a huge change from core Halo? Oh well, already got their money.

 

Is that not a fair assessment?

 

If the sales are as low as some of you guys think, it's because Halo is dying and has competitors. They still made as much money as possible with what they were given, regardless of sales figures.

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All I'm saying is that if you look at the most popular Halo game of all time, you'll notice that it's also the only one that actually stayed somewhat similar to the one before it.

In that H2 and H3 were the iterations of Halo known as Halo Team Shooter... I tend to agree, but I believe there is far more to it.

 

The skill gap was at its sweet spot.

 

The 50 rank system was simple, functional, far more accurate than anything else in halo, predictable, and rewarding.

 

The sandbox wasn't crowded.

 

And my favorite, Double XP weekend.

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The 50 rank system was simple, functional, far more accurate than anything else in halo, predictable, and rewarding.

 

The only reason I prefer the current system to the 1-50 is there is diversity at the top level (assuming the current system is working as intended). I would however be all for a 1-50 system, that when you hit 50 you get a visible ELO similar to Onyx in the current system that further differentiates 50s. I just remember 50's in halo 3 were a crapshoot not knowing if they were actually good or not. Ofc I don't have the same time to dedicate to gaming as I used to so this wouldn't affect me in the least haha.

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Destiny is a shit comparison, it keeps its community through artificial means like the RNG system. Hardly "revolutionary".

I disagree. Destiny isn't a great game but they did a great job with usability of interfaces and partnering up and social hubs. It also hit a sweetspot to appeal to a lot of people. And you can hop on for a mission or two or you can burn hours and hours on it. Either works. That's why it's so popular. Honestly half the fun I get out of destiny is just doing something brainless with my friends to keep our hands busy while we shoot the shit.

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I wasn't clear, I meant console FPS games ... I loved Goldeneye and Perfect Dark (along with all my friends) and we transitioned to H1 / H2. There were not other quality FPS games on console until 2007-08, imo, and even then CoD 4 wasn't that impressive (or at least, H3 was more fun)

 

 

anyway I agree completely with what Vinny says above ... H5 needed a "wow" factor and BTB with a few more players and a few campaign enemies (which is still somehow less fun than Titanfall attrition) does not = wow.

COD4 was hyped to shit and was top 2 on live and psn for years iirc. I actually jumped ship to it. COD4 was immensely popular and really kicked off the COD money making machine.

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I disagree. Destiny isn't a great game but they did a great job with usability of interfaces and partnering up and social hubs. It also hit a sweetspot to appeal to a lot of people. And you can hop on for a mission or two or you can burn hours and hours on it. Either works. That's why it's so popular. Honestly half the fun I get out of destiny is just doing something brainless with my friends to keep our hands busy while we shoot the shit.

Expanding on this, I mean halo could have been this, and then crucible could have been a real competitive halo experience without compromise for casuals since they'd all be playing the mmo campaign. Then you could have had a legit esport on top of an immensely popular game.

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Aren't these NPD numbers only for the month of October? Halo 5 came out on the 28th. It literally only had 3 days of time on these charts. Couple that with the fact that October is always a poor month for video game sales due to November and Black Friday.

 

In fact, I saw a post on Reddit the other day and Halo 5 was the best selling game on any console in October DESPITE only having 3 days to chart.

 

TLDR; Neogaf is a terrible website to get any kind of unbiased information on. Don't overreact to charts with no context.

 

EDIT: also would like to point out that the Xbox One sales were up 81% over last October.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2015/11/12/the-best-selling-games-for-october-announced

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My 0.02 on getting Halo out of its ditch and back on the rise.

 

Honestly, the core gameplay just needs to be fun again. That could mean going back to H2-3 style gameplay, it could mean adopting CE-style mechanics, it could even mean becoming a class-based shooter. Simply put, I disagree with this forum's consensus that 'different = inherently bad'. The changes Reach, 4 and 5 brought aren't bad because they're outside of Halo's core (which itself is a stupid, completely subjective buzzword), they're bad because they're not fun. They're fucking frustrating. From just a common sense perspective, I can't see anyone - casual or competitive - enjoying losing gun battles from Bloom, dying to an Incineration Cannon from RNG ordnance, or trying to track the movement of Spartans that can boost, glide and slide fucking everywhere.

Of course it's true that player expectations dictate that there should be some continuity between titles, but I'm not saying turn Halo into a turn-based game. I just think Halo can still thrive if it had changes that make sense with the sandbox, add depth and don't frustrate the player. H1 or H2/3 clone or something completely new, I think the most important aspect is that the game needs to be fun in order to get Halo out of its ditch. And to everyone saying 'H1/2/3-style games don't appeal to kids in the CoD market anymore'. Well no shit, that's the CoD market. Make a fun enough game that aims for its own niche (i.e. not H4 or H5, which I think many would agree pander to CoD kids to varying extents), and it'll inevitably have its own fanbase.

 

The complementary features on the other hand, don't just need to be exceptional (and functional *cough* 343 *cough*), but they need to be innovative. This stuff is key to longevity, but furthermore it facilitates sub-communities and is a great selling point in reviews. Halo 5 should've not only had a working Forge, Fileshare, Theater & Spectator mode at launch, it should have a custom mission editor (make your own missions/firefight scenarios), custom games server browser, and heck, why not throw in a fucking sound editor where you can record sounds from Theater and mix them up to make dubstep-like jams? What about in-built montaging tools, where you can apply filters, special camera movements, captions & title graphics etc.? In-depth stats not only on a website, but in-game? I could go on for days. Innovation in game features is needed to make Halo rise to the top again.

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Add a CUSTOM GAME BROWSER with SETTING FILTERS. There is a GIGANTIC scene of casual players who like to play fun custom gametypes... why do we not have a custom game browser for these people??? Instead they rely on 3rd party websites, forums or facebook groups. It's pathetic and archaic. This is just one idea I have to fire up the casual base of Halo fans.

I've been asking for this since 2004.

 

In any case, with all of the other AAA competition these days, I think there's only one thing that can truly save Halo.

 

Remake Halo 2. Not remaster, remake. Make a proper sequel to Halo 1. Halo 1 2.0, so to speak.

 

There was a ton of stuff cut from Halo 2 because Bungie mismanged their development time (just like they did with Destiny). And the whole thing has an unpolished vibe to it (though it's obviously playable, unlike It-Which-Will-Not-Be-Named-By-343).

 

Everything after Halo 1 no longer exists. Rewind to 2004, and develop again with today's tech. Done.

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All I'm saying is that if you look at the most popular Halo game of all time, you'll notice that it's also the only one that actually stayed somewhat similar to the one before it.

Exactly. Products like the Iphone, Ipad, Samsung Galaxy Phones, CoD , Battlefield(except Hardline) have been so successful just by making the same thing as before and making it better, adding stuff here and there without deviating from the core experience of each product.

 

Dont get why it's so hard for Halo to do the same. 

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