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Difference between competitive and trying to get more casual

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Way too often have we been hearing since Halo 5 came out that we need to make our rules and competitive structure closer to the casuals so more people are interested in playing Halo and watching Halo.

I would first like somebody to look at the actual daily individual player base of halo in arena compared to MLG playlists back in Reach when CoD was dominating, not so much Halo 3 because at the time Halo was the see all and be all. 

 

Making our settings more casual doesn't make more people want to play or watch all it does is alienate the already continued fans who have been loyal to the series and will continue to be loyal compared to us trying to receive some magical CoD fanbase that aren't coming ever.

If we are trying to attract CoD fans who religiously will never touch anything else then we are wasting our time, why would we neglect a fanbase that has been loyal for the highs and the lows of this game just to attract some part time fans that will go back to the next CoD anyway?

 

The comparison I hear so often is "well smite, dota, cs and LoL all have the same experience in casual as they do in competitive". And my rebuttal would be that all the MOBAs are made to be like that with one map and one gametype, it's made to be casual and competitive so those don't compare to a FPS with multiple gametypes like flag, KotH, Slayer, Oddball and Bomb. And in CS their casual is their competitive because of how the game was made back in 1999 when every online shooter was made for only competitive just like Unreal and Quake.

(And CS "radar" doesn't show you were people are constantly unless they crouch like in Halo 5, in CS if they shoot a blip pops up on the radar for half a second then disappears so not the same).

 

 

I've said this to multiple pros on twitter and on their stream and I want a response. The question is does radar make the game more or less competitive? If it's less then it should be removed point blank period regardless of if you "think" it brings more viewership or makes more casuals want to play but if it makes it more then keep it but debating on competitive shouldn't have viewership and player count added into the equation.

 

I would debate that if people are going to play Halo then they are going to play, the ruleset doesn't deter or embrace anybody. Aches from CoD did a twitlonger about this last week talking about the same thing because the CoD community is going through the same thing debating on settings to make it easier for casual because both CoD and Halo cannot accept that they are not bigger esports then others. Here is what Aches said: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snr721

 

Instead of just going along with what the pros say use your own brain and come to your own conclusion, to say that some of the pros aren't biased towards their own agenda would be a blatant lie as in more viewership and people playing makes them more money(exposure, sponsors, contracts, etc.)

 

We need to fully evaluate this game and make it the most competitive it can be so let's test out BR start with no radar, let's test out Pistol no radar, let's test out BR with radar, etc. Halo 5 at its core is a really fun game and has the potential to be an amazing halo game but we need to get together as a community and make the decisions, not let others dictate what happens to our ruleset and our game.

 

We are Halo, continue to be Halo, not anybody else.

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The rules should be close to casual so they're not playing a radically different game.

 

What we need is a competitively viable out of the box game, so that we can allow casual players to enjoy it but also let people wanting to take it to a higher level not be limited.

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I'll agree that radar should be removed for competitive settings. However after playing Halo 5 matchmaking I don't see the point of changing much else. And until I someone can convince otherwise I don't see the point of altering the base settings dramatically.

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I'll agree that radar should be removed for competitive settings. However after playing Halo 5 matchmaking I don't see the point of changing much else. And until I someone can convince otherwise I don't see the point of altering the base settings dramatically.

If radar was out the game would be so much more competitive, im sick of playing stronghold and trying to get back a point and people crouching and watching radar, we need to encourage people for having good map knowledge and good map awareness not from sitting still and reading a radar

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The not so subtly hidden plea for BR starts made me chuckle.

Otherwise, yeah, Team Arena and HCS could probably do without radar as it stands.

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The not so subtly hidden plea for BR starts made me chuckle.

Otherwise, yeah, Team Arena and HCS could probably do without radar as it stands.

I don't care about BR start or not I just want us to fully research all the different kinds of ways for us to make the game competitive but it's obvious that radar needs to go except from most of the pros point of views and we know why they want radar in

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Im just all for testing settings, we should try everything to make it the most competitive experience possible. Starting weapons, weapons spawns, powerup placements etc...

Yes I want to draw in casuals to an extent because I want people to love competitive Halo, but I do not want to lose the competitive merit of the game in the process.

CS, LoL, Dota, the integrity will never be lost trying to cater to casuals, the settings are always based on professional player feedback.

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I've had discussions with people who most of us would classify as casual players about this very topic.  All of them swear that no radar makes the game less competative, promotes camping and takes more skill to master.

 

I don't understand that line of thinking and have tried multiple times to explain my point but it will never get across.  I have not played much H5 but I do know that the radar is limited and that is one of my more casual buddys complaints, well that and how radar does not tell you which level the opponent is on anymore.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the casual and competitive players will never see eye to eye on radar so there has to be a compromise.  I think that reducing the radar is a step in the correct direction but more tweeks need to be made to keep both partys happy, because in the end of the day casual players out number the competivive ones.

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I've had discussions with people who most of us would classify as casual players about this very topic.  All of them swear that no radar makes the game less competative, promotes camping and takes more skill to master.

 

I don't understand that line of thinking and have tried multiple times to explain my point but it will never get across.  I have not played much H5 but I do know that the radar is limited and that is one of my more casual buddys complaints, well that and how radar does not tell you which level the opponent is on anymore.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the casual and competitive players will never see eye to eye on radar so there has to be a compromise.  I think that reducing the radar is a step in the correct direction but more tweeks need to be made to keep both partys happy, because in the end of the day casual players out number the competivive ones.

If they make it so that you only show up on radar while sprinting then that is a compromise 

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There should be no testing period or anything of the sorts for radar. It simply does not belong in competitive halo, in any format....period. It needs to be removed asap.

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The radar in this game isnt too bad IMO. The only times its been gay as hell has been on FFA maps, and in those instances I consider the problem to be more so based around where weapons spawn and map design than the motion sensor itself. 

 

IMO, the game needs some small fixes but beyond that is fine out of the box. 

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The game is still halo with or without radar. And the best players will know where you are if it's off or on. It just changes the way fights are approached, since players can watch radar and run at any sign of danger. You won't really see forced gun fights unless it's a fight for a weapon, a power position, or if someone is getting pinched and is forced to challenge.

 

I'd like to see radar stay, but only if when you're walking you don't appear on radar. If you sprint, then you should appear on radar. This way, we'd see a little bit of traditional halo styled gameplay but with a risk/reward use of sprint.

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I've said this to multiple pros on twitter and on their stream and I want a response. The question is does radar make the game more or less competitive? If it's less then it should be removed point blank period regardless of if you "think" it brings more viewership or makes more casuals want to play but if it makes it more then keep it but debating on competitive shouldn't have viewership and player count added into the equation.

It is never that simple, you will always be compromising with regards to the integrity of the competitive experience verses what you're presented with. Radar is the sticking point with yourself but if you take the same logic you're applying there and work through the entire game you'll very quickly find out exactly how much compromise goes on.

 

CoD currently is struggling to come to terms with wanting to play the default game working with the pick and ban system over creating their own game with the plethora of 'gentlemen's agreements'. It is honestly bullshit as far as competitive gaming goes because you're not pushing the game to it's limits, instead you're creating your own familiar experience molded from past experiences but you haven't got the balls to simply drop the more modern and popular title in favour of the style of game you actually want to play.

 

More power to the people who are willing to stick it out with their game / experience of choice, but unless that experience becomes popular (see Smash) you automatically accept compromise by joining esports, especially when it is driven by the developer. That is not to say you can't give feedback and steer the direction of the game yourself as a community (as all top esports titles have done) but what it does mean is you can't look at the game as a shopping list of things you're entitled to remove from the game to get your own experience.

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