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This ranking system straight up does not work for SWAT. I've had 3 games tonight where I was the only positive player on my team.

 

I went 22 for 12 and we lost 49-50.

 

23 for for 15 and we lost 47-50.

 

22 for 9 and we lost 49-50.

 

Why am I getting de ranked for these games? How does that make any sense? How is it in any way an accurate reflection of my skill level?

 

Win/loss is great for objective game modes, doesn't make any sense in straight up slayer.

This is why ranking systems are not based off of 3 games.

 

The entire reason this ranking system is fucked is because placement matches factor in k/d. Which causes messed up placements and due to the fact that people cannot rank down out of a division, you get tons of messed up matches.

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This is why ranking systems are not based off of 3 games.

 

The entire reason this ranking system is fucked is because placement matches factor in k/d. Which causes messed up placements and due to the fact that people cannot rank down out of a division, you get tons of messed up matches.

This is just 3 that I've played tonight.

 

I've had far too many matches just like this.

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The entire reason this ranking system is fucked is because placement matches factor in k/d.

Why?

Which causes messed up placements

How?

This is why ranking systems are not based off of 3 games.

Not the point. Who's to say his next 3 games for example don't suffer the exact same thing?

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This is just 3 that I've played tonight.

 

I've had far too many matches just like this.

Its not possible for you to get bad teammates that cause you to lose more than other people do. Therefor the only thing effecting your rank is you.

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I agree with a solo-que and a team-que, just like League (LoL).

 

Also agree with everyone should be place Bronze - Gold from their first 10 games, and move up from there.

 

I don't agree with it being impossible to drop down a division, I think it should be really hard, but very possible.

 

I also don't agree with anyone who has not played their first 10 games yet should play anyone diamond +

 

The current ranking system is great on paper but it it hasn't translated fairly in actuality. 

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Why?

How?

Not the point. Who's to say his next 3 games for example don't suffer the exact same thing?

You cant rank people accurately in a team game based on individual stats. Reach arena and h5 placement games have shown this.

 

Eventually things will even out as far as teammate skill goes. Nobody has a statistically higher chance of drawing bad teammates than anyone else.

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This ranking system straight up does not work for SWAT. 

 

Not exaggerating at all, but I'm pretty sure just about everyone is an Onyx in SWAT, even garbage cans with negative KDA's.

 

 

Never once seen a player below gold. Even the thumbless.

 

You'd have to be quadriplegic and have cerebral Paulsies to get in to Bronze, I swear. I in all honesty think it's harder to get into Bronze than it is to get top 10 champion.

 

Anyways, the ranking system is so beyond inaccurate it makes me wonder if this Manke guy actually made this system, especially since I hear how good SC2's system is. At this point H2's 1-50 is far superior -- being placed straight into Onyx is an absolute joke.

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Its not possible for you to get bad teammates that cause you to lose more than other people do. Therefor the only thing effecting your rank is you.

I take it you're not familiar with a normal distribution. It is entirely possible for some people get matched up with bad players more frequently than others and lose rank because of it. As you can see from the graph below, if you happen to be in the unlucky percentage, well, sucks to be you.

X2604-D-41.png

Eventually things will even out as far as teammate skill goes. Nobody has a statistically higher chance of drawing bad teammates than anyone else.

You're still entirely missing the point. Nobody has a higher chance of being matched up with bad team mates for each game, but why are they even being matched up with bad team mates in the first place? Because of the flawed system. You don't want each team to have 2 bad players, 1 average player and 1 good player. You want each team to have 4 bad players, 4 average players or 4 good players. Under the current system, you don't get that, you get your awful statistical jumble of players from all over the spectrum.

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Wait.... K/D is a factor? What?

In placement games ya. And it produces stupid results. On different accounts ive been ranked onyx, diamond and platinum.

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Not exaggerating at all, but I'm pretty sure just about everyone is an Onyx in SWAT, even garbage cans with negative KDA's.

 

 

 

You'd have to be quadriplegic and have cerebral Paulsies to get in to Bronze, I swear. I in all honesty think it's harder to get into Bronze than it is to get top 10 champion.

 

Anyways, the ranking system is so beyond inaccurate it makes me wonder if this Manke guy actually made this system, especially since I hear how good SC2's system is. At this point H2's 1-50 is far superior -- being placed straight into Onyx is an absolute joke.

I deranked an alt to see if getting bronze has even possible. I got it. Now I cannot find a game lol.

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I take it you're not familiar with a normal distribution. It is entirely possible for some people get matched up with bad players more frequently than others and lose rank because of it. As you can see from the graph below, if you happen to be in the unlucky percentage, well, sucks to be you.

X2604-D-41.png

You're still entirely missing the point. Nobody has a higher chance of being matched up with bad team mates for each game, but why are they even being matched up with bad team mates in the first place? Because of the flawed system. You don't want each team to have 2 bad players, 1 average player and 1 good player. You want each team to have 4 bad players, 4 average players or 4 good players. Under the current system, you don't get that, you get your awful statistical jumble of players from all over the spectrum.

People of the same rank are no more likely to get bad teammates. Obviously lower skilled players are more likely to get bad teammates lol. But in comparsion to them, theyre not lesser skilled.

 

This "jumble" exists because of a flawed placement system that uses individual stats in a team game.

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This "jumble" exists because of a flawed placement system that uses individual stats in a team game.

That's a very bold statement to blame it all on on that, I can tell you now it has far more problems than that, assuming it even is one. Do you even actually know exactly how the H5 placement system works and can you provide a link to the explanation?

 

Regardless, a placement system in itself is not a good idea and has nothing to do with individual stats being a problem. Everyone should just start at 0 and work their way up or down from there.

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That's a very bold statement to blame it all on on that, I can tell you now it has far more problems than that, assuming it even is one. Do you even actually know exactly how the H5 placement system works and can you provide a link to the explanation?

 

Regardless, a placement system in itself is not a good idea and has nothing to do with individual stats being a problem. Everyone should just start at 0 and work their way up or down from there.

Whats your excuse for it not working in reach?

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In placement games ya. And it produces stupid results. On different accounts ive been ranked onyx, diamond and platinum.

How is it stupid?

First of all, I'd like to point out that it's not 100% certain that it's only K/D- it could take into account assists,damage dealt, and OBJ points for all we know.

Second of all, W/L seems to be much more significant than the individual stats in determining your rank. The individual assessment is just a secondary factor.

Third, so what's the issue with this? If two people win the same amount of matches in placement and one had better individual stats than the other, should he not be placed slightly higher? I think perhaps you're overestimating the weight of the individual factors.

 

And to answer your above question: Reach had a very different system pretty much based completely on how many kills and assists you can rack up. This caused people to betray others for power weapons and whatnot to get more kills/assists and therefore have a higher rating. Halo 5's system does not encourage people to play differently as it does not provide a visible in game rating, it doesn't tell us how it creates its' individual assessment, and most importantly, it is not as important as W/L.

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Whats your excuse for it not working in reach?

Firstly, you've sidestepped my question about the Halo 5 ranking system.

 

As for your question, I barely played Reach matchmaking and didn't pay any attention to its ranking system because the stock game had no competitive merit. The phrase "not working" is ambiguous since it could be argued that Halo 5's system "doesn't work" either, so instead of that how about we go with "had large flaws". I don't even know exactly how Reach's system worked, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it were poorly implemented, and one thing I know for sure is that betrayals and friendly fire were a big problem, and friendly fire should always be turned off in RvR games. That's what you haven't seemed to have grasped; ranking systems from both categories of W/L and K/D can be bad. Neither of them are inherently bad, it all depends on their specifics and where they are being applied.

 

As many people have noted in this thread and elsewhere, W/L isn't particularly good when it comes to ranking RvR Slayer games, which is annoying because it's probably the most common type of game people play. The individual skill based ranking system as outlined in the OP is one such way that the ranking and matchmaking experience could be improved for this type of game. If you disagree with that, I'd like to hear why. Don't use other system's like the one in Reach as a straw man, because that's not this system and varies significantly in implementation.

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Personally I think the best solution would be a combination of W/L and a stat based system. 

 

Whether you gain or lose points is entirely dependent on whether you win/lose. However the number of points is dependent on how well you performed in the match.

 

That would both provide a better indication of a player's skill and still encourage team play.

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Personally I think the best solution would be a combination of W/L and a stat based system. 

 

Whether you gain or lose points is entirely dependent on whether you win/lose. However the number of points is dependent on how well you performed in the match.

 

That would both provide a better indication of a player's skill and still encourage team play.

I'm mostly sure that is what we have in Halo 5.

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Personally I think the best solution would be a combination of W/L and a stat based system.

 

Whether you gain or lose points is entirely dependent on whether you win/lose. However the number of points is dependent on how well you performed in the match.

 

That would both provide a better indication of a player's skill and still encourage team play.

W/l is all that should matter.

 

Ive played with plenty of people who werent the greatest slayers in the world and yet they were the best people to play with because of thier amazing communication skills.

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Whether you gain or lose points is entirely dependent on whether you win/lose. However the number of points is dependent on how well you performed in the match.

That would be decent, but still has issues of better players getting dragged. Your experience you informed us of on the last page for example would still occur. You went super positive and played really well, but ended up ranking down because your team mates were terrible.

 

W/l is all that should matter.

 

Ive played with plenty of people who werent the greatest slayers in the world and yet they were the best people to play with because of thier amazing communication skills.

You should have parties and clans for that. If you communicate well with certain players, make a party or join a clan and go play people who have done the same. That's entirely different to playing with randoms which is why they need to be separate and have a different method of ranking.

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So less than 100 players have placed into bronze since Halo 5 launched.  And overall less than 32,000 players have been ranked in the Team Arena playlist.  This game is more doomed than I thought competitively.

 

I haven't been ranked in Team Arena yet. I have in all other playlists, but I've only played a couple games in TA and have gotten worked by full parties and prefer to wait until one day I magically have 3 other people to play with lol.

 

--

 

On to the topic. The current ranking setup is a huge step above the 1-50 system. The way it is currently set up, the "50" is onyx, but it is extended indefinitely to actually set apart onyx players. The ELO system is a great way to rank people. I could go on and on about how and why it is superior, but I'd rather go over what is wrong so maybe @@Sal1ent or someone can address the issues.

 

Individual rank acquired by playing as a full party.

 

This is my number 1 frustration in playing this game. If I want to hit Onyx, I can do it in my 10 placement games, or very quickly right after, if I am playing as a full team. But since myself and everyone I typically play with have lives and families, we can't get on to play at the same time very often, so I'm typically playing alone.

 

Where this becomes a concern is precisely the bolded area. The game ranks you as an individual player for your team play. This has been a problem in all Halo's, not just an H5 and not just with the new ranking structure. For example, I carried a new Halo player friend (H5 is his first Halo) to Platinum in his placements for slayer. He is clearly not anywhere near platinum, I told him the entire time to avoid dying at all costs and run from fights and yell at me when he was getting shot at so I could get the kill lol. He ended up with a .5 or less K/d IN SLAYER and yet is now platinum. Sure, he might be able to play at a platinum level when on a team (lol no he just got lucky I carried him :P) but when he plays solo, he will get (and does get) destroyed and now the game isn't fun for him.

 

There needs to be some sort of differentiation from a team rank vs individual rank. The way League of Legends has solved this issue (only other big game I've gotten into ranked in, idk how CSGO does it) is when playing ranked, you can only play solo or with one other friend. This allows the game to rank you as a player based on a large sample of games where only you are the non-variable. If you play duo, the game will match you against higher-elo players to compensate for the teamwork advantage. If you want to play as a full 5-man premade you have to search in the Ranked Team 5v5 playlist or play normals (social).

 

Halo could do this, or limit premades to play against only other premades, parties of 3 only with other parties of 3, etc. This method still doesn't SOLVE the individual rank being applied as you are still playing in a party, but it does reduce the frustration when playing solo.

 

I will also keep yelling this too: INCORPORATE SPARTAN COMPANIES FOR A TEAM-BASED RANK!!!! It's such a missed opportunity to not include them here and allow people to unlock emblems that are usable in game by the company members, weapon skins, clan tag colors, etc.

 

You can't get demoted.

 

This is THE BIGGEST issue I have with H5's ranking. Who thought it would be a good idea to not allow people to level out into certain ranks? This would solve the problem with my friend who got carried to plat. If he wants to play solo, he will lose, but he will eventually level out and play against people who are on the same skill level as him and create somewhat competitive matches. Nothing more really needs to be said here other than to add demotion!!!

 

Placements place you too high in the rankings initially

 

This is my last concern with the ranking system. 10 games is FAR TOO SMALL of a sample size to determine someone is playing at an Onyx level. The game should only allow you to place from Bronze - Gold initially, then you grind to the upper ranks.

 

Now, when the game resets it's ranks every month or whatever it is, if you left off in Platinum Elo, your placement games for the next season should be against platinum+ players and you should be able to re-place into where you were last. But for anyone to be able to get Onyx off the bat is ridiculous, especially with no way to get demoted.

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W/l is all that should matter.

Ive played with plenty of people who werent the greatest slayers in the world and yet they were the best people to play with because of thier amazing communication skills.

And they'd still be rewarded because they'd be winning. The current system is rewarding bad players and punishing good ones, it's broken. Sure, you will eventually get to the rank you're supposed to be at, but it's a grind and in no way is it an accurate representation of skill. The only way it will work is if the placement matches place you perfectly, which obviously isn't happening.

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Stat based ranking in any form doesn't work. We tried it in reach and it was garbage. My doubles partner was a silver and I was an onyx even though we only played with each other and won the majority of the games. It's trash. W/L is all that matters. Stop being scared and make friends or play on a secondary.

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I honestly feel like your 10 placement games should be determined by your individual CSR so an equation of Wins/KDA/OBJ/ETC... this is what will place you into your division which cant be above say diamond or onyx BUT you need to be able to be demoted to help balance the system.

This of course being divided into SOLO and TEAM rankings, black ops 2 did this very well in league play.

Balanced the team by placing you against the highest ranked members level or the next one down. 

This is one option, another option is of course the league of legends route, in which you can only play social until you rank up to a certain level and then you can play placement games to be ranked into a division.

Leaving the ones who dont wanna play it to be in social and those who do to be in ranked as in halo 3, which is probably contributing to the trash players we run in to.

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