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Halo World Championship 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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First of all, I'm not advocating for radar or no radar, although I do agree no radar probably would be best.  But it seems like you guys are blowing it way out of proportion. Maybe that's your way of getting your point across, I'm not sure, either way, your anecdotal statements don't have a whole lot of substance behind them.

Again, if pros really want to play the game like this for over $1 million then I say good luck. Now is the time to try and find the best competitive settings so that when it becomes tourney time you know the most skilled team is gonna win. I don't wanna see "Storm RIFLE Ventures" beat EG by corner camping with their autos. I don't wanna see a team lose control because the other team had better RNG bullet spread. I want to see competitive Halo. You can just look at Twitch chats and see that this gameplay isn't helping viewership at all. All anyone does is make jokes about how strong the autos are and talk about how garbage it is to watch. If you want to help viewership I think you should try to make the "E-Sport" that is being played as competitive as possible. You can't argue for keeping things in comp for casuals when your game is called an E-SPORT. It's supposed to be hard that's the point. That's how I see it anyways feel free to disagree.

I don't know if you have actually watched any pros play this game, but there rarely is someone just crouching, hiding, and not moving.  You make it sound like every single person in the game is doing it.  By the time it works once, if at all, the team has figured it out and will flank, nade, flat out destroy the other team before it affects anything. Side note: just because the autos are strong, doesn't mean there isn't a skill gap, the game is still hard, especially at the ESport/Pro level.

 

No matter how much money they throw at hcs I just can't see viewers begin interested in watching people crouch around with insanely powerful autos with the occasional sniper that only requires you to be able to hit the broad side of a barn mixed in.

Same as above, and also the sniper may be a little easier than say H1-3, but it doesn't seem to be as broken as you make it out to be. I know I don't hit everything (though, I'm probably just bad) and I've seen plenty of pros miss as well, but it does seem to be easier to no-scope than zoom, so that's a problem.  Also, there are some shots that don't look like they should land, but that may be more about the magnetism on every gun, not just the sniper.

 

I mean, when 2gre throws his opinion at Quinn and some of the 343 HCS guys regarding Radar, as well as all over Twitter, and they STILL haven't even acknowledged THINKING about removing Radar, I highly doubt Snipedown or anybody else has influence these days.

 

You guys underestimate the stubbornness of the HCS guys to try these settings FIRST despite over a month of valid feedback on why Radar should be gone.

 

Hate to be the guy that says it because I like the people running the HCS. It's just judging by history nothing will change before the season starts or even by the time HWC is here.

A month?

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snip

 

A month?

I I agree with everything that you said but a month is nearly correct considering that the pros/streamers got it half a week early

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First of all, I'm not advocating for radar or no radar, although I do agree no radar probably would be best. But it seems like you guys are blowing it way out of proportion. Maybe that's your way of getting your point across, I'm not sure, either way, your anecdotal statements don't have a whole lot of substance behind them.

I don't know if you have actually watched any pros play this game, but there rarely is someone just crouching, hiding, and not moving. You make it sound like every single person in the game is doing it. By the time it works once, if at all, the team has figured it out and will flank, nade, flat out destroy the other team before it affects anything. Side note: just because the autos are strong, doesn't mean there isn't a skill gap, the game is still hard, especially at the ESport/Pro level.

 

Same as above, and also the sniper may be a little easier than say H1-3, but it doesn't seem to be as broken as you make it out to be. I know I don't hit everything (though, I'm probably just bad) and I've seen plenty of pros miss as well, but it does seem to be easier to no-scope than zoom, so that's a problem. Also, there are some shots that don't look like they should land, but that may be more about the magnetism on every gun, not just the sniper.

 

A month?

Touché

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One of the things that made MLG and HCS fun was the fact that there was no radar. It was fun taking a weird route and flanking the enemy team and catching them off guard. With radars the chances of pulling this off are reduced even though the distance on the radar is small. Competitive Halo now involves ARs and radar, try telling your H2/3 self that that this would be the competitive Halo scene in a few years. 

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First of all, I'm not advocating for radar or no radar, although I do agree no radar probably would be best.  But it seems like you guys are blowing it way out of proportion. 

 

 

I really don't think it is being blown out of proportion. If anything, I am more surprised by the lack of uproar about radar. If you asked past me about what competitive Halo would be like in the future then one of the things that I would have guaranteed would be no radar. I can't believe there are so many people that are pro/no opinion on it. What about when ball/hill/assault are added? The ball carrier will know when enemies are approaching unless they are crouching. The same goes for trying to get a sneaky arm. One of the best aspects of assault is not knowing where the carrier is. Radar will negate that to an extent. Once again, in KOTH, near the hill players will have to crouch in order to flank. I expected the community to be more unified when it came to including radar, like when Ricochet was going to be added. 

 

To a lesser extent, on screen weapon timers have a similar effect. The game is simply less punishing for not knowing the fine details of map/weapon layouts.  

 

Edit: I am curious as to whether the pro team at 343 were for or against radar. I would be genuinely surprised if they were for it.

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I really don't think it is being blown out of proportion. If anything, I am more surprised by the lack of uproar about radar. If you asked past me about what competitive Halo would be like in the future then one of the things that I would have guaranteed would be no radar. I can't believe there are so many people that are pro/no opinion on it. What about when ball/hill/assault are added? The ball carrier will know when enemies are approaching unless they are crouching. The same goes for trying to get a sneaky arm. One of the best aspects of assault is not knowing where the carrier is. Radar will negate that to an extent. Once again, in KOTH, near the hill players will have to crouch in order to flank. I expected the community to be more unified when it came to including radar, like when Ricochet was going to be added. 

 

To a lesser extent, on screen weapon timers have a similar effect. The game is simply less punishing for not knowing the fine details of map/weapon layouts.  

 

Edit: I am curious as to whether the pro team at 343 were for or against radar. I would be genuinely surprised if they were for it.

 

Guess you haven't read any of the halo 5 thread.

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No, why?

 

There is like 30 pages of no radar posts, as well as every other problem about competitive at the moment.

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There is like 30 pages of no radar posts, as well as every other problem about competitive at the moment.

 

Good. Glad to hear it. For a moment I thought you were going to tell me that they weren't going to add ball/hill/assault. I was going to be severely disappointed.

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Gotta say as a new fan I can see why this scene isn't growing. There just isn't enough opportunities to watch teams play Halo. Not enough exposure. Envy formed a week or 2 ago and I haven't seen them play as a squad a single time. Meanwhile the CoD team scrim almost every single day and the CS team have online matches on most weekdays.

 

Also the discussion regarding radar, it might hinder competitive play but it certainly won't hinder growth. If anything it should draw in more Halo players towards the pro scene as it's more similar to what they're used to playing. Just my 2 cents.

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Gotta say as a new fan I can see why this scene isn't growing. There just isn't enough opportunities to watch teams play Halo. Not enough exposure. Envy formed a week or 2 ago and I haven't seen them play as a squad a single time. Meanwhile the CoD team scrim almost every single day and the CS team have online matches on most weekdays.

 

Also the discussion regarding radar, it might hinder competitive play but it certainly won't hinder growth. If anything it should draw in more Halo players towards the pro scene as it's more similar to what they're used to playing. Just my 2 cents.

 

I assumed squads were waiting for 343 to announce HCS details. I am pretty sure no one expected it to take this long. Also, even though squads aren't playing, I have seen quite a few teams where it was simply 8 random pros or 3/4th a squad and someone else. 

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@@Snip3down

You can't say you're fine with whatever setting being in the game and then turning around and saying radar is less competitive a post later, man.

 

343 are stubborn bastards with these settings despite feedback and you're enabling them when you're in a position to give feedback they'll listen to.

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Gotta say as a new fan I can see why this scene isn't growing. There just isn't enough opportunities to watch teams play Halo. Not enough exposure. Envy formed a week or 2 ago and I haven't seen them play as a squad a single time. Meanwhile the CoD team scrim almost every single day and the CS team have online matches on most weekdays.

 

Also the discussion regarding radar, it might hinder competitive play but it certainly won't hinder growth. If anything it should draw in more Halo players towards the pro scene as it's more similar to what they're used to playing. Just my 2 cents.

 

CSGO has LANs every weekend and league matches every night. Black Ops had an invitation last weekend. That is why you see the teams for those games playing, they have something to play for. We are 3 weeks in with no info on HCS tournaments, no word on weapon balancing, nothing about assault/king/ball being added, and zero indication any feedback given has been heard or considered. The Black Ops pros are asked on a daily basis for feedback about what they are playing. The CSGO pros have a direct line to Valve devs at all times and are given info well in advance, like when Nuke was dropped from the map pool for Train. We are 3 weeks in and the ONLY HCS info we have is the HWC prize pool is now 1.5m.

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I really don't think it is being blown out of proportion. If anything, I am more surprised by the lack of uproar about radar. If you asked past me about what competitive Halo would be like in the future then one of the things that I would have guaranteed would be no radar. I can't believe there are so many people that are pro/no opinion on it. What about when ball/hill/assault are added? The ball carrier will know when enemies are approaching unless they are crouching. The same goes for trying to get a sneaky arm. One of the best aspects of assault is not knowing where the carrier is. Radar will negate that to an extent. Once again, in KOTH, near the hill players will have to crouch in order to flank. I expected the community to be more unified when it came to including radar, like when Ricochet was going to be added. 

 

To a lesser extent, on screen weapon timers have a similar effect. The game is simply less punishing for not knowing the fine details of map/weapon layouts.  

 

Edit: I am curious as to whether the pro team at 343 were for or against radar. I would be genuinely surprised if they were for it.

Again, I did say I think it would probably be best to have no radar.  But again, you're blowing it way out of proportion,

 

A. Ball: In a team game, with a setup, you're going to know someone is coming towards the ball before the radar plays any part in it.

B. Bomb: I don't see how radar effects your ability to sneaky, especially with how big the maps are, if you're going to sneak nearby someone within radar distance, they'll hear you too, so you'll have to crouch either way.

C. I guess this could have an effect, if I think about Lockout/down and someone back smacking B hill. Radar could effect, but with audio so loud, they'd most likely hear without radar too. But, I don't think KOTH will even be in the game, I think Strongholds may be a better gametype for exciting, action packed games (good for viewers?).

 

The weapon timers cause fights for power weapons, which is what they wanted, again action packed games. Camo and OS don't have timers and controlling both can easily win you games. So that's still there.

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~Snip~

 

Not necessarily. With all of the spartan abilities and nooks and crannies in the map there are many flank opportunities. Also, in competition there are always going to be five people giving call-outs and directions. I find it a very plausible scenario for a player to sneak up on the objective.

 

I grant you that Strongholds is similar enough to KOTH to not include the latter in competitive play.

 

Finally, timing weapons should be something that teams are forced to do. It shouldn't be given to them. Like I said, it makes the game less punishing for not putting in the extra effort. It is the same with radar. Say there is a flank point that you don't check as often or don't know about. The enemy could sneak up and gain the upper hand, but it is negated because you have radar. With how the fast paced the game has become, I don't think we have to worry about a lack of action-packed games. 

 

To sum up my argument, I just feel like these features give too much to the players.   

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I hear lots of stories about Monster being shady. Didn't the sudds get him banned from competing in season 1 for being on multiple teams?

Monster scumbagged the 2v2 beyond reach tourney back in the day. It was either the beginning of last year or the year before.

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I feel like they are following the same mindset of Halo 4 Global Championship with the whole money amount and attracting people (which didn't work at all).

With no announcement yet, and nothing probably until December I think we already lost the initial launch rush of potential new competitive players. Yes, we will see some older players come out of the shadows and maybe a handful of newer players, but not announcing during that huge Halo launch live-show really going to stunt the growth of competitive Halo once again.

 

All this stuff seems so basic, like why does it feel like a lot of us are saying the same stuff every launch. It's getting tiring to have these same convos over and over.

 

I just want to watch a live event with top talent in Halo already.

 

It's gets so frustrating that sometimes I think it would be easier to just not follow Halo anymore to avoid the colossal disappointment. 

 

Maybe I'm just being impatient, but waiting this long to capitalize on the launch frenzy was the worst possible call.

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It's gets so frustrating that sometimes I think it would be easier to just not follow Halo anymore to avoid the colossal disappointment. 

 

Maybe I'm just being impatient, but waiting this long to capitalize on the launch frenzy was the worst possible call.

My guess is so planning/legal stuff, 343i is dealing with MLG, Twitch, Youtube, ESL which I'm sure is a pain trying to get everyone on the same page. It might have been best to just limit it to 2 companies to avoid potential issues.

 

This is just me speculating though.

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My guess is so planning/legal stuff, 343i is dealing with MLG, Twitch, Youtube, ESL which I'm sure is a pain trying to get everyone on the same page. It might have been best to just limit it to 2 companies to avoid potential issues.

 

This is just me speculating though.

Yeah, most likely. It's just a shame it had to end up this way, even if it means some good stuff down the line.

 

Not capitalizing on the launch craze seems like the most important thing though :/

 

Oh well, here's to hoping. 

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My guess is so planning/legal stuff, 343i is dealing with MLG, Twitch, Youtube, ESL which I'm sure is a pain trying to get everyone on the same page. It might have been best to just limit it to 2 companies to avoid potential issues.

 

This is just me speculating though.

 

I have a (kinda ridiculous) hunch that HCS couldn't start an online weekly pro league at/near launch because of how broken spectator mode is. 

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I have a (kinda ridiculous) hunch that HCS couldn't start an online weekly pro league at/near launch because of how broken spectator mode is. 

 

It is pretty awful, but we (@@FrankTheShow / @@Clicked ) have muscled through it for 2 weeks now. If it's that bad, then don't launch with it.

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One of the things that made MLG and HCS fun was the fact that there was no radar. It was fun taking a weird route and flanking the enemy team and catching them off guard. With radars the chances of pulling this off are reduced even though the distance on the radar is small. Competitive Halo now involves ARs and radar, try telling your H2/3 self that that this would be the competitive Halo in a few years.

 

That seems to be the big issue that I haven't seen people mention a lot. No radar is great because it affords so much more freedom to move around the map, while also curbing some of the crouching AR play that's worked its way into H5. The game is a lot smoother when players aren't massively restricted. This is just basic stuff. Same reason why grenade hitmarkers should go.

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Spectator mode is just theater. Can't wait for the first event when "we are waiting for spectator mode to catch up" happens and we fast forward to live and there is an extra flag cap, or we hear the crowd in the background go crazy because a match ends 1 minute before we see it happen. Why was a delay that could not be removed a good idea?

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