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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Today I learned not having to worry about the cost of living for 'a few years' isn't considered life altering...

 

On another note, denial just earned them a fan in me. Why does everyone hate the org?

There were supposedly payment issues, players not getting their checks because they "didn't represent the sponsors" (Mikwen didn't really, but it seemed like the other 3 did). I don't know too much, I'm sure someone else will chime in. Basically, No one likes their CEO, but they did just get a new coowner in Robert Bowling, so who knows.

 

Edit: 

 

was that an old ceo or the one they have now?

 

The old one, who is still with them in addition to the new coowner.

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No game is able to survive on it's own right in this day and age which is my point. Smash is the exception to the rule and we may never see another instance of a game on life support coming back stronger than ever because of a very peculiar turn of events that created a perfect storm for a perfect mistake of a game. 

 

You always reference the past and that's exactly what it is, the past. We tend to look at those days with rose tinted glasses but for many they wanted to turn this into a sustainable living and the systems of the past would not have allowed that to happen. The desire to modernize and popularize the underground competitive gaming experience has led us to this point and if you use Halo 4 as an example in the history of Halo it's proof that one off big events (while extremely successful in the short term) was just that, a one off event.

 

With no system in place people lose interest and I do agree with those in this thread that the first event taking so long to happen didn't help matters much but now that it did happen you're starting to see the interest swell up and it's all about how 343 and all parties involved in the back end capitalize on the "Halo Hype" after Worlds. It happened in COD, CS, Street Fighter and so many other games in the past.

 

So you are correct Halo 5 would not survive without the support being sunk into it but that's not a product of the game but a product of how the industry has changed over the years.

 

Except that the past was an even more insurmountable situation than the present. It's so, so much easier to conceive of MLG Halo running like it used to in the modern day, especially with how expensive an operation they were running back then relative to the time. What other organization was providing a streaming service for consoles in 2006?

 

It wasn't easier to do in the past, it was harder, and yet Halo still tore across the country. The only difference between the Smash community and the Halo community is that Smash remained dedicated to their most competitive title, whereas Halo fans just went with the new thing.

 

Can you imagine what Halo would look like today if it had the same wind behind its sails as it did back then, and then you add on developer support + gaming organizations + networking + technological advancement? It would be absolutely unstoppable...but right now we're just treading water and hoping that things continue to work in our favor (i.e. that Microsoft continues to think this is a worthwhile business venture). That's exactly the problem I have with this, it's not up to us how this whole thing plays out. That, and it's an issue of lost potential.

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Lemon is definitely dick

 

"Lemon is dick"

 

It's like "Lemon is bae" but the complete opposite.

 

Kind of has a ring to it.

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Another funny thing about denial CEO was the things he said was so bad to the point Cyren had to personally reach out to him on twitter to make sure it was actually him posting on TB.

 

He had probably around 150-160 neg reps in like 8 posts lol. But I'm glad Halo Denial is looking much better than it did little while ago. Really hope it stays that way because the current team is full of good players/people

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to everyone posting gifs or complaining about how much they don't like the discussion going on, please stop. it discourages open dialogue about the future of competitive halo, and i don't know about you but i think that's pretty important. trying to shut out others' opinions or opinions in general is a pretty awful thing to see and as people have stated before, this discussion is incredibly relevant to this topic

 

personally, i think we're forgetting something important when it comes to our scene in particular: we have limited growth due to being a console exclusive and therefore we must try to appeal to as many people as possible within our community to be successful. this struck me when lenox stopped by to talk about pre-match commercials and how many aren't trying to appeal to the competitive community in particular but to the halo community in general. there is a pretty big halo community however that community isn't growing as fast as free-to-play games or pc games in general which is something that must always be in consideration

 

think about it this way: if the unfavorable features of competitive halo 5 aren't removed, how many of you will still tune in? i predict that the vast majority will because despite these features halo 5 is still a good game. some would argue that having radar and more useful automatic weapons adds nothing to the game but the fact of the matter is that 343 desperately needed to change to course of halo to stay relevant and if these features are retroactively removed then they are effectively taking a step backwards making the company seem unsure of their vision

 

343 is moving forward whether we like it or not, and that means that it's unlikely that we'll see changes unless they are largely unfavorable (if the vast majority of people watching halo want radar removed, then 343 will probably remove it but that's not the case right now). personally, i find halo 5 to be a good competitive game that can be improved. however, if it doesn't change i'm perfectly content and i'll still tune in because i enjoy watching it

 

again this is just my opinion and how i view the situation, i'm open to other interpretations  :)

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@Vetoed I genuinely wish the best my man. I know this weekend didnt go ask you'd hoped, but you got to experience something that only a small handful of people in the entire Halo community got to. You attended the first MLG event in four years, which alone is pretty dope. You've got some memories that will last a lifetime, and I look forward to watching where your career takes you in Halo if you continue with it. I knew nothing about you before I had the pleasure of talking with you and Kephrii. You're both great dudes with solid personalities.

 

Whatever it is you end up doing, Good luck my dude.

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My cynical posts are and have always been about tempering peoples' expectations and analyses of the situation so they can remember what's important. I'd like to remind everyone that we just had the biggest Halo tournament ever in terms of money and it had radar on. I don't want the Halo community's expectations so low that this is the kind of thing we're content with. That's basically admitting defeat, and an idea that I can't stomach. 

 

I haven't been to a Halo event since Columbus 2012, and I haven't been to a local LAN in longer than that. People in Michigan used to LAN every month, now I'm pretty sure that literally no one gets together to play that way, and I'm pretty sure that's the same everywhere. Competitive Halo used to be a cult (in the most positive sense possible), and a big one at that. Part of this had to do with the fact that the game used to be ours - we didn't have Big Brother telling us what the settings were going to be.

 

Now I'm not going to bullshit. Casual interest, in a certain sense, is what creates the precedent for Halo to exist. The size of the competitive population is proportional to the size of the casual population - how many Xboxes with Halo are in peoples' homes. So when you ask me "how do we fix it", I'm perfectly willing to admit that perhaps Halo has incurable franchise fatigue. But what I do know is that the last three releases - not even counting the legendary disaster that is MCC - have had serious flaws in multiple areas, not the least of which is doing work to destroy Halo's uniqueness from other games by shamelessly copying features, which sits directly on top of the degradation of quality. If you have a game that is both a mushy, undifferentiated experience as well as a shoddy release with missing features and moronic gameplay elements (like bloom in an arena-inspired shooter), that's going to wreck any chance you have of people wanting to go over their buddy's house and stay up until 3:00 a.m. grinding with seven other people.

 

Is the gaming culture different today? Do people just not want to LAN anymore? Maybe, maybe not. But we know for a fact that interest in Halo has dropped significantly from 2008. You can't say that LAN culture is dead without seeing what it looks like with Halo as a console juggernaut again.

 

You have to make a great game first. You can't even talk about tricky strategies to create a buzz around the game if you don't have a wonderful product to pitch.

 

Felt the need to quote this again for people to read in case people missed it. Spot on.

 

I feel like just because numbers are starting to increase, people are starting to get content with how things are and it's a shame. It's a shame because Halo, as a franchise, used to be a titan as far as competitive gaming goes; before eSports was even a thing.

 

Now let me start off by saying I personally do not like Halo 5. I absolutely hate the way it plays because I'm not a fan of this style of Halo/Gameplay.

 

That being said, I'm still a fan of competitive Halo. I love this community (otherwise I wouldn't be here) and I would do anything for my community that I pretty much grew up with to get back to what it was. I would love for it to get back to what it once was so that the next generation of players could re-live some of the great experiences that brought majority of us here to TeamBeyond in the first place.

 

All of this starts with the game. If we have a shoddy game, there is no community, therefore no more tournaments. Yes, 343 is throwing lots of money at Halo as of right now and that's definitely allowing us to grow bit by bit, along with the hard work the staff here at Beyond is doing. But this can and will stop if people aren't enjoying the game anymore. It just won't. And even with me personally not liking H5 that much, even I can see how much potential this game has. It has a LOT of potential. But there has to be a push to make the game as best as it can be.

 

Honestly, people can sit here and call Lemon a douchebag as much as you want, but he's god damn right majority of the time when it comes to this. Having this "well. it's better than the last game" mentality will eat this community away until it's dead again.

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was that an old ceo or the one they have now?

He's still the face of the org but the money man is new co-owner Robert Bowling, formerly an Infinity Ward dev lead who was forced to quit after pushing a little too hard for giving away free COD DLC. He's also VP and creative director of Humble Bundle, which has raised millions for charity and is a stable and successful business.

 

Obviously the past sins of the Denial CEO shouldn't be forgiven but the new management has a good reputation. If they step out of line at all I'm sure we will hear about it right away, Predevonator doesn't trust orgs in general and we've seen that he won't hesitate to call them out publicly.

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Honestly radar is not what causes stagnate gameplay. team slayer is what causes that. With or without radar you will have that. You never have that in objective game types. The radar is also so drastically different that it serves a different purpose than it did in the other titles. Because it is a short distance its's pretty difficult to use it like a radar. Most the time someone runs up on you by the time you see them on radar it's too late for you. Sound is a way better indication. Pit and lockout were way campier than anything we have seen on halo 5 and that's with no radar.

 

The only issue I have with radar is that if you are rushing someone down they can use it to just like keep a pole in between you and him. But you should have a teammate with you anyways so that's not really an issue. If you don't you are out of position you deserve to lose that kill.

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Honestly radar is not what causes stagnate gameplay. team slayer is what causes that. With or without radar you will have that. You never have that in objective game types. The radar is also so drastically different that it serves a different purpose than it did in the other titles. Because it is a short distance its's pretty difficult to use it like a radar. Most the time someone runs up on you by the time you see them on radar it's too late for you. Sound is a way better indication. Pit and lockout were way camper than anything we have seen on halo 5 and that's with no radar.

 

The only issue I have with radar is that if you are rushing someone down they can use it to just like keep a pole in between you and him. But you should have a teammate with you anyways so that's not really an issue. If you don't you are out of position with a teammate you deserve to lose that kill.

 

It doesn't just happen in Slayer. Capture the Flag stalemates literally happen all the time in this game.

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@@Vetoed I hope to see you play in the pro league and develop the natural talent. Such passion shouldn't be thrown away.

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Honestly radar is not what causes stagnate gameplay. team slayer is what causes that. With or without radar you will have that. You never have that in objective game types. The radar is also so drastically different that it serves a different purpose than it did in the other titles. Because it is a short distance its's pretty difficult to use it like a radar. Most the time someone runs up on you by the time you see them on radar it's too late for you. Sound is a way better indication. Pit and lockout were way camper than anything we have seen on halo 5 and that's with no radar.

 

The only issue I have with radar is that if you are rushing someone down they can use it to just like keep a pole in between you and him. But you should have a teammate with you anyways so that's not really an issue. If you don't you are out of position you deserve to lose that kill.

 

Completely agree, we just need more objectives (oddball and assault) and a 4sk Pistol and we are good.

 

I hate seeing two TS games in BO7 series.

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@@Vetoed I'm sorry that weekend did not go well and it made you really sad. Just know this, I will always support you and I would love to see you back on the main stage soon. Doesn't have to be next season, just when you're ready. You are a great player, seriously. I think that first event nerve got the best of you. Please don't be discouraged by this.

I really really really look forward to contents you will make soon. Will watch them for sure :)

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Thanks for reading.

 

The only thing I can tell you is good luck and keep trying. Keep competing and networking. You'll never get to the level you want to be at without attending tournaments and joining teams that better suit yourself.

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However hard you want to minimize radar's impact on the game, it is completely unacceptable to allow for the possibility that a 50-49 winning kill was made because someone stood still and let a guy run past them for an easy assassination when that player would never have otherwise known that opponent was going to flank.

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Honestly, I'm really surprised people aren't a little upset in here about how the pools worked out. Denial and EG were 2 of the top-4 and they had the same pool, along with a very good NV team. NV was basically punished for their high seed, and it's because the seeds weren't very representative of who the best teams were. Honestly, I'm thankful for X-games effectively roster-locking the top-6 teams or it would have been even worse.

 

Take a page out of the HCS handbook and lock the rosters earlier in the season, (I'd say around OQ #3 would have been perfect) that way we have a few tournaments with the actual final rosters. The other thing I would do is bump the point totals up a bit as the qualifiers go on. As the qualifiers progressed the placings were a lot more representative/accurate, and IMO they should be worth more for that reason.

 

IDK, just a few ideas to hopefully get the best possible teams into the later stages in HWC #2. Overall, I would say there's only one team in the top-8 who shouldn't be there, but there's always room for improvement.

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Honestly, I'm really surprised people aren't a little upset in here about how the pools worked out. Denial and EG were 2 of the top-4 and they had the same pool, along with a very good NV team. NV was basically punished for their high seed, and it's because the seeds weren't very representative of who the best teams were. Honestly, I'm thankful for X-games effectively roster-locking the top-6 teams or it would have been even worse.

 

Take a page out of the HCS handbook and lock the rosters earlier in the season, (I'd say around OQ #3 would have been perfect) that way we have a few tournaments with the actual final rosters. The other thing I would do is bump the point totals up a bit as the qualifiers go on. As the qualifiers progressed the placings were a lot more representative/accurate, and IMO they should be worth more for that reason.

 

IDK, just a few ideas to hopefully get the best possible teams into the later stages in HWC #2. Overall, I would say there's only one team in the top-8 who shouldn't be there, but there's always room for improvement.

Completely agree. The only team in the entire tournament that would have come out of Pool C if they were in nV's position is CLG. I like the idea of increased points per OQ or maybe point decay where you lose a certain % of the previous OQ's points when the next comes around.

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Honestly, I'm really surprised people aren't a little upset in here about how the pools worked out. Denial and EG were 2 of the top-4 and they had the same pool, along with a very good NV team. NV was basically punished for their high seed, and it's because the seeds weren't very representative of who the best teams were. Honestly, I'm thankful for X-games effectively roster-locking the top-6 teams or it would have been even worse.

 

Take a page out of the HCS handbook and lock the rosters earlier in the season, (I'd say around OQ #3 would have been perfect) that way we have a few tournaments with the actual final rosters. The other thing I would do is bump the point totals up a bit as the qualifiers go on. As the qualifiers progressed the placings were a lot more representative/accurate, and IMO they should be worth more for that reason.

 

IDK, just a few ideas to hopefully get the best possible teams into the later stages in HWC #2. Overall, I would say there's only one team in the top-8 who shouldn't be there, but there's always room for improvement.

 

You have to also take into account seeds would have been a hell of a lot different if there weren't the abundance of DQs given out during the OQs, that of which, nV for example, was the victim of at one point.

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Long read inbound.
Thanks for reading.

 

 

Great post. I feel the way Denial played this weekend proves your point. The synergy they showed was amazing.

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It doesn't just happen in Slayer. Capture the Flag stalemates literally happen all the time in this game.

That's not the same kind of stalemate. Slayer stalemates are both teams sitting around waiting for the other team to make a move/mistake. Flag stalemates are where both flags are out, but you still have both teams actively attempting to defend/return. Slayer stalemates, for me, are incredibly boring. Flag stalemates, on the other hand, are very tense and often lead to incredibly clutch plays.

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I agree that Pool C was tough but the only pool that I think NV could have made it out of is Pool A.

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