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Do you feel there could have been any improvements what so over made to breakout's objective? I've heard numerous, numerous suggestions that I felt were improvements that would provide more options. 

 

People are interpreting Breakout's flag in the same way they think of CS:GO or CoD's Bomb Plant or Defuse. Those gametypes make it so if the Attackers do not complete the objective (or kill the enemy team), then they lose the round. Therefore, people are always thinking about the Bomb sites off spawn. This is not the purpose of Breakout's flag.

 

Breakout's flag is not the primary objective. Ironically, in somewhat of a normal Halo theme, the goal is to obtain power weapons and eliminate the enemy team. We've seen maps with Hydra, DMRs, Camo, Shotgun, all used as power weapons to incentivize the initial map movement.

 

In the Beta, there was none of that, only Grenades. No Objective, and no guaranteed way to tip the scales means people would stay back in their bases. Now that there are weapons, if you just chill in your base you are going to get wrecked by people who picked up Camo and Hydra. 

 

Then what's the point of the flag? Exactly what Lethul said, its purpose is to eliminate late game stalemates. If players scatter around the map and eventually the game is a 2v1, the 1 player could just hide and play extremely defensive and in Beta-Breakout he could easily stall and tie the round with lame gameplay. Now, the team with 2 players remaining can initiate a late-round flag run to force the lone wolf to act. It gets even more interesting if the Lone Wolf has weapons or a powerup, or if he is far or close to his spawn.

 

TL;DR: Flag is not the primary objective, power weapons are. Flag is used to force movement during late-game stalemates and camping.

 

If they wanted to take a more SnD approach, then a Flag-push objective is by far the worst addition I have ever heard of.

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People are interpreting Breakout's flag in the same way they think of CS:GO or CoD's Bomb Plant or Defuse. Those gametypes make it so if the Attackers do not complete the objective (or kill the enemy team), then they lose the round. Therefore, people are always thinking about the Bomb sites off spawn. This is not the purpose of Breakout's flag.

 

Breakout's flag is not the primary objective. Ironically, in somewhat of a normal Halo theme, the goal is to obtain power weapons and eliminate the enemy team. We've seen maps with Hydra, DMRs, Camo, Shotgun, all used as power weapons to incentivize the initial map movement.

 

In the Beta, there was none of that, only Grenades. No Objective, and no guaranteed way to tip the scales means people would stay back in their bases. Now that there are weapons, if you just chill in your base you are going to get wrecked by people who picked up Camo and Hydra.

 

Then what's the point of the flag? Exactly what Lethul said, its purpose is to eliminate late game stalemates. If players scatter around the map and eventually the game is a 2v1, the 1 player could just hide and play extremely defensive and in Beta-Breakout he could easily stall and tie the round with lame gameplay. Now, the team with 2 players remaining can initiate a late-round flag run to force the lone wolf to act. It gets even more interesting if the Lone Wolf has weapons or a powerup, or if he is far or close to his spawn.

 

TL;DR: Flag is not the primary objective, power weapons are. Flag is used to force movement during late-game stalemates and camping.

 

If they wanted to take a more SnD approach, then a Flag-push objective is by far the worst addition I have ever heard of.

How does it stop stalemates? Is one team forced to cap the flag or they lose? And having to bring it to the enemy base means the enemy can still camp on his side of the map and cause a stalemate. If the enemy does decide to grab the flag all he has to do is look at his base and protect it making him play even more defensively. If you could bring the flag to your own base it would open up a lot more strategies and force movement a lot more. You could have a team that focuses on capping over slaying or vice versa. But as it is now it helps absolutely nothing since there is no reason to grab the flag. You are better off looking for the last enemy or just watching the flag if you are up a man or in a 1v1.

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How does it stop stalemates? Is one team forced to cap the flag or they lose? And having to bring it to the enemy base means the enemy can still camp on his side of the map and cause a stalemate. If the enemy does decide to grab the flag all he has to do is look at his base and protect it making him play even more defensively. If you could bring the flag to your own base it would open up a lot more strategies and force movement a lot more. You could have a team that focuses on capping over slaying or vice versa. But as it is now it helps absolutely nothing since there is no reason to grab the flag. You are better off looking for the last enemy or just watching the flag if you are up a man or in a 1v1.

 

Thought I summed it up pretty well in my last post so maybe re-read but here:

 

  • If you stay at your base to prevent them from pushing the flag, you won't get any weapons, they'll pick up power weapons, come to your base and destroy you (this wasn't the case in the Beta)
  • If you push the flag off the start, you are giving up map control or weapons because the flag is more often than not, out in the open (this wasn't the case in the Beta)
  • If you have a numbers advantage, you can pick up the flag and start a push... forcing the enemy team to start making moves. If the flag wasn't there, the team with fewer players will hide and camp, if they see the urgency of a flag push they are going to have to come up clutch and get kills quick. (this wasn't the case in the Beta)

Those three bullets continuously loop.

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Thought I summed it up pretty well in my last post so maybe re-read but here:

 

  • If you stay at your base to prevent them from pushing the flag, you won't get any weapons, they'll pick up power weapons, come to your base and destroy you (this wasn't the case in the Beta)
  • If you push the flag off the start, you are giving up map control or weapons because the flag is more often than not, out in the open (this wasn't the case in the Beta)
  • If you have a numbers advantage, you can pick up the flag and start a push... forcing the enemy team to start making moves. If the flag wasn't there, the team with fewer players will hide and camp, if they see the urgency of a flag push they are going to have to come up clutch and get kills quick. (this wasn't the case in the Beta)

Those three bullets continuously loop.

 

There are a few problems with it, but it's definitely better than Beta was.

 

(One problem, for instance, is this is the only gametype I can think of in Halo history where the goal is to take a flag to your OPPONENT'S base, rather than to your own.  Making it a Grifball-style bomb plant would solve that issue, though.)

 

There's also still the possibility for tied rounds / stalemates since the flag has to be SCORED to win via that objective victory case, but making it tug-of-war/progress based could lead to trolling where a teammate just holds the flag on your side of the map.

 

 

Personally, I'd prefer a single territory to capture, and whoever holds the territory as the round expires, but I'm sure there are counterpoints to that version as well.

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There are a few problems with it, but it's definitely better than Beta was.

 

(One problem, for instance, is this is the only gametype I can think of in Halo history where the goal is to take a flag to your OPPONENT'S base, rather than to your own. Making it a Grifball-style bomb plant would solve that issue, though.)

 

There's also still the possibility for tied rounds / stalemates since the flag has to be SCORED to win via that objective victory case, but making it tug-of-war/progress based could lead to trolling where a teammate just holds the flag on your side of the map.

 

 

Personally, I'd prefer a single territory to capture, and whoever holds the territory as the round expires, but I'm sure there are counterpoints to that version as well.

That seems to be the ideal scenario.

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Thought I summed it up pretty well in my last post so maybe re-read but here:

 

  • If you stay at your base to prevent them from pushing the flag, you won't get any weapons, they'll pick up power weapons, come to your base and destroy you (this wasn't the case in the Beta)
  • If you push the flag off the start, you are giving up map control or weapons because the flag is more often than not, out in the open (this wasn't the case in the Beta)
  • If you have a numbers advantage, you can pick up the flag and start a push... forcing the enemy team to start making moves. If the flag wasn't there, the team with fewer players will hide and camp, if they see the urgency of a flag push they are going to have to come up clutch and get kills quick. (this wasn't the case in the Beta)
Those three bullets continuously loop.
Okay I see what you mean. Although I still feel that bringing it to your own base would help a little more. I get why regular breakout leads to stalemates and the flag addition is definitely a huge improvement. But like Tiberius stated I believe a neutral territory would be the most beneficial.

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(One problem, for instance, is this is the only gametype I can think of in Halo history where the goal is to take a flag to your OPPONENT'S base, rather than to your own.  Making it a Grifball-style bomb plant would solve that issue, though.)

 

There's also still the possibility for tied rounds / stalemates since the flag has to be SCORED to win via that objective victory case, but making it tug-of-war/progress based could lead to trolling where a teammate just holds the flag on your side of the map.

 

 

Personally, I'd prefer a single territory to capture, and whoever holds the territory as the round expires, but I'm sure there are counterpoints to that version as well.

 

There are some disorienting parts regarding how its a Flag that has to be delievered and brought back, but hopefully the deliver indicator helps people with that who are unfamiliar (this won't be an issue at high level play). And yep, a Bomb would be more fitting but oh wait... there is no Assault in H5 Kreygasm.

 

As for stalemates, I'm not saying the definitive counter to a stalemate, but if a team outnumbered is hiding and they see the enemy grab the flag, they are going to have to do SOMETHING to initiate action. Especially if for say the team with numbers sends 1 Player to grab the flag, and another 1-2 players to hunt down the other team.

I was interested in a Territory capture point as well, but who knows. Maybe the flag will work. Looking forward to watching it played.

 

 

Although I still feel that bringing it to your own base would help a little more

 

 

Honestly in Breakout after the initial push players tend to scatter everywhere (in my experience). There may be some times where people sway towards their side of the map but there will be factors such as flanks, picking up weapons that enemies drop, etc. that will move players all around. There were plenty of times in the Beta where I ended up at the other teams base and all of a sudden I heard 'Duel!' and the other guy was at my base.

 

It comes down to a round by round basis but if I'm playing devil's advocate, you could say that its a lot easier to just grab the flag and book it back to your base. People are thinking of the flag as a primary objective where people have to bum rush it and will encounter a team of 4 players ready to gun them down, thats not what it is. 

 

It's a device to enforce movement when the game slows down in the late-round.

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There are some disorienting parts regarding how its a Flag that has to be delievered and brought back, but hopefully the deliver indicator helps people with that who are unfamiliar (this won't be an issue at high level play). And yep, a Bomb would be more fitting but oh wait... there is no Assault in H5 Kreygasm.

 

As for stalemates, I'm not saying the definitive counter to a stalemate, but if a team outnumbered is hiding and they see the enemy grab the flag, they are going to have to do SOMETHING to initiate action. Especially if for say the team with numbers sends 1 Player to grab the flag, and another 1-2 players to hunt down the other team.

I was interested in a Territory capture point as well, but who knows. Maybe the flag will work. Looking forward to watching it played.

 

 

 

 

Honestly in Breakout after the initial push players tend to scatter everywhere (in my experience). There may be some times where people sway towards their side of the map but there will be factors such as flanks, picking up weapons that enemies drop, etc. that will move players all around. There were plenty of times in the Beta where I ended up at the other teams base and all of a sudden I heard 'Duel!' and the other guy was at my base.

 

It comes down to a round by round basis but if I'm playing devil's advocate, you could say that its a lot easier to just grab the flag and book it back to your base. People are thinking of the flag as a primary objective where people have to bum rush it and will encounter a team of 4 players ready to gun them down, thats not what it is.

 

It's a device to enforce movement when the game slows down in the late-round.

Yea when you look at it as a secondary objective it does make perfect sense. I guess I would just prefer something more obj oriented but that's not the point of breakout.
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What you said isn't even an argument. Apart from the fact that round based gametype is such a broad term it can apply to essentially anything, your logic is extremely faulty.

Something being popular in CoD and CS means exactly jack shit for Halo.

 

If I don't like apples, how exactly does some guy across the street eating half a pound of them every day have any kind of relevance to me?

 

Forcing Breakout down our throats with those kinds of arguments won't bode well for competitive Halo.

You're argument is the one that doesn't make sense. You're downing a game mode before its even been played on a competitive level in Halo. 

 

What I ment by it been a proven recipe is that a very large portion of the gaming communty like a 1 life per round game type. It could attract new players. It should be given a shot, it can always be taken out.

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Are any of the big teams going to IG Daytona? 

 

Doubtful. Gotta capitalize on Week 1 Stream numbers, and who knows, 343 might have something in store sine it isn't sponsored by the HCS.

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People are interpreting Breakout's flag in the same way they think of CS:GO or CoD's Bomb Plant or Defuse. Those gametypes make it so if the Attackers do not complete the objective (or kill the enemy team), then they lose the round. Therefore, people are always thinking about the Bomb sites off spawn. This is not the purpose of Breakout's flag.

 

Breakout's flag is not the primary objective. Ironically, in somewhat of a normal Halo theme, the goal is to obtain power weapons and eliminate the enemy team. We've seen maps with Hydra, DMRs, Camo, Shotgun, all used as power weapons to incentivize the initial map movement.

 

In the Beta, there was none of that, only Grenades. No Objective, and no guaranteed way to tip the scales means people would stay back in their bases. Now that there are weapons, if you just chill in your base you are going to get wrecked by people who picked up Camo and Hydra. 

 

Then what's the point of the flag? Exactly what Lethul said, its purpose is to eliminate late game stalemates. If players scatter around the map and eventually the game is a 2v1, the 1 player could just hide and play extremely defensive and in Beta-Breakout he could easily stall and tie the round with lame gameplay. Now, the team with 2 players remaining can initiate a late-round flag run to force the lone wolf to act. It gets even more interesting if the Lone Wolf has weapons or a powerup, or if he is far or close to his spawn.

 

TL;DR: Flag is not the primary objective, power weapons are. Flag is used to force movement during late-game stalemates and camping.

 

If they wanted to take a more SnD approach, then a Flag-push objective is by far the worst addition I have ever heard of.

 

I understand what the role of the flag is, I just think its such a minor role that it serves and theres better replacements. I feel they took the easy way out with the objective that doesn't allow much room for depth besides the bullet points you served. Now I've posted many times asking where people feel the depth in breakout would come from compared to all these other games that have awesome 1 life modes, and those modes aren't just SnD.

 

In fact, Breakout is Extraction + Attrition from Shadowrun but with less depth in terms of how a round could be won. I'm not talking about in game mechanics and or depth of the competitive merit, but simply the rounds can be determined by money earned, kills earned, wiping out the entire team, or holding the objective (in attrition) or scoring it (in extraction). There's so much incentive in shadowrun to play for the objective even though it's not the primary goal. First person to touch it get more money, person who scores it gets a lot of money in extraction. In attrition it gives you a prometheon vision advantage where you can call out player positions to your teammate. The downside to this is there is a flag indicator so they are able to see you're position as well, but not the rest of your team.

 

That's scratching the surface but I mean some of these people worked on the same game. It really seems like it's just the poor man's extraction and I feel that providing an objective that has more emphasis on it would create better in game tension between slaying and playing OBJ. It just feels like they put that in to eliminate a camping stalemate rather than add something significant to breakouts meta.

 

I will have to see how power weapons play out though, because I didn't see that in the beta.

 

 

I simply just wish they added more to their ideas that would better fit in Halo rather than just take some concept I can compare directly from somewhere else and force it in. This happened with equipment, loadouts, spartan abilities etc and I'd include breakout in that list.

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For all the people saying Strongholds is terrible, can you give reasons why you think that? To me it felt like a more punishing version of Domination from CoD, which is a good thing IMO.

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For all the people saying Strongholds is terrible, can you give reasons why you think that? To me it felt like a more punishing version of Domination from CoD, which is a good thing IMO.

 

My only complaint is that you can't make territories go neutral, and you have to hold a majority to gain points.

 

Old Halo:

Each territory held gives points.  Territories go neutral before captured.

 

New Halo:

You gain points for holding a majority.  Territories never go neutral after being captured once.

 

Better:

You gain points for holding more territories than your opponent.  Territories go neutral before captured.

 

 

Means you can neutralize 2 and hold one and get points, or hold 2-0 and get more points, or hold 3-0 and get a ton of points.

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I will have to see how power weapons play out though, because I didn't see that in the beta.

 

This is pretty much what I'm relying on to judge it's high level competitive merit. Clutching up if you have a power weapon but your outnumbered, hunting down players who have a Powerup, etc. 

 

We'll see, I guess.

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There are a few problems with it, but it's definitely better than Beta was.

 

(One problem, for instance, is this is the only gametype I can think of in Halo history where the goal is to take a flag to your OPPONENT'S base, rather than to your own.  Making it a Grifball-style bomb plant would solve that issue, though.)

 

There's also still the possibility for tied rounds / stalemates since the flag has to be SCORED to win via that objective victory case, but making it tug-of-war/progress based could lead to trolling where a teammate just holds the flag on your side of the map.

 

 

Personally, I'd prefer a single territory to capture, and whoever holds the territory as the round expires, but I'm sure there are counterpoints to that version as well.

Halo CE Invasion.

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Why?

It's probably the best new game type in a while. It plays really well. My personal favorite.

 

I think it's pretty much the fact that you need two bases to score at all that makes it so intense.

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It's probably the best new game type in a while. It plays really well. My personal favorite.

 

I think it's pretty much the fact that you need two bases to score at all that makes it so intense.

I really enjoyed it as well. Thought it was fun to play, i really don't understand the hate toward it.

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It's probably the best new game type in a while. It plays really well. My personal favorite.

 

I think it's pretty much the fact that you need two bases to score at all that makes it so intense.

Eh I'll admit I only played a couple games of it during the beta but I hated it. It's in the HCS playlist so I guess there's really no avoiding it. But how is it the best new gametype? What about breakout? :kappa:

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I also enjoyed Strongholds(can we please start callin it SH?) a lot. Previously in 3 plots or domination in cod, if you had a big lead you could just maintain 1 plot and still win. Now you need to actually work for the entirety of a game because you can come back from literally any score as long as game time allows it. I'm most excited to play it on the assymetric maps

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