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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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It dose not alienate the casuals. Tell me I'm wrong

The point was that the reason H4 and Reach v7 etc didn't pull viewers is because those games just sucked. Their platforms sucked. Everything sucked. Period. Its not because we deviated from default settings. If we turned the radar off, for example (please god do not start a radar argument), a super casual Halo player isn't going to turn the stream on see the lack of a radar and be like "fuck this man they don't have a radar!" Using that as an argument against change only makes sense when we start playing Phantom Plasma Repeaters on octagon for tournament settings. You can improve settings without making the game alien to viewers.

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Small question: could anyone help me out with where I can find some footage of WFX? Looks like they didn't make it to mainstage broadcast this past tournament.

 

Any times they appeared in the OQs? Do any of their members stream / have past broadcasts?

 

This would super help me out with a video I'm trying to make. Shoot me a PM if you have any inklings where I could look!

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I think you're misunderstanding. When we want Halo to be accessible, we mean that the game played by the pros is the same game and settings as the casual players play in matchmaking.

 

When you watch League or CSGO, they play the same maps and the mechanics are nearly identical to matchmaking (I know CSGO changes bomb timers for competitions, but I don't think anything else is different). When you watch MLG H3, the players move faster, do more damage, and have no radar. The maps are also changed. This is very confusing for a casual viewer, because in 90% of the playlists the game doesn't play that way.

 

When you watched competitive Reach or H4, they had drastic changes from MM. Reach got no bloom and no sprint, and H4 played on maps nobody knew except pros.

 

This is the inaccessibility we long to avoid.

I understand. I just don't agree with the premise. 

 

Just because LoL or CS GO uses the same settings that most casual players use does not mean it's the same experience that a casual player gets. In fact it is VASTLY different as those games are incredibly inaccessible with very steep learning curves. The game at a pro level and the game at a casual level are very, very different. Where as in Halo when pros use default settings the experience of a casual game and a pro game is very similar to the naked eye. The only way halo can reach the same depth that other esports naturally have is by creating settings that are deeper than default settings.

 

A casual halo player is not going to be anymore confused by different Halo settings than a casual LoL player is by watching pros do things they have no idea how to do.

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I know a 65 year old who plays a very hard shooter that benefits greatly from having a scuf or from clawing. When his Scuf broke he learned how to claw and did it for the next month and a half before he got his controller fixed.

 

A ton of variables go into this, but the point is that despite the age he's still able to manage in a shooter.

A 65 year old man clawing is probably the most rad thing I have ever heard. 

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I think everybody is missing what eSports is.

 

In its entirety, eSports is a marketing tool. End of story. Tournaments, Leagues, Championships are all ran because they attract a crowd to the game.

 

@ had a tweet relatively recently that resonated with me in Marketing at a gaming company.

 

https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/693136734503047169

 

Engage the masses: Keep competitive play as open to everybody as humanly possible. This should not fall on Tournament Organizers to do. This should be the developers creating a vanilla competitive game that appeals to casuals and serious players alike. Let everybody know they have a chance to become the best. Show them why, how, and where to do it.

 

Create participation points for everyone: Give everybody a reason to play. Give everybody a chance. Give everybody a reason to try. Notice why we had room for 512 teams in the online qualifiers? Leave nobody out, let people carve their own paths and make what they will out of it. Like most of us, you got into competitive gaming by playing, not by watching.

 

Culture the grassroots community: Appreciate community growth. Support independent content creators like @@ssbChad @@Bad Dub @T0rM3nTeD and @@Vetoed Nurture the casual community by appealing to them, not changing the game to cater to the pros. Create an environment that enables the community to show their passion, skill, and hobbies. Let the community be your brand ambassadors. Creating a positive experience will create brand loyalty. Every time.

 

Funnel to pro level competition: Speaks for itself. After following the first few steps, focus on driving to tournaments. Utilize events and tournaments and your top tier players as marketing tools.

 

 

 

The professional tier players are .05% of the market. They dont bring in the casual viewers. The appeal to be in that .05% brings in the casual viewers. Keeping the game as vanilla as possible is what keeps new players trying to become the best they can be, and that's how we will see our small tiny fraction of the Halo community grow and develop.

 

 

If accessibility is the key to a successful esport than why are all the most popular esports incredibly inaccessible games?

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The point was that the reason H4 and Reach v7 etc didn't pull viewers is because those games just sucked. Their platforms sucked. Everything sucked. Period. Its not because we deviated from default settings. If we turned the radar off, for example (please god do not start a radar argument), a super casual Halo player isn't going to turn the stream on see the lack of a radar and be like "fuck this man they don't have a radar!" Using that as an argument against change only makes sense when we start playing Phantom Plasma Repeaters on octagon for tournament settings. You can improve settings without making the game alien to viewers.

On radar I agree, but you cannot say that as far as the weapon starts, power up spawns, default maps, etc is bad for viewership

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Small question: could anyone help me out with where I can find some footage of WFX? Looks like they didn't make it to mainstage broadcast this past tournament.

 

Any times they appeared in the OQs? Do any of their members stream / have past broadcasts?

 

This would super help me out with a video I'm trying to make. Shoot me a PM if you have any inklings where I could look!

They beat EG in one of the OQ's and beat Optic in that same OQ, Ryanoob streams, and Shooter streams.

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nV didn't show up to play that match I believe so WFX was given the win because they were there.

What? I hadnt heard that. Whats the story behind nV not showing up to play Winterfox?

 

Anything short of one of the 4 players thumbs falling off and I think thats bullshit and scummy.

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What? I hadnt heard that. Whats the story behind nV not showing up to play Winterfox?

 

Anything short of one of the 4 players thumbs falling off and I think thats bullshit and scummy.

@Kephrii talked about it in his VLOG. The match meant nothing, the tourney was behind, and they wanted to allow someone else to get some time on main stage. Those were the reasons Kephrii gave anyways.

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They beat EG in one of the OQ's and beat Optic in that same OQ, Ryanoob streams, and Shooter streams.

 

:intensifies:  :wub:

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What? I hadnt heard that. Whats the story behind nV not showing up to play Winterfox?

 

Anything short of one of the 4 players thumbs falling off and I think thats bullshit and scummy.

 

 

they probably didn't show up because there was no point in playing. It would have just been a waste of time for them. 

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I agree that having tournaments use the same settings as matchmaking is best.  I disagree about what those settings should be though.

To me, the obvious solution is to have the matchmaking settings mimic the competitive settings instead of having the competitive settings mimic the matchmaking settings.

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What? I hadnt heard that. Whats the story behind nV not showing up to play Winterfox?

 

Anything short of one of the 4 players thumbs falling off and I think thats bullshit and scummy.

Not showing up to consolation or just pointless series was actually fairly common back in the MLG days

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Not showing up to consolation or just pointless series was actually fairly common back in the MLG days

But at the biggest tournament of the year so far?

 

Overdrive had no problem showing up even though they werent winning games. Same with SOAR/WFX and DT. 

 

Personally, I hate everything about a no show like that and I will leave the rest of the way I feel about it to myself because it will certainly not come off as acceptable.

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I think more people need to understand that talking about settings is pointless (at least right now) because:

 

1) There won't be ANY changes between now and Worlds

2) Most people are comfortable with how it is now

3) People are tired of reading it

 

On a personal level, I'd like to see people dig up some sweet Forge maps that aren't remakes and that are good enough to be implemented across the board for Matchmaking AND competitive (so the competitive circuit doesn't have like 5-10 weird ass maps that people who don't search Team Arena/run GB/compete have never seen like in Reach). I do know that 343 is working on a symmetrical map in the next DLC, so there's that... but I think we could do more.

 

If this is done right, we'd get new maps that can be implemented in both the casual and competitive side (preventing the split and viewer confusion), some of which might be much better for Oddball and Bomb than existing ones, and we can also have TS maps that don't devolve into a stand still and snowball when one team loses control. Getting maps that aren't Rig or Eden TS would be a much better upgrade for "pacing" than radar changes (which seems to be the main complaint)

343 literally just said on reddit that a sandbox update is coming in april.

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But at the biggest tournament of the year so far?

 

Overdrive had no problem showing up even though they werent winning games. Same with SOAR/WFX and DT. 

 

Personally, I hate everything about a no show like that and I will leave the rest of the way I feel about it to myself because it will certainly not come off as acceptable.

You don't understand.

 

By the time nV/WFX were scheduled to play the Group C standings were:

EG 2-0

Denial 2-0

nV 0-2

WFX 0-2

 

The series would have meant nothing because both teams were already eliminated.

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I thought pros would have better accuracy.

Well you have to consider how much they prefire, which is huge in this game. If no one prefired, the accuracies would be even higher.

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343 literally just said on reddit that a sandbox update is coming in april.

 

 

Yeah figured they'd wait till after worlds to make any big changes. Glad they are talking about this now though!!!

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If accessibility is the key to a successful esport than why are all the most popular esports incredibly inaccessible games?

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about...

 

League of Legends: Free to play on the most played console in the world, the PC.

CS:GO 15 bucks(7.99 on sale) on the most played console in the world, the PC.

DOTA: Free to Play on the most played console in the world, the PC.

StarCraft: 40-60 bucks on the most played console in the world, the PC.

SMITE: Free to play on the most played console in the world, the PC.

Super Smash: Same cost as Halo, just a different console

CoD: Most played FPS in the World on Console

Gears of War: Premier 3rdPS on Console

Fighting Games: Requires purchase of gear after purchasing console

 

 

How are any of these inaccessible? If you want to compete in a game, chances are...and when I say chances I mean 99% likelihood that you already own the game you want to compete in. Considering 3 of the top 4 competitive titles in the world are free and/or extremely cheap games on PC I dont really see how there is any argument that they're inaccessible. Not to mention that almost every competitive title on that list uses vanilla settings as their premier form of game play which is a strategy we're finally seeing Halo adopt and excel at. The only argument for inaccessibility would fall on the console argument, which i would counter by saying what I said earlier. Chances are, you're not buying a console IN ORDER to compete. You already own it, play the game, and then transition into the competitive stage.

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