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Vetoed

Issues w/ Halo 5 FFA

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Sorry I dont exactly want to "bump" a thread. But I think @@Vetoed made such good points in his original posts and now that we are getting closer and closer to the seasonal rank resets, I think its time to come up with his suggestions again.

 

Two days ago I finished my placement matches in FFA and got placed into Onyx. (Wow such surprise, much unexpected). I actually enjoyed it a lot. No, the settings are pretty bad right now but I just enjoyed playing FFA itself. Where I dont need a team to be able to play and where it all comes down to my own skill and will. (and some luck of course). The biggest reason that is holding me back from playing it right now, or even "grinding" it in the next season is that only the 1th player gets a win. It completly ruins the service record and I dont wont that. I try to give my best and strive for the top, only to have a shitty looking service record. And besides that, everyone gets Onyx anyway.

 

For once I would like to enjoy H5G without a full team. I hope we get some feedback from 343i as soon as possible and I hope they are willing to change it for the better.

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I am glad to hear that 343I is looking into reducing the player count. I hope that they do. It would be nice to actually enjoy playing FFA again.

 

Reduce to 6-players please.

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Not sure if I want 6 man FFA anymore.  It'd alleviate a few problems but it isn't addressing the source of them.  Strong automatics, short radar range, increased movement options, and the spawn system all work against a competitive FFA.  Plus, it'd make a few maps too barren and 8 players was normal prior to the H3 play list.

 

This iteration of FFA just feels wrong. Games are consistenly close because a player can get several bad spawns in a row.  It isn't uncommon for someone to start the game 5-1 and then be 10-10 within a few minutes.  It also isn't uncommon for the winner of the last round to be dead last the next with the same group of people.  It isn't completely random, good FFA players are able to make it to the top of the leaderboards but it's totally normal for really good players to get the D every few games.

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I really hope the player count is decreased to 6, it won't fix all the problems but it will definitely play a lot better than it currently does plus it would help in getting faster games.

 

I don't know if this is too much of a change but I'd argue for removing most of the weapon pick-ups and the power-ups or at the very least placing OS and camo on static timers because it can be impossible to track when they come up if you miss seeing them get picked up or pick it up yourself and it turns into guesswork all too often after the first pickup for the majority of people in the game. However, I'm not against weapon pick-ups completely as long as people don't spawn on them eg. Rockets on Coliseum, shotgun on Empire and Eden, OS on Plaza etc. This is probably a terrible idea but would anybody like the idea of having no power weapons or power-ups spawn until like 1 minute into the match so everyone can compete for them and nobody is gifted a power weapon at the start from spawn.

 

I'd imagine changing to a 6 player count would address some problems regarding spawns mid game but there are quite a few spawns that are just plain awful.

- Spawning just behind flag cap on coliseum is basically instant death every time I've spawned there.

- Spawning red 2 or blue 2 on regret isn't as bad as you can drop down but is another bad spawn that has resulted in me dying a lot.

- Spawning on hydra on Plaza is another that often results in death.

- Too many people spawn beside each other up at Car on Truth.

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I really hope the player count is decreased to 6, it won't fix all the problems but it will definitely play a lot better than it currently does plus it would help in getting faster games.

 

The issue with this is the maps are huge. You want FFA to have a frenetic nature to a degree, and reducing the player count can lead to frustrating moments where you're sprinting around the map looking for players to shoot.

 

As @@Shackish said, reducing the player count doesn't address any core problems (It would help the spawning somewhat, doubt it would be a complete fix though). Changes to the spawn system, radar range, starting weapons, and map weapons would all be better places to start imo. I'm not saying they should should rule-out a player count reduction, it just shouldn't be the first thing they change.

 

I would be totally down for variants included within FFA that removed most weapon pick-ups. The delayed weapon spawns is also something that would be worth testing at least, though you're never going to completely remove the luck from getting map pick-ups in Halo FFAs.

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Not sure if I want 6 man FFA anymore.  It'd alleviate a few problems but it isn't addressing the source of them.  Strong automatics, short radar range, increased movement options, and the spawn system all work against a competitive FFA.  Plus, it'd make a few maps too barren and 8 players was normal prior to the H3 play list.

 

This iteration of FFA just feels wrong. Games are consistenly close because a player can get several bad spawns in a row.  It isn't uncommon for someone to start the game 5-1 and then be 10-10 within a few minutes.  It also isn't uncommon for the winner of the last round to be dead last the next with the same group of people.  It isn't completely random, good FFA players are able to make it to the top of the leaderboards but it's totally normal for really good players to get the D every few games.

While I totally agree with everyone saying that FFA has bigger problems like automatics and radar (I think that goes for the game in general) I think FFA would still benefit a lot from less players. Keep in mind that most of the bad spawns you get is because the maps are too crowded and the game just resorts to giving you a bad/unconventional spawn instead of spawning you right behind someone.

 

Some maps can make 8 players work, some maps can't. Some maps would be much better with 6, others wouldn't. It's hard to say. I think the best approach would be to reduce it to 6 and just lower the respawn timer to create more action, more often without needing as many players. If the pace gets too bad, then increasing back up to 7 players could be an option too.

 

Player count aside, the next biggest issue is how the radar range makes it hard to make good decisions. I resort to sound whoring a lot at this point, there's no avoiding it. I just dislike the inconsistency of different radar size based on the gametype, and I also dislike how a bigger radar might further empower crouching with an automatic or power weapon.

 

For now I'd like to see the player count changed (at least just to test it) and I'd also like to see top 3 or 50% count towards a win because it's still one of the most frustrating things to get a loss despite good performance and just getting screwed over by 1 kill. Anyone with significant FFA experience will agree that it's random to an extent, and to me, proof of consistency is just being able to place top 3 or 50% a lot, not necessarily finishing 1st all the time. I yet have to meet a single person who can do that, let alone not randomly finishing last because the game was just THAT ruthless with the spawns.

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The issue with this is the maps are huge. You want FFA to have a frenetic nature to a degree, and reducing the player count can lead to frustrating moments where you're sprinting around the map looking for players to shoot.

 

As @@Shackish said, reducing the player count doesn't address any core problems (It would help the spawning somewhat, doubt it would be a complete fix though). Changes to the spawn system, radar range, starting weapons, and map weapons would all be better places to start imo. I'm not saying they should should rule-out a player count reduction, it just shouldn't be the first thing they change.

 

I would be totally down for variants included within FFA that removed most weapon pick-ups. The delayed weapon spawns is also something that would be worth testing at least, though you're never going to completely remove the luck from getting map pick-ups in Halo FFAs.

 

Maybe on maps like Eden this could be an issue but reducing FFA's to 6 while also reducing the number of seconds to respawn could stop any frustration with finding players to shoot.

 

In my opinion most of the problems with FFA stem from its player count. Increasing radar range or switching starting weapons will barely effect the frequency in which people are cleaned up immediately after a battle unless something is done about the player count and a spawn system can only be so good. Spawns will be bad regardless of how good the system is if the player count is too high for the majority of the maps.

 

Edit: Yeah, basically what vetoed said above.

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If I had my way, we'd start with a bigger radar, nerfed AR, and less autos and shotguns on the map. I feel like 8 man FFA would feel a lot more manageable if we had a better radar, and crouching with autos would be less effective with a nerfed AR and less SMG's/Storm Riifles.

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