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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Settings Discussion

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What does that prove? That a pro thinks it doesn't play slow?

 

I've also heard pros say that H4 is the best in terms of game mechanics, no bloom=no skill, h3 is more demanding than h2, and h2 is a better competitive game than CE because it started teamshooting.

 

Why should the pros be blindly trusted?

 

Enough has been revealed about the game at this point however to expose its flaws- nothing anyone can say will change the gameplay characteristics programmed into the game.

I've played every Halo at launch and I can say from first impressions that this is the fastest Halo since CE at higher skill levels, in my opinion. It's early so who knows but please take the blind hatred elsewhere because it gets old fast. The pros shouldn't be blindly trusted. First hand experience should. I knew Halo 4 was subpar the day I played it. I can say without a doubt this game is much faster and better. Once players get better and the game evolves it will only get faster. Maybe it won't turn out as good as past Halo games but it is certainly not trash and is much better than H4.

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If radar increases the overall population for both viewers and players in terms of tournaments, then I think it would be a good addition to add. It may take away from the awareness skill gap, but if it's a smaller radar, it will hardly make a difference. Not to mention the game already has a solid skill gap already with it being hard to shoot. Just watch the pros play, they don't hit perfects all the time.

 

From what I can tell it's about the width of a Stronghold capture area. More for seeing people above and below you, or maybe around a corner. I don't see an issue with it, and during Halo 3 I could never get my buddies to play MLG becuz they felt uncomfortable with no radar. This could very well help boost populations and enjoyment of Arena keeping it in. I'm honestly all for it. 

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take the blind hatred elsewhere because it gets old fast.

Don't like my posts? Don't choose to voluntarily read them. Use the 'block user' feature so you don't ever have to see my posts again.

 

I have no interest in your opinion, only the objective characteristics about this game. Utility weapon kill times above one second are too long to prevent the game from devolving into just teamshooting as the dominant strategy. The meta is not allowed to evolve when kill times are this long. Throw the defensive movement options on top of this and the problem gets worse.

 

In an objective competitive merit sense, this game is trash. The gap between better and worse players is too small. Whether or not it is subjectively fun is a different issue. If playing this game makes you happy, please don't let me stop you from enjoying it.

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The pros shouldn't be blindly trusted.

Then don't cite a pro player's tweets as evidence for anything regarding gameplay.

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If radar increases the overall population for both viewers and players in terms of tournaments, then I think it would be a good addition to add. It may take away from the awareness skill gap, but if it's a smaller radar, it will hardly make a difference. Not to mention the game already has a solid skill gap already with it being hard to shoot. Just watch the pros play, they don't hit perfects all the time.

SMH. I feel like I'm one of the only few people in here that actually cares about the competitive merit/integrity of the game. These settings aren't here to satisfy the masses or 343's needs, they're here to satisfy our own niche competitive community needs. Lets not compromise and gamble the competitive merit of the game just because it might attract more people to it. If people can't adapt to playing the competitive settings and they feel uncomfortable/ alienated while playing the settings then fuck them, they can go play something else that caters to them.

 

IMO what we need to be pushing/advocating for is a faster TTK for the pistol and a deeper clip size for the pistol, frequent static spawns for power-ups/ power weapons, removal of radar in the HCS/Arena settings, and the removal of breakout from the HCS/Arena settings. Eventually later down the line after we're done getting those changes to the settings then we need to push/advocate for the removal of some spartan abilities such as sprint and then we need to increase the base player movement speed/strafe acceleration.

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From what I can tell it's about the width of a Stronghold capture area. More for seeing people above and below you, or maybe around a corner. I don't see an issue with it, and during Halo 3 I could never get my buddies to play MLG becuz they felt uncomfortable with no radar. This could very well help boost populations and enjoyment of Arena keeping it in. I'm honestly all for it. 

I'm going to sound like a dick but I don't give a fuck because I am one. Fuck your friends! We are not going to compromise the competitive merit of the game just to cater to your friends needs so they can feel more comfortable while playing the settings. They can either adapt to playing the competitive settings without radar or they can fuck off and go play something else that makes them feel more comfortable. 

 

 IMO the competitive merit/integrity of the game should be a higher priority than the masses comfort when playing the competitive settings.

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I'm going to sound like a dick but I don't give a fuck because I am one. Fuck your friends! We are not going to compromise the competitive merit of the game just to cater to your friends needs so they can feel more comfortable while playing the settings. They can either adapt to playing the competitive settings without radar or they can fuck off and go play something else that makes them feel more comfortable. 

 

 IMO the competitive merit/integrity of the game should be a higher priority than the masses comfort when playing the competitive settings.

 

Well the scene will stay where it's at then probably. Halo has always taken competitive integrity over growth and that's fine. Pretty sure every game has some sort of mini map or radar except Halo tho so...really don't see the big deal. 

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People that are thinking that universal settings will work well for Halo 5 are kidding themselves. Halo's community is too fractured/diverse to have universal settings. We have too many niche demographics/communities to satisfy for that. The Arena playlist/HCS settings are suppose to be there to satisfy our niche competitive community needs, not the masses or 343 that don't care about the competitive merit of the game. Having horrible/watered down settings for the Arena playlist/HCS will just have the opposite affect and drive away and alienate the people that truly want to play the game competitively.

 

Universal settings for competitive play only worked well for Halo CE because the out of box settings worked well and are ideal for competitive play. Halo 5's out of box settings aren't ideal for competitive play like Halo CE's out of box settings are. Halo 5 needs changes to the settings to make the game more ideal for competitive play.

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Well the scene will stay where it's at then probably. Halo has always taken competitive integrity over growth and that's fine. Pretty sure every game has some sort of mini map or radar except Halo tho so...really don't see the big deal. 

I don't care about some fake/artificial growth of the competitive scene, all I value/care about is the competitive merit/integrity of the game. Provide and support a good competitive game and then people will naturally want to support and play it.

 

It doesn't matter if it only has a niche competitive community/following as long as the game is good and the developer supports it, the game will have longevity. I see no good reason to try to compromise the competitive merit of the game and conform to industry standards. Halo will never be mainstream enough to appeal to the masses like COD does regardless if we compromise the games competitive merit/integrity or not.

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Don't like my posts? Don't choose to voluntarily read them. Use the 'block user' feature so you don't ever have to see my posts again.

 

I have no interest in your opinion, only the onjective characteristics about this game. Utility weapon kill times above one second are too long to prevent the game from devolving into just teamshooting as the dominant strategy. The meta is not allowed to evolve when kill times are this long. Throw the defensive movement options on top of this and the problem gets worse.

 

In an objective competitive merit sense, this game is trash. The gap between better and worse players is too small. Whether or not it is subjectively fun is a different issue. If playing this game makes you happy, please don't let me stop you from enjoying it.

You're making some insanely rash judgements barely 12 hours after release.

 

 

I'm going to sound like a dick but I don't give a fuck because I am one. Fuck your friends! We are not going to compromise the competitive merit of the game just to cater to your friends needs so they can feel more comfortable while playing the settings. They can either adapt to playing the competitive settings without radar or they can fuck off and go play something else that makes them feel more comfortable. 

 

 IMO the competitive merit/integrity of the game should be a higher priority than the masses comfort when playing the competitive settings.

If this was 2007, I'd agree with you.  But given the state competitive Halo is in currently one of the most important thing for this game to be successful at all competitively is for the settings in Matchmaking to match those in HCS.  If you look at games like LoL and Dota the game any player plays is the EXACT same game the professionals play.  So any player from casual to semi-pro can watch the games on Twitch and recognize the maps, gametypes, weapon placements, etc.  At this point in Halo's lifespan, it's a good thing, it's a very good thing.

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You're making some insanely rash judgements barely 12 hours after release.

 

 
If this was 2007, I'd agree with you.  But given the state competitive Halo is in currently one of the most important thing for this game to be successful at all competitively is for the settings in Matchmaking to match those in HCS.  If you look at games like LoL and Dota the game any player plays is the EXACT same game the professionals play.  So any player from casual to semi-pro can watch the games on Twitch and recognize the maps, gametypes, weapon placements, etc.  At this point in Halo's lifespan, it's a good thing, it's a very good thing.

 

Reread this quote that I wrote earlier:

 

"People that are thinking that universal settings will work well for Halo 5 are kidding themselves. Halo's community is too fractured/diverse to have universal settings. We have too many niche demographics/communities to satisfy for that. The Arena playlist/HCS settings are suppose to be there to satisfy our niche competitive community needs, not the masses or 343 that don't care about the competitive merit of the game. Having horrible/watered down settings for the Arena playlist/HCS will just have the opposite affect and drive away and alienate the people that truly want to play the game competitively.  

 

Universal settings for competitive play only worked well for Halo CE because the out of box settings worked well and are ideal for competitive play. Halo 5's out of box settings aren't ideal for competitive play like Halo CE's out of box settings are. Halo 5 needs changes to the settings to make the game more ideal for competitive play."

 

Anyways I'm a non conformist and I will be fighting the battle for ideal competitive settings for Halo 5. I will show no mercy to anybody that stands in my way and wants to compromise the competitive merit/integrity of the game.

 

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You're making some insanely rash judgements barely 12 hours after release.

Much like how we can criticize a movement based bloom system in a halo game where all things remain equal without even playing it or watching gameplay footage, we can do the same for a halo game with kill times above one second and sprint+thruster pack as base abilities that everyone spawns with.

 

You don't need to play the game to understand the objective impact certain mechanics will have.

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How the hell would radar bring in more viewers? Is that what I'm reading?

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It's not universal though because breakout is in hcs too which doesn't have radar and has stronger weapons. It doesn't make any sense to claim radar is in hcs because it's to keep universal settings

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Obviously you want to lower the shield value and raise the health value. The problem is in the fine print as to what.

 

Obviously you want the ground acceleration cranked up.

 

Consider changing the rate of the shield recharge back to around Halo 1 levels before messing with the movement mechanics.

 

I feel Reach played better with 50% shield recharge speed and that this feature was totally ignored. It only added about 2 seconds to the recharge time from 0 -> 100. Now both sides of shield recharge are controllable, but the 5 second downtime is probably fine.

 

Consider totally disabling health regeneration if the game gives you health packs in Forge. Otherwise consider making it very low so that people who escape from multiple battles eventually die.

 

Consider gimping melee damage. Beatdowns are for scrubs.

 

The game gives you lots of options for animation speeds - turn almost every single animation speed up to it's maximum and see what happens.

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Much like how we can criticize a movement based bloom system in a halo game where all things remain equal without even playing it or watching gameplay footage, we can do the same for a halo game with kill times above one second and sprint+thruster pack as base abilities that everyone spawns with.

 

You don't need to play the game to understand the objective impact certain mechanics will have.

I would argue that you definitely do.  While it is easy to understand that bloom will add an element of randomness to the game you can't say the same for abilities like sprint/thruster pack.  Honestly, I find myself not sprinting very often.

 

Reread this quote that I wrote earlier:

 

"People that are thinking that universal settings will work well for Halo 5 are kidding themselves. Halo's community is too fractured/diverse to have universal settings. We have too many niche demographics/communities to satisfy for that. The Arena playlist/HCS settings are suppose to be there to satisfy our niche competitive community needs, not the masses or 343 that don't care about the competitive merit of the game. Having horrible/watered down settings for the Arena playlist/HCS will just have the opposite affect and drive away and alienate the people that truly want to play the game competitively.  

 

Universal settings for competitive play only worked well for Halo CE because the out of box settings worked well and are ideal for competitive play. Halo 5's out of box settings aren't ideal for competitive play like Halo CE's out of box settings are. Halo 5 needs changes to the settings to make the game more ideal for competitive play."

 

Anyways I'm a non conformist and I will be fighting the battle for ideal competitive settings for Halo 5. I will show no mercy to anybody that stands in my way and wants to compromise the competitive merit/integrity of the game.

 

You'll be fighting a losing battle my friend.  I think the default settings are pretty fun and competitive.  I'd argue for disabling radar but after only playing about 15 games that's all I would argue for at this point.  Give the meta some time to develop and see what the game turns into.  If 343 is as committed to Esports as they say they'll patch the game if need be.

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snip

 

"Anyways I'm a non conformist and I will be fighting the battle for ideal competitive settings for Halo 5. I will show no mercy to anybody that stands in my way and wants to compromise the competitive merit/integrity of the game."

 

snap

 

No mercy!

 

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I would argue that you definitely do. While it is easy to understand that bloom will add an element of randomness to the game you can't say the same for abilities like sprint/thruster pack.

I'm not saying that sprint and thruster add randomness.

 

I am saying that utility weapons with kill times greater than one second yield gameplay where the meta is not allowed to evolve beyond teamshooting since that's the only way to kill players quickly.

 

I am also saying that sprint and thrust as base abilities worsen this problem and increase the kill times/reliance on teamshooting by a greater margin.

 

I don't need to play the game or watch any streams to know this.

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Halo 1's 'Out of the box' settings spawned you with varying guns dependant on the map you chose. Ranging from Plasma pistols to ARs to Plasma rifles. Early AGP and MLG events used those shit settings and plenty of players experienced them. If people are not willing to critically think about the settings they use to play halo then this game will never reach its maximum potential.

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No one will remember this post, but this is how it will go down. 

 

> Game Launches

> Ego Lords will start messing with settings 

> *Has an imaginary breakthrough*

> Guys! These settings "Insert 1337 name" are the most competitive because "_______________"

> Nobody believes him, but nobody has tested it 

> A superiority complex starts to develop among the group that made the new settings

> Frustration sets in when they realize they are the only ones who believe themselves

> Every post is now about being a sheep and bowing to the inferior developer arena settings

> edgy hashtags are made to increase hype for the 1337 settings revolution 

> fades to black 

 

 

 

This also applies to forge maps.

Well shit

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