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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

850 members have voted

  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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Looking at the poll results, here's what we have.

33% in favor of 4sk pistol + AR

31% in favor of BR + pistol

21% in favor of BR

 

If we look at these results in a different light, here's what we have:

64% in favor of a pistol of some sort

52% in favor of a BR of some sort

 

Now it's safe to assume that for the most part, people aren't voting 4sk pistol + AR for the AR. Most people picked that option for a pistol that dominates the AR in most ranges (making it the go-to weapon in competitive).

 

To further reinforce that point, looking at all the other AR results excluding the 4sk pistol + AR option we have:

9% in favor of AR starts of some sort (some even suggesting nerfs to it)
Even combining the 4sk + AR option to it, we're still left with a mere 42%, which is lower than the two other above.

 

People here are debating back and forth over the AR not realizing that most people are suggesting 4sk pistol + AR and defending that option because of the buffed pistol, which would give the AR a VERY niche use at high level (extreme CQC and an extension of melees). Other than that, no one would use it. Even more casual players would be fast to realize it's useless against the 4sk pistol.

 

I think we can all agree that having to go for a clutch headshot after a melee, ground pound or spartan charge is far more skillful and interesting to watch than pulling out the AR (assuming it wasn't dropped earlier) and shooting someone in the chest.

 

Overall I feel like this entire argument wouldn't even be a problem in the first place if the BR wasn't so much easier to use than the pistol. I feel like the solution to all our problems would be for 343 to just lower bullet magnetism on the BR, make an announcement regarding that, and move forward from there. It should be harder to aim with considering its burst capabilities make it less punishing.

 

That would leave us with a BR + pistol loadout, where the pistol is the better CQC weapon due to its faster rate of fire, switch speed, while keeping close quarter engagement skillful (headshots being a clutch favor).

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Week 2 and 3 were undeniably slower for high level players when the BR became a part of the starting loadout. Its role in H5 is meant to be an easier-to-use precision weapon if the Magnum is simply too difficult to work with. When it was already in your hands, everyone camped even harder. You honestly expect to have a better experience with it, when we already have proof of what happens if it's in the player's arsenal?

 

Yeah, because the other players didn't have to respect the abilities of someone shooting a pistol or an AR at them. Plus 5,000 other problems with the way the game was designed.

 

Or are you saying that because we got to see people running around and using clamber more, that the game was more exciting? In which case, lol

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Yeah, because the other players didn't have to respect the abilities of someone shooting a pistol or an AR at them. Plus 5,000 other problems with the way the game was designed.

 

Or are you saying that because we got to see people running around and using clamber more, that the game was more exciting? In which case, lol

 

I'd rather watch people clamber and skill jump for power weapons than 7 minutes of camping on a slightly elevated platform with BRs.

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I'd rather watch people clamber and skill jump for power weapons than 7 minutes of camping on a slightly elevated platform with BRs.

 

"Skill jump"

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Camping, by the way, has always happened in Halo's life; even the beginning people were hiding underneath the stairs in Chill Out. But you know what happened? Those people lost and/or got destroyed for not moving, regardless if they had an AR, or a BR, or a Magnum, or a whatever-the-dick. Power Weapons were important to those matches, and they still are today; even more-so, since everyone in the game knows when they'll appear. Camping has never benefited the loser, and it never will. Besides, people wouldn't have to worry about getting stomped on if there's a ranking system.

 

In my opinion, I think people are arguing about the AR so much because it's sided with the Magnum. I'm willing to bet most of you guys would be fine if the game was BR/AR starts, and nothing else.

 

So let them figure it out in the standard playlists. Not in HCS. Jesus christ.

 

People here are debating back and forth over the AR not realizing that most people are suggesting 4sk pistol + AR and defending that option because of the buffed pistol, which would give the AR a VERY niche use at high level (extreme CQC and an extension of melees). Other than that, no one would use it. Even more casual players would be fast to realize it's useless against the 4sk pistol.

 

It does nothing that can't be done better by the SMG or shotgun. It has no niche unless you remove those two weapons, which would be a hilarious way to justify having the AR in the sandbox.

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I'd rather keep the settings unified.

Wouldn't settings without spartan abilities deteriorate unification between default and professional settings by a greater degree than the starting weapons?

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No clamber involved.

 

16tYfQ6.gif

he jumped and crouched?

 

s1 to s2 or green shortcut to top mid on guardian are skill jumps. Jumping and holding a button isn't.

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They camp until power weapons spawn or until they get a pick.

You say that like it's something we should try to assimilate with the settings.

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he jumped and crouched?

 

s1 to s2 or green shortcut to top mid on guardian are skill jumps. Jumping and holding a button isn't.

 

I don't have enough footage to find a good skill jump, so I had to make due with a crouch jump.

 

The point I'm making is that watching people move is a lot more fun than watching them camp all game.

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he jumped and crouched?

 

s1 to s2 or green shortcut to top mid on guardian are skill jumps. Jumping and holding a button isn't.

It still required proper timing in order to dodge the clamber animation. The jumps you mentioned are just crouch jumps too that can be mastered within a few minutes.

 

Skill jumps imo would be ghosting from bottom shotty to top shotty (Guardian), or cannon to top mid (Narrows).

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I don't have enough footage to find a good skill jump, so I had to make due with a crouch jump.

 

The point I'm making is that watching people move is a lot more fun than watching them camp all game.

 

Not if it doesn't move the score along any faster. 

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It still required proper timing in order to dodge the clamber animation. The jumps you mentioned are just crouch jumps too that can be mastered within a few minutes.

 

Skill jumps imo would be ghosting from bottom shotty to top shotty (Guardian), or cannon to top mid (Narrows).

they can't be mastered within minutes, they can be done within minutes which is totally different. If they could be you would see everyone implementing them in their gameplay. Most people usually don't even try them unless they're in a comfortable lead. and they aren't just crouch jumps. s1 to s2 u got to hit a specific spot and green shortcut to top mid is a boost jump

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Fast paced gameplay isn't necessarily better than stalemates. Lockout TS>Warlord TS IMO. But there definitely needs to be a balance. Some fast maps, some slow maps, some medium maps.

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Fast paced gameplay isn't necessarily better than stalemates. Lockout TS>Warlord TS IMO. But there definitely needs to be a balance. Some fast maps, some slow maps, some medium maps.

 

Stalemate gameplay favors the underdog.

 

Look at the number of Pit TS games where a lower seeded team beat a higher seeded team because the gameplay was slow and the underdog managed to get first rockets or second rockets.

 

 

Competitive games are better when two things are going on:

1) Teams are encouraged to move.

2) The team with the lead is encouraged to press their advantage.

 

 

When both of these are the case, the team with superior game knowledge and teamwork will usually come out ahead.

 

When neither of these are the case, the team that came out ahead in the initial salvo will sit on a lead for a long time without ever facing much risk of losing it.

 

 

 

I disagree that Lockdown TS > Warlord TS (mostly because I despise Lockout, and only hate Warlock)...

 

Both have their faults; in Warlock/Warlord TS, because of the agoraphobic open-air design, it's very easy to remain a permanent state of chaos where a team with an advantage can't press an advantage (because the advantage is just in terms of score, rarely in terms of anything else).  Numbers advantages disappear in an instant, or are offset by a player being no shields from the fight they just won.  "Power" Weapon choice is limited to mostly CQB options, where you're only able to take advantage of it either with Camo or with a more-lucky-than-good flank (making the map's power weapons little more than a niche in most cases).

 

Lockout/Lockdown's faults are more visible with poor initial weapon placement (if the Sniper didn't spawn at start, Lockout would be ten times better), poor spawns.  Teams with a lead are encouraged to camp whichever side they have (Sniper tower or BR/Library) in order to avoid players spawning behind them unless they manage a 4-dead scenario in which case they MIGHT be able to force an All Blue spawn if they're quick enough.  The stalemate situation also doesn't have any particular weapon spawn that can break the stalemate, either.  Unlike Pit, where Rockets / Custom can encourage a team to make a push... you're taking a huge risk on Lockdown unless you either get a Sniper pickoff or your team grenade volley drop someone to no shields / kills them.  You're encouraged to avoid moving or only move to grenade spawn points and chuck safe hail mary grenades across the map.

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Stalemate gameplay favors the underdog.

 

Look at the number of Pit TS games where a lower seeded team beat a higher seeded team because the gameplay was slow and the underdog managed to get first rockets or second rockets.

 

 

Competitive games are better when two things are going on:

1) Teams are encouraged to move.

2) The team with the lead is encouraged to press their advantage.

 

 

When both of these are the case, the team with superior game knowledge and teamwork will usually come out ahead.

 

When neither of these are the case, the team that came out ahead in the initial salvo will sit on a lead for a long time without ever facing much risk of losing it.

 

 

 

I disagree that Lockdown TS > Warlord TS (mostly because I despise Lockout, and only hate Warlock)...

 

Both have their faults; in Warlock/Warlord TS, because of the agoraphobic open-air design, it's very easy to remain a permanent state of chaos where a team with an advantage can't press an advantage (because the advantage is just in terms of score, rarely in terms of anything else). Numbers advantages disappear in an instant, or are offset by a player being no shields from the fight they just won. "Power" Weapon choice is limited to mostly CQB options, where you're only able to take advantage of it either with Camo or with a more-lucky-than-good flank (making the map's power weapons little more than a niche in most cases).

 

Lockout/Lockdown's faults are more visible with poor initial weapon placement (if the Sniper didn't spawn at start, Lockout would be ten times better), poor spawns. Teams with a lead are encouraged to camp whichever side they have (Sniper tower or BR/Library) in order to avoid players spawning behind them unless they manage a 4-dead scenario in which case they MIGHT be able to force an All Blue spawn if they're quick enough. The stalemate situation also doesn't have any particular weapon spawn that can break the stalemate, either. Unlike Pit, where Rockets / Custom can encourage a team to make a push... you're taking a huge risk on Lockdown unless you either get a Sniper pickoff or your team grenade volley drop someone to no shields / kills them. You're encouraged to avoid moving or only move to grenade spawn points and chuck safe hail mary grenades across the map.

I get what you are saying that makes sense. But I believe that in Lockout TS the better team wins more dominantly on average than on Warlord TS. But Lockout isn't just a stalemate map, it's poorly designed. Maybe if I said Shrine instead? Since camping back gives up Rockets and map control. Lockout just has nothing going on.

 

I feel like Slayer needs more emphasis on each and every kill. On maps like Warlord they are so frenzied and rapid that people are sort of like "meh". On maps like Shrine when someone gets a simple double kill people lose their minds. The game only goes up to 50 and that leaves little room to come back. So kills should be more valuable. Just my opinion though.

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That would be a great stepping stone for people who can't use non-autos

I am sorry but I could not care less about such people. Its the most competitive playlist. The CHAMPIONS playlist where the best players in the world fight for 1 milion dollars. No need to cater to little Jimmy that will hop to the next CoD anyway when it comes out. Catering to casuals has never been something good for competitive Halo imo.

 

You honestly expect to have a better experience with it, when we already have proof of what happens if it's in the player's arsenal?

 

In my opinion, I think people are arguing about the AR so much because it's sided with the Magnum. I'm willing to bet most of you guys would be fine if the game was BR/AR starts, and nothing else.

I dont expect, I experienced already. I played the Beta and I enjoyed BR starts way more.

 

I can only speak for myself. I would be fine with Pistol only, BR only or BR/Pistol. But the most powerfull AR we ever had has no place in competitive settings imo.

 

That would leave us with a BR + pistol loadout, where the pistol is the better CQC weapon due to its faster rate of fire, switch speed, while keeping close quarter engagement skillful (headshots being a clutch favor).

This is exactly what I want and why I voted for BR/Pistol. I hate when people assume people like me are ok with Pistol/AR just because there is a "Pistol" in both voting options.

 

The point I'm making is that watching people move is a lot more fun than watching them camp all game.

This is subjective. I personally enjoy clutch Lockout TS pushes over respawn cams on Warlord TS anytime.

But if we have a lot of Objective gametypes and good TS maps we wont have that too much.

 

Most people here just think about slayer games all the time, which is only one gametype.

 

Fast paced gameplay isn't necessarily better than stalemates. Lockout TS>Warlord TS IMO. But there definitely needs to be a balance. Some fast maps, some slow maps, some medium maps.

Completly agree, and like I said, we should not forget objective gametypes, where camping isnt a point anyway. I would like to see 1 or 2 standoff maps. The Season 1 Noble Black vs. CLG Shrine TS semi finals matchup was so incredible exciting and intense.

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I don't have enough footage to find a good skill jump, so I had to make due with a crouch jump.

 

The point I'm making is that watching people move is a lot more fun than watching them camp all game.

And adding a bunch of defensive movement mechanics and insanely powerful close range weapons is going to help this?

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I am sorry but I could not care less about such people. Its the most competitive playlist. The CHAMPIONS playlist where the best players in the world fight for 1 milion dollars. No need to cater to little Jimmy that will hop to the next CoD anyway when it comes out. Catering to casuals has never been something good for competitive Halo imo.

 

So giving them a weapon that would help them understand the importance of being able to use precision weapons vs spray weapons is a bad thing? Even when that weapon is weaker than the rest of the precisions? Anyone inside a competitive playlist who takes it remotely seriously would know it's underpowered vs other, so whether it's in the competitive playlists is irrelevant. I also wasn't even talking about the competitive playlists in the first place, just the general game.

 

I understand not catering to casuals, but that isn't catering. Catering is what we're getting with Sprint because the fly by night Halo player wants it to play like every Modern shooter regardless of how the game is supposed to play. Compromising and not making every precision weapon with range require individual trigger pulls is hardly bending to what they want. There is no way to easily transfer from an AR with Radar and no mic to a BR/Pistol/DMR, no radar, and communication other than to just go through the grind. Casual people don't want to grind, they want to have fun. So give them a stepping stone to where they can learn at least how to grow thumbs if they want rather than just stay where they are.

 

The only issue I see with the gun is creating another utility rifle. One (or more) current utility rifles should get crossed off the list. There are too many already in my mind, but whatever. People want variety.

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So giving them a weapon that would help them understand the importance of being able to use precision weapons vs spray weapons is a bad thing? Even when that weapon is weaker than the rest of the precisions? Anyone inside a competitive playlist who takes it remotely seriously would know it's underpowered vs other, so whether it's in the competitive playlists is irrelevant. I also wasn't even talking about the competitive playlists in the first place, just the general game.

 

I understand not catering to casuals, but that isn't catering. Catering is what we're getting with Sprint because the fly by night Halo player wants it to play like every Modern shooter regardless of how the game is supposed to play. Compromising and not making every precision weapon with range require individual trigger pulls is hardly bending to what they want. There is no way to easily transfer from an AR with Radar and no mic to a BR/Pistol/DMR, no radar, and communication other than to just go through the grind. Casual people don't want to grind, they want to have fun. So give them a stepping stone to where they can learn at least how to grow thumbs if they want rather than just stay where they are.

 

The only issue I see with the gun is creating another utility rifle. One (or more) current utility rifles should get crossed off the list. There are too many already in my mind, but whatever. People want variety.

People are not going to jump into the hardcore lists until they are hardcore players. Unless you use %100, straight up default settings.

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Arena should be pretty limited when it comes to casual playlists.

 

Arena Core/HCS (their name, not mine) 4v4, Doubles, & FFA should all have no radar. Add in ranked Team Snipers, since that's always been popular. 

Ranked TS & Obj playlists separated are pretty unnecessary in my eyes. Throw in social slayer w/ radar, Action Sack, & Infection to keep super non-competitive people happy.

 

Make most of the Arena playlists competitive/hardcore, and people will start to play it that way, even previously non-comp. players. They'll #adapt  :ghost:

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Arena should be pretty limited when it comes to casual playlists.

 

Arena Core/HCS (their name, not mine) 4v4, Doubles, & FFA should all have no radar. Add in ranked Team Snipers, since that's always been popular.

Ranked TS & Obj playlists separated are pretty unnecessary in my eyes. Throw in social slayer w/ radar, Action Sack, & Infection to keep super non-competitive people happy.

 

Make most of the Arena playlists competitive/hardcore, and people will start to play it that way, even previously non-comp. players. They'll #adapt :ghost:

That won't work. You can't force people to play something they don't like.

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Arena Core/HCS (their name, not mine) 4v4, Doubles, & FFA should all have no radar.

 

 

I play nothing but ranked however if they removed radar from everything I would just stop playing.

Ranked TS BR/AR Radar 4 life.

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