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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

850 members have voted

  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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?? Onslaught is a great map... You can't complain about Onslaught and then turn right around and mention squeezing a competitive settings out of Isolation. Lol. The geometry of the map by itself makes it unplayable.

 

Edit: Did not see the timestamp...

You can't genuinely think that a map with two alternating spawn zones is a "great" map.

 

It embodies everything wrong with Halo 3, AKA massive, massive emphasis on linear aggression if you don't have a power weapon or power-up.

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With Thruster and Sprint, it's pretty easy to avoid close range. Also, if you're skilled enough, you can use the Pistol to beat the AR... Pistol has a faster perfect kill time.

 

 

That's not even relevant. It's like saying if you don't like sprint, don't use it. There's going to be close-range battles in your games whether you want them or not.

 

Second of all, if a no-skills-required weapon has no range at which its better than the other starting weapon, then why the fuck are we using it in competitive settings? To ease bad players into these settings? This game is easy as shit. Did you play the beta? It was the easiest game to hit shots in since Halo 2, except in Halo 2 you could strafe. In Halo 5, you can maybe jet once to the side really fast, but otherwise someone good is hitting all of their shots on you. Movement is easy with sprint/clamber.

 

 

In CE, the AR was pretty powerful, meaning in close range if you missed a pistol shot on an AR user you'd most likely get melted pretty fast before you got another chance. Which made sense, because hitting consistent 3-shots was pretty difficult. Therefore, those players that could 3-shot rarely used an AR, and a bad player's best chance at getting a kill was with an AR. And thus you had this dynamic where the pistol became the "good player's" weapon and where you knew a consistent AR user probably wasn't great at the game. And this dramatic gap between good players and bad ones makes sense, because again, these are competitive settings we're talking about.

 

 

In the end I just feel like it's whatever. If this is what everyone wants then fine, but all I'll say is what kind of game are we trying to make? What was "vote BRs or quit" about in Halo 3, what was "remove bloom" and "remove sprint" about? In the end the entire goal was to make a harder, less forgiving game to make the competitive modes less of a clusterfuck of bullshit and luck. If the game has a decent population 4-5 months after release, sure I'll keep playing it, but as far as that skill-gaps go, this game is on track to be on par with Halo 4.

 

Is this game really so unforgiving that we need AR starts, massive aim magnetism, overpowered SMGs, snipers with auto-aim off scope, and clamber?

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Does anyone have the image that said "the future is orange" back from when we had a thread about making the light rifle the starting weapon in Halo 4 comp settings?

Lu0KhML.jpg

 

?

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That's not even relevant. It's like saying if you don't like sprint, don't use it. There's going to be close-range battles in your games whether you want them or not.

 

Second of all, if a no-skills-required weapon has no range at which its better than the other starting weapon, then why the fuck are we using it in competitive settings? To ease bad players into these settings? This game is easy as shit. Did you play the beta? It was the easiest game to hit shots in since Halo 2, except in Halo 2 you could strafe. In Halo 5, you can maybe jet once to the side really fast, but otherwise someone good is hitting all of their shots on you. Movement is easy with sprint/clamber.

 

 

In CE, the AR was pretty powerful, meaning in close range if you missed a pistol shot on an AR user you'd most likely get melted pretty fast before you got another chance. Which made sense, because hitting consistent 3-shots was pretty difficult. Therefore, those players that could 3-shot rarely used an AR, and a bad player's best chance at getting a kill was with an AR. And thus you had this dynamic where the pistol became the "good player's" weapon and where you knew a consistent AR user probably wasn't great at the game. And this dramatic gap between good players and bad ones makes sense, because again, these are competitive settings we're talking about.

 

 

In the end I just feel like it's whatever. If this is what everyone wants then fine, but all I'll say is what kind of game are we trying to make? What was "vote BRs or quit" about in Halo 3, what was "remove bloom" and "remove sprint" about? In the end the entire goal was to make a harder, less forgiving game to make the competitive modes less of a clusterfuck of bullshit and luck. If the game has a decent population 4-5 months after release, sure I'll keep playing it, but as far as that skill-gaps go, this game is on track to be on par with Halo 4.

 

Is this game really so unforgiving that we need AR starts, massive aim magnetism, overpowered SMGs, snipers with auto-aim off scope, and clamber?

 

You have no clue what you're talking about. You completely contradict yourself when it comes to the AR's power. You like it in CE where it's 'strong' and can beat Pistol if it misses... but don't like it's power in H5, where it has the same dynamic? 

 

And bullet mag. and strafe speed have been adjusted since the beta, but I think you just want to complain about something. 

 

You also say we don't need it to "ease bad players into the settings", yet that's exactly what it was like in CE - as you said, BKs used the AR. 

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You can't genuinely think that a map with two alternating spawn zones is a "great" map.

 

It embodies everything wrong with Halo 3, AKA massive, massive emphasis on linear aggression if you don't have a power weapon or power-up.

 

 

That's not what was wrong with Halo 3.

 

The map is good. CTF Onslaught was one of the better H3 gametypes. If you think Isolation is even close to a playable map then your concept of "competitive gameplay" differs so much from mine that it's not even worth talking about it.

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That's not what was wrong with Halo 3.

 

The map is good. CTF Onslaught was one of the better H3 gametypes. If you think Isolation is even close to a playable map then your concept of "competitive gameplay" differs so much from mine that it's not even worth talking about it.

That's what made it subpar when looking at a game like CE or H2. But that's not the point of this argument right now.

 

I don't see how you can objectively defend Onslaught as a good map. I'm interested to see you try, because anyone with a decent understanding of the map will know there's only two very predictable spawn zones (as long as you don't mess up the influences too bad) and once you know which one is up next, you only need to adjust your aim by about 30-45 degrees and you'll get the first shot on someone spawning before they can shoot back. It's near impossible to get the first shot as the person respawning because you're always facing the same way off spawn while your opponents are usually in an elevated position AND moving around, leaving you with a degree of uncertainty about their location. You either run, team shoot (good luck having enough people for that, unless the other team is running a flag) or die. That's assuming the person spawn trapping doesn't whiff all their shots of course.

 

There's nothing to debate about Isolation because it's all theories at this point and no one has ever edited it into a decent variant. You can say what you want about the default map, but it changes nothing to the fact that a true potential variant has never been attempted, and you'd just be arguing over something that doesn't exist.

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yeah...nah; onslaught was shit. don't know why it was kept around after heretic came out. it just seemed like every forge map from the past was either a shitty remake or a poor man's version of an existing one. 

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You have no clue what you're talking about. You completely contradict yourself when it comes to the AR's power. You like it in CE where it's 'strong' and can beat Pistol if it misses... but don't like it's power in H5, where it has the same dynamic? 

 

And bullet mag. and strafe speed have been adjusted since the beta, but I think you just want to complain about something. 

 

You also say we don't need it to "ease bad players into the settings", yet that's exactly what it was like in CE - as you said, BKs used the AR. 

 

 

1.  The difference between H5 and CE being that it's easy to hit shots in H5, so why should bad players be given an AR that is as effective as a pistol at close range?

 

2. I'll go ahead and take your word on it. I haven't played it since December obviously so hopefully you're right

 

3. No we don't. Because once again, this game is filled with crutches while CE was a simple game which was based solely on -aim skill -movement skill -strategy. But these 3 skills were also hard to get good at.

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I watched the gamescom gameplay again, I think if 343 really wants at least pistol start, then let's just do pistol start. No AR's for backup. So that way we see more pistol/BR/DMR fights. I think that would work pretty well

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1.  The difference between H5 and CE being that it's easy to hit shots in H5, so why should bad players be given an AR that is as effective as a pistol at close range?

 

2. I'll go ahead and take your word on it. I haven't played it since December obviously so hopefully you're right

 

3. No we don't. Because once again, this game is filled with crutches while CE was a simple game which was based solely on -aim skill -movement skill -strategy. But these 3 skills were also hard to get good at.

 

There's no big difference between how much skill it takes to use the CE AR compared to the H5 AR. If anything, the CE AR is easier to use because of its huge clip size. 

 

Sure, H5 AR has smart-scope, but that's been nerfed since the beta, and you'd be better off with a precision. 

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You have no clue what you're talking about. You completely contradict yourself when it comes to the AR's power. You like it in CE where it's 'strong' and can beat Pistol if it misses... but don't like it's power in H5, where it has the same dynamic? 

 

And bullet mag. and strafe speed have been adjusted since the beta, but I think you just want to complain about something. 

 

You also say we don't need it to "ease bad players into the settings", yet that's exactly what it was like in CE - as you said, BKs used the AR. 

He didn't completely contradict himself, just a little. The point was that the Assault Rifle is typically relegated to lower levels of play in Halo 1 (as far as spraying bullets goes, ignoring its special traits). Halo 1's Pistol outperforms Halo 1's AR much more convincingly than Halo 5's Magnum outperforms Halo 5's AR. You can miss more than a shot and a half at point blank range with Halo 1's Pistol and still come out ahead of the AR, but in the same scenario in Halo 5 (at even longer ranges, if the randomness permits), the AR will win if a single Magnum shot is missed.

 

That's messed up. I don't know about you, but I didn't find the AR to be entertaining at all to watch at Gamescom, as it's hard to tell if a player is actually hitting or missing with it. The only reason I could bear to watch all the footage was because I wanted to know the state of the game. If the AR is to be a starting weapon in the HCS, it needs to be a strictly "Y off spawn" sort of thing, at least at higher levels.

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There's no big difference between how much skill it takes to use the CE AR compared to the H5 AR. If anything, the CE AR is easier to use because of its huge clip size. 

 

Sure, H5 AR has smart-scope, but that's been nerfed since the beta, and you'd be better off with a precision. 

The main skill difference I was referring to was with the pistol. It's not hard for a beginner to pick up Halo 5 and start getting pistol kills. I mean, even in that 8 minute video of that garbage player trying out Arena settings, he got a share of precision weapon kills. In CE, meanwhile, a pro player can pretty easily drop 15-0 on a beginner consistently in a 1v1.

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The main skill difference I was referring to was with the pistol. It's not hard for a beginner to pick up Halo 5 and start getting pistol kills. I mean, even in that 8 minute video of that garbage player trying out Arena settings, he got a share of precision weapon kills. In CE, meanwhile, a pro player can pretty easily drop 15-0 on a beginner consistently in a 1v1.

 

1) He was playing other noobs... not pros.

 

2) H5 Pistol is almost harder to use than CE pistol. Yes, you don't have to lead your shots (hitscan), but there is far less reticle magnetism, and the RRR is shorter. 

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1) He was playing other noobs... not pros.

 

2) H5 Pistol is almost harder to use than CE pistol. Yes, you don't have to lead your shots (hitscan), but there is far less reticle magnetism, and the RRR is shorter. 

1) The point being here that even someone that bad to the point where they can barely move was still hitting 3-4 precision shots in succession.

 

2) From what I could tell about the beta in December, no it was not. Once again, I'll consider that they've reduced aim magnetism, but I was hitting 5sk pistols in my first game.

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1) The point being here that even someone that bad to the point where they can barely move was still hitting 3-4 precision shots in succession.

 

2) From what I could tell about the beta in December, no it was not. Once again, I'll consider that they've reduced aim magnetism, but I was hitting 5sk pistols in my first game.

 

You must be talking about the BR or DMR. And, it's not hard to hit 3-4 shots in succession if your opponent is running in a straight line...

 

Even looking at the Gamescom pro footage, I think I remember 1 perfect kill w/ the Pistol? And the Pistol was the most used weapon by far. 

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I love how the main argument against the AR is "I don't want to die to shitty kids."

 

 

Then don't miss.

Hold on to that thought, and when you get the game be ready to eat those words. Human error is always going to happen, even pros don't 4sk everything. The AR's ttk is too low in relation to the pistol to be competitive.

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Hold on to that thought, and when you get the game be ready to eat those words. Human error is always going to happen, even pros don't 4sk everything. The AR's ttk is too low in relation to the pistol to be competitive.

 

 

He didn't completely contradict himself, just a little. The point was that the Assault Rifle is typically relegated to lower levels of play in Halo 1 (as far as spraying bullets goes, ignoring its special traits). Halo 1's Pistol outperforms Halo 1's AR much more convincingly than Halo 5's Magnum outperforms Halo 5's AR. You can miss more than a shot and a half at point blank range with Halo 1's Pistol and still come out ahead of the AR, but in the same scenario in Halo 5 (at even longer ranges, if the randomness permits), the AR will win if a single Magnum shot is missed.

 

That's messed up. I don't know about you, but I didn't find the AR to be entertaining at all to watch at Gamescom, as it's hard to tell if a player is actually hitting or missing with it. The only reason I could bear to watch all the footage was because I wanted to know the state of the game. If the AR is to be a starting weapon in the HCS, it needs to be a strictly "Y off spawn" sort of thing, at least at higher levels.

 

 

People miss shots with the AR too... it has plenty of spread/bloom from recent footage.

 

The stats that Infinity posted pretty much clear this whole debate up. The AR's use at high levels is negligible. 

 

Spectator mode from gamescom was pretty trash, so the hitmarkers weren't working clearly. 

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Hold on to that thought, and when you get the game be ready to eat those words. Human error is always going to happen, even pros don't 4sk everything. The AR's ttk is too low in relation to the pistol to be competitive.

 

Except I'm someone who actually uses automatics in Halo games.

 

I play BTB.

 

Automatics in Halo 3 were -the- way to deal with Banshees if you didn't have a power weapon.

 

 

I flank.

 

Automatics are great when cornering blind.

 

 

 

Not every kill should be about aiming with a headshot weapon better than your opponent.  Halo is as much a positional game as it is anything else.  Why would I not use a gun that rewards my positioning?

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Except I'm someone who actually uses automatics in Halo games.

 

I play BTB.

 

Automatics in Halo 3 were -the- way to deal with Banshees if you didn't have a power weapon.

 

 

I flank.

 

Automatics are great when cornering blind.

 

 

 

Not every kill should be about aiming with a headshot weapon better than your opponent. Halo is as much a positional game as it is anything else. Why would I not use a gun that rewards my positioning?

The pistol rewards positioning too lol. It just doesn't give you a guaranteed kill and requires you to aim. Positioning shouldn't be the only determining factor in a gunfight. With AR's that's what it is.

 

I'm not talking about BTB I'm talking about comp.

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The pistol rewards positioning too lol. It just doesn't give you a guaranteed kill and requires you to aim. Positioning shouldn't be the only determining factor in a gunfight. With AR's that's what it is.

 

I'm not talking about BTB I'm talking about comp.

 

I'm talking about both.

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Not every kill should be about aiming with a headshot weapon better than your opponent.  Halo is as much a positional game as it is anything else.  Why would I not use a gun that rewards my positioning?

Why do you think that should not at least be a part of every kill? Barring well placed grenades, melees, and securing something like a rocket launcher then killing people of course.

 

I guess more specifically what I'm trying to ask is what do you think is more skillful about remembering to press Y in certain situations rather than having to out shoot someone to a certain extent depending on the advantage your positioning provided you in that battle?

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