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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

850 members have voted

  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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With the current weapon balance, yes. With Pistol starts, every weapon on the map is useful and encourages more map movement.

Oh really. And which weapons exactly would you not pick up off the map in a BR start game that you would in a pistol start(other than the BR itself).

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Oh really. And which weapons exactly would you not pick up off the map in a BR start game that you would in a pistol start(other than the BR itself).

 

For larger maps like Orion, Pegasus, Regret, and Truth, that would be the AR, the Carbine, the DMR, the Magnum, the SMG, and the Storm Rifle.

 

For Empire and Fathom, the SMG and Storm Rifle are usable.

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I haven't paid attention in about 2-3 months. Life has been more important than H5. What are the current weapon settings with regards to time and shots it takes to kill?

 

My opinion is if the Pistol is the 4sk people are speaking about and the time is sub 1 second, that should be good enough to be the starting precision weapon and Pistol/AR starts would work fine. (If the SMG is weaker than the AR, I would use the SMG as the starting weapon so the more powerful one gets picked off the map)

 

If the Pistol is weak, then it doesn't need to be in the game and we should use BRs like always. It's spread seemed minimal and it was powerful enough to do the trick.

 

The DMR just seem like it would be a poor choice all around. It has a slower kill time than the pistol and BR if I remember correctly, and it would allow people to sit back the whole game and pick off cross maps shots. Not the most exciting thing to watch or play.

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I haven't paid attention in about 2-3 months. Life has been more important than H5. What are the current weapon settings with regards to time and shots it takes to kill?

 

My opinion is if the Pistol is the 4sk people are speaking about and the time is sub 1 second, that should be good enough to be the starting precision weapon and Pistol/AR starts would work fine. (If the SMG is weaker than the AR, I would use the SMG as the starting weapon so the more powerful one gets picked off the map)

 

If the Pistol is weak, then it doesn't need to be in the game and we should use BRs like always. It's spread seemed minimal and it was powerful enough to do the trick.

 

The DMR just seem like it would be a poor choice all around. It has a slower kill time than the pistol and BR if I remember correctly, and it would allow people to sit back the whole game and pick off cross maps shots. Not the most exciting thing to watch or play.

http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/10066-halo-5-weapon-kill-times/

 

Magnum / Pistol : ~1.2

Battle Rifle : ~1.283333...

DMR : ~1.2

 

Assault Rifle : ~1.2

SMG : ~0.8

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For larger maps like Orion, Pegasus, Regret, and Truth, that would be the AR, the Carbine, the DMR, the Magnum, the SMG, and the Storm Rifle.

 

 

Enjoy getting destroyed with that mentality lol.

 

The AR is a spawn weapon.

 

The DMR gives range improvement. You are going to pick it up.

 

The magnum is a better close range weapon. You may pick it up and drop a BR if you have a weappn like a sniper or DMR.

 

SMG and SR are monsters. If you dont pick them up you are just am idiot.

 

The only weapon you probably wont pick up is a carbine.

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Enjoy getting destroyed with that mentality lol.

 

The AR is a spawn weapon.

 

The DMR gives range improvement. You are going to pick it up.

 

The magnum is a better close range weapon. You may pick it up and drop a BR if you have a weappn like a sniper or DMR.

 

SMG and SR are monsters. If you dont pick them up you are just am idiot.

 

The only weapon you probably wont pick up is a carbine.

Is there really such a big differance between DMR and BR?

Sure one has a better scope but I'm talking about difficulty to use and stuff...

I don't think I ever picked up a DMR during BR starts in the beta (at least I never traded it for BR, mostly used BR/DMR), there was nothing a DMR could do, which a BR couldn't

Maybe I remember wrong but I don't think those range improvements matter in arena.

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Is there really such a big differance between DMR and BR?

Sure one has a better scope but I'm talking about difficulty to use and stuff...

I don't think I ever picked up a DMR during BR starts in the beta (at least I never traded it for BR, mostly used BR/DMR), there was nothing a DMR could do, which a BR couldn't

Maybe I remember wrong but I don't think those range improvements matter in arena.

 

DMR has a faster kill time than the BR, as well as longer range (which, granted, Range doesn't really come into effect on most sightlines on the Arena maps.  This is more relevant for BTB)

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http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/10066-halo-5-weapon-kill-times/

 

Magnum / Pistol : ~1.2

Battle Rifle : ~1.283333...

DMR : ~1.2

 

Assault Rifle : ~1.2

SMG : ~0.8

 

With those times, I would say it's just a matter of range and difficulty then. There isn't enough difference between the TTK to really make a difference in which one you spawn with.

 

If the AR is easy to use, then I definitely see a problem spawning with it. We won't know that until we get our hands on it though.

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DMR has a faster kill time than the BR, as well as longer range (which, granted, Range doesn't really come into effect on most sightlines on the Arena maps.  This is more relevant for BTB)

0,08 sec. faster? Really wouln't call that a viable reason to pick it over a BR considering the BR only needs 4 shots to kill and is burst fire...

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0,08 sec. faster? Really wouln't call that a viable reason to pick it over a BR considering the BR only need 4 shots to kill and is burst fire...

 

It kills in 93% of the time as the BR.  (Roughly 6.94% faster)

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It kills in 93% of the time as the BR. (Roughly 6.94% faster)

The pistol is also a lot harder to use. Oh God this game is gonna have some major issues if these kill times remain the same.
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It kills in 93% of the time as the BR.  (Roughly 6.94% faster)

In a perfect world when you hit each shot and fire as fast as the weapon can.

 

Both BR and DMR have a reason to be traded for a pistol because they were easier to use and had a decent SS but switching a BR for a DMR just comes down to personal preference if you ask me

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The pistol is also a lot harder to use. Oh God this game is gonna have some major issues if these kill times remain the same.

 

That's what I'm thinking. People are just going to use whichever gun is easiest to use because it'll be able to kill just as fast as the difficult weapons.

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That's what I'm thinking. People are just going to use whichever gun is easiest to use because it'll be able to kill just as fast as the difficult weapons.

I'm surprised more people aren't noticing this. Also if a BR user gets the first shot a pistol guy only has a 0.08 second window to react and get a perfect kill. This is a very slippery slope.

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The pistol is also a lot harder to use. Oh God this game is gonna have some major issues if these kill times remain the same.

 

When is the last time you used the pistol?

 

Beta?

 

Because it's changed since then.

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When is the last time you used the pistol?

 

Beta?

 

Because it's changed since then.

Where have you been man we all know the pistol is the most difficult that's why we want it as the starting weapon. Watch the invitational, watch Simms gameplay. The other weapons are much easier.

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Where have you been man we all know the pistol is the most difficult that's why we want it as the starting weapon. Watch the invitational, watch Simms gameplay. The other weapons are much easier.

 

If you're arguing for the pistol as the starting weapon, why are you replying to me (someone who's been pro-pistol for months) and my post about the strengths of the DMR versus the BR to a pro-BR player?

 

 

 

The Pistol as the starting weapon allows for more

1) Mastery (slightly more difficult, skill-wise, medium range battles)

2) Meaningful Choices (Do I want x weapon instead of my starting weapon? What are the trade-offs?)

3) Evolution of gameplay (More sandbox diversity.)

4) Evolution of player styles (Aggro / pushing players probably like the better close range weapon, passive players probably like the rifles.)

 

In exchange for:

A marginal amount of counterplay when the enemy team all have rifles (though the pistol kills equally as fast as DMR and faster than the BR, and can fight back at most ranges on Arena-sized maps.)

 

The Pistol as the starting weapon is outright better game design, period.  I'm not arguing against that.

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If you're arguing for the pistol as the starting weapon, why are you replying to me (someone who's been pro-pistol for months) and my post about the strengths of the DMR versus the BR to a pro-BR player?

 

 

 

The Pistol as the starting weapon allows for more

1) Mastery (slightly more difficult, skill-wise, medium range battles)

2) Meaningful Choices (Do I want x weapon instead of my starting weapon? What are the trade-offs?)

3) Evolution of gameplay (More sandbox diversity.)

4) Evolution of player styles (Aggro / pushing players probably like the better close range weapon, passive players probably like the rifles.)

 

In exchange for:

A marginal amount of counterplay when the enemy team all have rifles (though the pistol kills equally as fast as DMR and faster than the BR, and can fight back at most ranges on Arena-sized maps.)

 

The Pistol as the starting weapon is outright better game design, period. I'm not arguing against that.

No I was replying to when you said "how do you know the pistol is more difficult to use". I'm glad you are pro pistol but some of your reasons I personally don't agree with (not saying you are wrong by any means just that I don't like what happens to the game). For example, more sandbox diversity is always a good thing. But having all these rifles that are better than your pistol is a problem. It now makes the gunfights uneven when you respawn. The fights become more about having different utility weapons not pistol skill. Why should the guy camping in the back be rewarded by getting a DMR and having no one be able to contest him? He should have to use the pistol and get good enough with that so he can outshoot someone based on skill. Having all these rifles that are better at different ranges is literally the CoD method of balance. If the pistol isn't a dominant utility weapon then this game will most likely play awkwardly.

 

I am pro pistol because it is the most skillful weapon. Why take away from that with rifles that beat it with minimal skill?

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No I was replying to when you said "how do you know the pistol is more difficult to use". I'm glad you are pro pistol but some of your reasons I personally don't agree with (not saying you are wrong by any means just that I don't like what happens to the game). For example, more sandbox diversity is always a good thing. But having all these rifles that are better than your pistol is a problem. It now makes the gunfights uneven when you respawn. The fights become more about having different utility weapons not pistol skill. Why should the guy camping in the back be rewarded by getting a DMR and having no one be able to contest him? He should have to use the pistol and get good enough with that so he can outshoot someone based on skill. Having all these rifles that are better at different ranges is literally the CoD method of balance. If the pistol isn't a dominant utility weapon then this game will most likely play awkwardly.

 

I am pro pistol because it is the most skillful weapon. Why take away from that with rifles that beat it with minimal skill?

 

Except the guy hanging in the back isn't "rewarded for grabbing a DMR and having no one be able to contest him."

 

He's electing to use the longest range weapon with the expense of having a limited availability of sightlines at which he can abuse its power.  If he's utilizing it in the safest power positions on Truth, he's greatly limiting his mobility (base windows) in exchange for that range increase.

 

The DMR isn't outright stronger in a one on one battle -- in fact, the pistol has an even kill time with it!  And for the MAJORITY of sightlines in the game, the Pistol can actually fight at that range.  The exceptions tend to be tied around fully cross-map sightlines (which, I have on good authority the pistol can shoot tower-to-tower on Truth, if that's any indication of its effective range for you.)

 

If the person wielding the DMR stops to reload, he's taken out of combat for longer than a person with a pistol (granted, pistol has shallower clip and can score less kills per clip, but after one on one battles, you're not actively punished for reloading.)

 

 

Gunfights aren't "uneven when you respawn" when all the weapons have similar kill times, capable (but not EQUAL) ranges, and the spawning system works.  And even if they were, it's not actually relevant unless drastic.  The problem Halo 2 had with SMG/Magnum starts was that generally, the Battle Rifles were already in the strongest positions, so if you killed a player and grabbed a BR, he's not only spawning in a bad location, but he's at a weapon disadvantage.  Take Lockout for instance.  The BR spawned at the top of one of the strongest positions on the map, with 3 clips of ammo.  What if, instead, the BR spawned at BR1 and on Elbow, with only 2 clips of Ammo?  Now, when you've killed a player and taken over a power position, you only have about one clip of ammo left.  And it's likely that player will spawn in a reasonable location to pick up their own BR to fight you.  And this is just in a game where there was an ENORMOUS discrepancy between the rifle and the starting auto+pistol.  Halo 5 doesn't have that discrepancy.  The pistol is a capable fucking weapon.  There are niches where the Battle Rifle and DMR are marginally superior, but those niches aren't pronounced heavily on arena-sized maps.

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Except the guy hanging in the back isn't "rewarded for grabbing a DMR and having no one be able to contest him."

 

He's electing to use the longest range weapon with the expense of having a limited availability of sightlines at which he can abuse its power. If he's utilizing it in the safest power positions on Truth, he's greatly limiting his mobility (base windows) in exchange for that range increase.

 

The DMR isn't outright stronger in a one on one battle -- in fact, the pistol has an even kill time with it! And for the MAJORITY of sightlines in the game, the Pistol can actually fight at that range. The exceptions tend to be tied around fully cross-map sightlines (which, I have on good authority the pistol can shoot tower-to-tower on Truth, if that's any indication of its effective range for you.)

 

If the person wielding the DMR stops to reload, he's taken out of combat for longer than a person with a pistol (granted, pistol has shallower clip and can score less kills per clip, but after one on one battles, you're not actively punished for reloading.)

 

 

Gunfights aren't "uneven when you respawn" when all the weapons have similar kill times, capable (but not EQUAL) ranges, and the spawning system works. And even if they were, it's not actually relevant unless drastic. The problem Halo 2 had with SMG/Magnum starts was that generally, the Battle Rifles were already in the strongest positions, so if you killed a player and grabbed a BR, he's not only spawning in a bad location, but he's at a weapon disadvantage. Take Lockout for instance. The BR spawned at the top of one of the strongest positions on the map, with 3 clips of ammo. What if, instead, the BR spawned at BR1 and on Elbow, with only 2 clips of Ammo? Now, when you've killed a player and taken over a power position, you only have about one clip of ammo left. And it's likely that player will spawn in a reasonable location to pick up their own BR to fight you. And this is just in a game where there was an ENORMOUS discrepancy between the rifle and the starting auto+pistol. Halo 5 doesn't have that discrepancy. The pistol is a capable fucking weapon. There are niches where the Battle Rifle and DMR are marginally superior, but those niches aren't pronounced heavily on arena-sized maps.

The rifles have more AA and RRR. That right there is a pretty huge difference. If you had The Halo 2 BR and the Halo 2 BR with H3 AA which Gun would be better? Perfect kill times aren't the deciding factor. A DMR user in the back of the map will murder a pistol user with a lot less skill. The winner of a fight should be the more skilled shooter not the person with the easier rifle.

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If you had The Halo 2 BR and the Halo 2 BR with H3 AA which Gun would be better?

 

Why the fuck would I want the aim assist from a gun designed to be a projectile weapon put onto a hitscan weapon?

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Why the fuck would I want the aim assist from a gun designed to be a projectile weapon put onto a hitscan weapon?

The point is that AA has a huge impact on how good a gun is. In H5 the pistol has much lower AA and in turn should have a way faster ttk that the easy to use rifles. Otherwise it is completely unbalanced. In the case of the BR's Halo 2 has a lot more AA making it a much better choice over Halo 3 AA. Perfect ttk is not the only thing that matters.
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Did not vote. I still think the starting weapons should coincide with the map. This would create much more diversity in competitive Halo. Empire small map small sight lines would be pistol starts. Fathom is bigger with more sight lines would be BR starts. Any map bigger then that could be DMR starts.

Not a bad idea to be honest.

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You are trying to tell me that a pro, or pro's told you what you said above. Either they were trolling you or you are lying. 0% chance that anything else is the case. Pro's know better, hope I get down voted for saying this. Will be funny to talk about.

I'm not going to waste my time sourcing those quotes for you but I'm pretty sure anyone who was around the forums or Twitter could vouch for what I said.

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