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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

850 members have voted

  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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Probably because the pros haven't had enough time with the game to notice its extremely fast kill time.

 

Also, it'd be used more to combat overshields, if they weren't burned immediately, 90% of the time.

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Also, it'd be used more to combat overshields, if they weren't burned immediately, 90% of the time.

Definitely doing some Oversheild stats tonight :D
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Am I the only one loves everything about the pistol except it's god awful sound design? I'd honestly vote Gravity Hammer starts over pistol starts if the sound design isn't changed.

 

It's a little dissapointing to see 0 Storm Rifles kills in Infinity's stats.

 

After Halo 4's gun audio, I no longer waste time complaining about Halo gun audio.

 

The BR sounded like a goddamn rapid-fire stapler.

 

I had a hashtag I tweeted out daily... #ThingsThatSoundBetterThanHalo4Guns and would tweet things that sounded terrible.

 

 

 

 

I used to be a big BR fanboy but I'm 100% converted to pistols after gamescom. So many doors have been opened for me having BRs and DMRs on the map as situational weapon choices. Also that pistol has a gunskill gap from the floor to the ceiling.

 
Welcome to the side of logic.
 
People don't realize/acknowledge how BIG the gap between BR and initial automatic+Magnum were in Halo 2-Reach...versus how capable the Magnum actually is in H5.
 
The Magnum works at medium range.  Medium range, by my definition, is at least base-to-tower on most arena maps, perhaps a bit farther on the smaller map options.  Anything longer than that, sure, the BR or DMR should be a little better.  Anything closer than that, the Magnum's faster kill time makes it the better choice.  If you make smart moves or flank while the BR/DMR user is focused cross-map, you're going to shred him.
 
At the same time, there's room for player identity, where aggressive players like Roy or APG will probably prefer to be in your face with a pistol, while more passive players will prefer to snag the rifles to be able to rain support fire from long range.
 
 
The main reason the Pistol wasn't a good option in the Beta is due to flinch/recoil the gun had, that we were told was going to be removed.  It got removed.  The Pistol is the best option for the healthiest metagame now -- there's only a slight tradeoff in counterplay options off spawn, since, again, the Pistol's range is good enough to get kills at least halfway across most maps.  If you're getting killed from farther than that, it's less the weapon's fault and more the spawn placements, for putting you too far out of cover.
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After Halo 4's gun audio, I no longer waste time complaining about Halo gun audio.

 

The BR sounded like a goddamn rapid-fire stapler.

 

I had a hashtag I tweeted out daily... #ThingsThatSoundBetterThanHalo4Guns and would tweet things that sounded terrible.

 

The DMR was decent at least.

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In this state it's both easier to use and from what I saw the kill times were identical. 

exactly why it's objectively the worse choice of the two, it's a crutch

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After Halo 4's gun audio, I no longer waste time complaining about Halo gun audio.

 

The BR sounded like a goddamn rapid-fire stapler.

 

I had a hashtag I tweeted out daily... #ThingsThatSoundBetterThanHalo4Guns and would tweet things that sounded terrible.

 

 

 

 
 
Welcome to the side of logic.
 
People don't realize/acknowledge how BIG the gap between BR and initial automatic+Magnum were in Halo 2-Reach...versus how capable the Magnum actually is in H5.
 
The Magnum works at medium range.  Medium range, by my definition, is at least base-to-tower on most arena maps, perhaps a bit farther on the smaller map options.  Anything longer than that, sure, the BR or DMR should be a little better.  Anything closer than that, the Magnum's faster kill time makes it the better choice.  If you make smart moves or flank while the BR/DMR user is focused cross-map, you're going to shred him.
 
At the same time, there's room for player identity, where aggressive players like Roy or APG will probably prefer to be in your face with a pistol, while more passive players will prefer to snag the rifles to be able to rain support fire from long range.
 
 
The main reason the Pistol wasn't a good option in the Beta is due to flinch/recoil the gun had, that we were told was going to be removed.  It got removed.  The Pistol is the best option for the healthiest metagame now -- there's only a slight tradeoff in counterplay options off spawn, since, again, the Pistol's range is good enough to get kills at least halfway across most maps.  If you're getting killed from farther than that, it's less the weapon's fault and more the spawn placements, for putting you too far out of cover.

 

 

If someone like Roy or APG played H5 smart, which they obviously will be, they'll get rid of the pistol as soon they can. The DMR is literally a better pistol, and they'll snag a SMG or shotgun as soon as they can to be king at short range, now vastly superior to the pistol/ar at all ranges.

Every time a player did this in the exhibition they dominated, and as soon as the meta develops this willl only become more and more pronounced.

This might be the best version of "pick up a better utility weapon " halo, but once the meta evolves I am fairly sure no player that wants to win will linger around with a pistol longer than they absolutely have to.

 

Slightly tangential, but this is also why I was one of those two "crazy people" that voted for the DMR. Why have something objectively better than the pistol on the map and make it a trivial choice to pick up when its not a power weapon that is being fought over control for?

The "aiming skill-gap" (which I feel people are exaggerating in any case) that you lose is in my opinion worth empowering the individual to be effective at all ranges.

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Looking at this post makes me even more happy i sold my xbox for a ps4 smh.

 

Thanks for sharing your interesting opinion.

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If someone like Roy or APG played H5 smart, which they obviously will be, they'll get rid of the pistol as soon they can. The DMR is literally a better pistol, and they'll snag a SMG or shotgun as soon as they can to be king at short range, now vastly superior to the pistol/ar at all ranges.

Every time a player did this in the exhibition they dominated, and as soon as the meta develops this willl only become more and more pronounced.

This might be the best version of "pick up a better utility weapon " halo, but once the meta evolves I am fairly sure no player that wants to win will linger around with a pistol longer than they absolutely have to.

 

Slightly tangential, but this is also why I was one of those two "crazy people" that voted for the DMR. Why have something objectively better than the pistol on the map and make it a trivial choice to pick up when its not a power weapon that is being fought over control for?

The "aiming skill-gap" (which I feel people are exaggerating in any case) that you lose is in my opinion worth empowering the individual to be effective at all ranges.

making things easier for everyone is the exact opposite of empowering the individual. we've already seen vids showing dmr is significantly easier to 5shot than the pistol. having everyone start with an easier to shoot, effective at all ranges version of the pistol we have now with a higher kill time will just lead to more teamshots and stagnant gameplay. 

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AR Starts xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDeadgame.

 

You think BR starts will be any better homeslice? Read Infinity's post and educate yourself fool.

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I'm personally coming round to the idea of pistol starts. Although with regards to pistol only vs. AR+pistol I would go for pistol only. The only positive for AR that people have presented is about the transition from default settings, that transition will only be harder if they run around all day with the AR getting pooped on by pistol players.

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making things easier for everyone is the exact opposite of empowering the individual. we've already seen vids showing dmr is significantly easier to 5shot than the pistol. having everyone start with an easier to shoot, effective at all ranges version of the pistol we have now with a higher kill time will just lead to more teamshots and stagnant gameplay.

 

No it is not the exact opposite. If the average kill time is too high to be useful against people actually trying, aiming skill gap becomes moot.

If I can actually do damage to people alone, I can make plays by myself, hence empowering the individual.

 

Missing half of your shots in CE (6sk) is just as fast as hitting a perfect 5 sk in H5. Imagine the CE pistol would have been replaced with the H5 pistol. The game wouldn't be nearly as good, because everybody would take forever to kill, and you couldn't shot people across many of the maps sightlines.

I am also not saying that the DMR would have done better than the h5 pistol in CE, so lets get that out of the way before someone starts theorycrafting the hell out of my obviously imperfect make-shift example.

 

The important thing  to take away is the following:

In my opinion, there are three requirements a weapon has  to meet be a good utility weapon and a starting weapon.

 

1. Large difference between average and perfect killtime

2. Sufficient average kill time to encourage positioning while not stifling map movement

3. Sufficient range to encourage positioning

 

The Pistol beats the DMR in category 1, but not in category 2 or 3. Furthermore in regards to point 1, they are both single shot, so the most important shot is the hardest.

Most of the  h5 pistol kills either happened when someone was completely out of position, was weak and or getting team shot, or someone challenged and lost.

If that player had a DMR he could have punished people easier for being out of place ( and wouldn't have to be constantly reloading either) and at much further range.

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If someone like Roy or APG played H5 smart, which they obviously will be, they'll get rid of the pistol as soon they can. The DMR is literally a better pistol, and they'll snag a SMG or shotgun as soon as they can to be king at short range, now vastly superior to the pistol/ar at all ranges.

Every time a player did this in the exhibition they dominated, and as soon as the meta develops this willl only become more and more pronounced.

This might be the best version of "pick up a better utility weapon " halo, but once the meta evolves I am fairly sure no player that wants to win will linger around with a pistol longer than they absolutely have to.

 

Slightly tangential, but this is also why I was one of those two "crazy people" that voted for the DMR. Why have something objectively better than the pistol on the map and make it a trivial choice to pick up when its not a power weapon that is being fought over control for?

The "aiming skill-gap" (which I feel people are exaggerating in any case) that you lose is in my opinion worth empowering the individual to be effective at all ranges.

 

Eh, the DMR isn't that fun to use at close ranges... sort of clunky from the beta, and Simms has said it's harder to use up close. Also, the Pistol has faster melee, reload, & switching weapons times... it's more of an all-around weapon than the DMR, IMO.

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let the game release THEN make this post relevant 

Yes, lets release the game, have it be terrible for weeks, lose players and then make the big changes.

 

That worked out GREAT for Halo 4.

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I actually don't know if we can judge the AR vs Pistol dynamic until we get more time with the game, the players at the tournament have yet to play the game for an a large extended amount of time.

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Yes, lets release the game, have it be terrible for weeks, lose players and then make the big changes.

 

That worked out GREAT for Halo 4.

 

(Since we are talking about gametypes and not core settings)

Ever since H3, Halo has been releasing god awful settings. Shield door snowbound, team snipers on boneyard in the team slayer playlist in reach, Bungie always had to get their shit together after each release to make coherent playlist settings. 343 just continued that trend with H4.

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(Since we are talking about gametypes and not core settings)

Ever since H3, Halo has been releasing god awful settings. Shield door snowbound, team snipers on boneyard in the team slayer playlist in reach, Bungie always had to get their shit together after each release to make coherent playlist settings. 343 just continued that trend with H4.

 

I would argue that Bungie has even continued that trend on their own with Destiny...

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(Since we are talking about gametypes and not core settings)

Ever since H3, Halo has been releasing god awful settings. Shield door snowbound, team snipers on boneyard in the team slayer playlist in reach, Bungie always had to get their shit together after each release to make coherent playlist settings. 343 just continued that trend with H4.

Shield door Snowbound :kappa:

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what's the point of having a 343 pro team if not for situations like this? The pro team has had and will have the most time played on the H5 builds and since all of them were former pros they should be giving their insight on what they think on topic of discussions like these, the fact that their not might be because they might not be allowed too but which is also why we are having so many differing opinions.'

 

Looking at the poll from this community at least we want either Pistol or BR start, that much is obvious. Can I ask though why is secondary being debated on at all? We've never had a secondary except on halo 1 so do we need a secondary or do we just want one because we have such a huge sandbox to choose from?

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Eh, the DMR isn't that fun to use at close ranges... sort of clunky from the beta, and Simms has said it's harder to use up close. Also, the Pistol has faster melee, reload, & switching weapons times... it's more of an all-around weapon than the DMR, IMO.

 

People keep saying that the DMR was easy at close range. I must have forgotten every beyond player is a halo god.

 

I fully believe that a DMR-only start would be reasonably viable.

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