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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

850 members have voted

  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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I love how everyone is ignoring Infinity's numbers... do we really need CoachMayne to tell us what they mean at this point?

 

Yes, ARs aren't that skillful, but this isn't as big of a deal as we're making it out to be.

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The only reason at this point that I'd want a 4sk Pistol over an increased RoF 5sk Pistol is because then we would have 3 kills in the gun again. H5 being hard to shoot and Pistol not being that good at range (lets be honest not good at all) I really hate the idea of not getting 2 kills with the Pistol if I miss more than 16.7% of my shots. On the upside changing weapons and reload speeds are both pretty fast from what I could tell, not 100% on that though.

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I love how everyone is ignoring Infinity's numbers... do we really need CoachMayne to tell us what they mean at this point?

 

Yes, ARs aren't that skillful, but this isn't as big of a deal as we're making it out to be.

They aren't skillful at all, they require no skill. If we have a weapon we spawn with that requires no skill that beats the Utility weapon at close to mid range then the game becomes significantly less skillful. 100 times less skillful than H4. Pistol needs a buff that beats the AR kill time by a decent amount and makes its kills per clip/magazine better than 2.4 kills per clip/magazine. Preferably 3 or more.

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It is?

It isn't at this point. If it is then great, if it isn't and we have to use it, GG H5

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It isn't at this point. If it is then great, if it isn't and we have to use it, GG H5

Yes, it is at this point. Don't let Beta gameplay cloud your judgment. A Perfect pistol kill beats an AR at any range and the ARs actual useful range isn't far at all. Once you get past the closest ranges then AR dominates. BR is obviously stronger than Pistol so it's even easier to beat out an AR.

 

In the Beta it was an entirely different story, AR was super random with headshot multipliers but after the post beta nerfs it's pretty awful.

 

SMG at Gamescom was a problem though.

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Dude AR needs to be literally worse in every single situation possible vs the Utility weapon because it takes infinite times less skill than every the Pistol and the BR, watching someone use the AR in competitive Halo is the most disgusting think I have seen in Competitive Halo. I will only accept it if it is weaker than the Pistol and BR at every range. 

you know what does take skill? Positioning yourself in a spot where you can't be killed by an AR. We even have thruster packs to help us wreck AR kids. Plus there is the skill of whipping it out in those niche situations. 

 

Infinities stats seriously tell us that the AR really isn't a huge problem. Its kinda like how you always notice someones mistakes instead of what they did right, its human nature. 

 

For the record I still think the pistol should have some sort of buff, but wouldn't really mind it if it stayed like it was in gamescom. 

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I love how everyone is ignoring Infinity's numbers... do we really need CoachMayne to tell us what they mean at this point?

 

127.gif

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I love how everyone is ignoring Infinity's numbers... do we really need CoachMayne to tell us what they mean at this point?

 

Yes, ARs aren't that skillful, but this isn't as big of a deal as we're making it out to be.

 

All those numbers prove is that AR's (probably) don't ruin the game.

 

However, you guys are arguing for their inclusion. Multiple people have asked what positive things the AR brings to the table and there hasn't been a convincing argument yet.

 

 The AR not ruining the gameplay is not an argument for its inclusion.

 

 Now let's hear your reason.

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I really hope people read that post before they reply. It can be debated but please read it all first.

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long post

 

I appreciate the fact that alot of work obviously went into this post.

 

I have a few comments:

 

I disagree with combining grenades and melees in one category. They are completly different types of kills, and every (iirc) halo has recognized this by seperating grenade kills and melee kills in the stat screen. A map with too many grenade or melee kills could easily be considered normal if the other balances it out, so I would strongly consider counting those seperatly.

 

Further, and much more important, having these kill breakdowns is nice, but by themselves they don't really mean anything.

People are obviously comparing the H5 sandbox with other halos, and if we don't have any weapon breakdowns for those, all we can do is argue with gut feeling. This is why I don't believe it is legitimate to claim "AR's werent used much" or "rifles were used just the right amount" because there are no hard numbers this is being compared with.

 

 

Formatting wise, the blue font on the dark theme is making my eyes bleed, so please consider using a different color.

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...and then the two goons that voted for DMR starts.

 

6cwz4ll.gif

 

(just messing, I respect everyones opinion)

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I appreciate the fact that alot of work obviously went into this post.

 

I have a few comments:

 

I disagree with combining grenades and melees in one category. They are completly different types of kills, and every (iirc) halo has recognized this by seperating grenade kills and melee kills in the stat screen. A map with too many grenade or melee kills could easily be considered normal if the other balances it out, so I would strongly consider counting those seperatly.

 

Further, and much more important, having these kill breakdowns is nice, but by themselves they don't really mean anything.

People are obviously comparing the H5 sandbox with other halos, and if we don't have any weapon breakdowns for those, all we can do is argue with gut feeling. This is why I'm don't believe it is legitimate to claim "AR's werent used much" or "rifles were used just the right amount" because there are no hard numbers this is being compared with.

 

 

Formatting wise, the blue font on the dark theme is making my eyes bleed, so please consider using a different color.

Ah sorry about the colors. I posted on PC and immediately switched back to mobile which is a white background. I'll try to fix in the morning.

 

I didn't really know what to do for Grenades and Melees, it's a big gray area. I like to think of it less as 'Grenades and Melees' and more of just 'General Combat'. There were way too many combinations of Weapons used for these kills so to be fair it's easier just to lump them together as generic gameplay. I get what you mean though.

 

Well obviously we can compare to H2 and H3 which were 90%+ BRs and then of course Snipers/Rockets and the occasional Shotgun/Mauler/Sword. Those games had no weapon diversity.

 

It would definitely be interesting to see the weapon diversity for Halo 1 considering the sandbox is a bit more useful in that game, but I still think that the Pistol would heavily dominate most of the non power weapons. You also have to factor in the really fast static timers.

 

All in all, H1 is an entirely different beast and it's evident that we are never going back in that direction to its entirety. However, I do think Halo 5 has adopted some really strong traits from CE and improved on them, such as a good utility weapon that encourages picking up weapons on map (probably even more so this time around). And low aim assist, etc.

 

Halo 5 seems to be taking some of the best elements from all of the games and changing them to create something that will be a unique competitive Halo.

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@@Infinity, well done. That was a well written post, and I don't usually see that often from you. :wutface:  :ghost:

But yeah, I guess I reside in the CE Elitest category. Honestly, teamshooting is going to happen in a 4v4 setting, and I understand that. What I don't want is needing to teamshoot so that I don't have half shields after one battle. If that is performed in H5, then I will like the game.

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Colorful Wall

 

First: thank you for this pretty good post and the work you put into it. I am sure it gives some here another look at it.

 

 

"BR Fanboys" - People whose judgement is clouded

"People who are voting for the BR are really not looking deeper into what the current loadout options present."

 

Not a big fan of this. I hope with the BR Fanboys you only mean some specific people here and not every one that votes for it.

I was reading literally every single of this 937 posts with an open mind + a few in the H5G thread. I am still for the BR. I enjoyed its gameplay and I didnt enjoy what I saw at the Gamescom.

 

Maybe I am just misreading a bit what you say here, but I feel a bit offended for having another opinion.

 

 

"CE Elitists" - People who dive deep into the kill times, supporting a fast optimal kill time and a slower average kill time

 

I am probably jumping into a pool of sharks by saying this. But I have to. I am completly fine with that^, but out of some posts, the Elitism is shining out to much for my taste. Calling everything after CE trash and justify many things with "it was like that in CE"

I feel like there are bad apples on both sides but thats just my opinion.

 

 

There is the extreme intellectual and individual skill focused gameplay of CE, and there is the team coordination and teamshooting reliance of Halo 3.

 

Two totally different ways of enjoying Halo. None of them is wrong or right.

Personally I would enjoy to have a middle ground.

 

I dont want everything to depend on my teammates and teamshot, while at the same time I want it to be rewarded. I think H2 and even THE 4 did good on this? You can go completly beserk by yourself in THE 4 while teamshot is stil rewarded. If the aim would have been harder like in Halo 5 I think it could have been good this way. For my taste at least.

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First: thank you this pretty good post and the work you put into it. I am sure it gives some here another look at it.

 

 

Not a big fan of this. I hope with the BR Fanboys you only mean some specific people here and not every one that votes for it.

I was reading literally every single of this 937 posts with an open mind + a few in the H5G thread. I am still for the BR. I enjoyed its gameplay and I didnt enjoy what I saw at the Gamescom.

 

Maybe I am just misreading a bit what you say here, but I feel a bit offended for having another opinion.

 

 

I am probably jumping into a pool of sharks by saying this. But I have to. I am completly fine with that^, but out of some posts, the Elitism is shining out to much for my taste. Calling everything after CE trash and justify many things with "it was like that in CE"

I feel like there are bad apples on both sides but thats just my opinion.

 

 

Two totally different ways of enjoying Halo. None of them is wrong or right.

Personally I would enjoy to have a middle ground.

 

I dont want everything to depend on my teammates and teamshot, while at the same time I want it to be rewarded. I think H2 and even THE 4 did good on this? You can go completly beserk by yourself in THE 4 while teamshot is stil rewarded. If the aim would have been harder like in Halo 5 I think it could have been good this way. For my taste at least.

First of all, thank you for using the correct terminology. You will not be banned for 7 days. I agree entirely. Other than their absurd amount of aim assist, Halo 2 and THE 4 do land in the solid middle ground. In fact if the aim assist were to be lowered it would be even more the case. Halo 5 seems to be heading in this direction.

 

As for the BR statements, I definitely didn't mean to offend, granted you understand the difference between the weapons and logic behind both. I don't want to rip on anyone, but Gunplex's BR uprising yesterday was completely misguided and people like that refuse to listen to another side of a debate. Not meaning to rip into all BR fans, just want everyone to know what the result would be of picking their respective starting weapon.

 

As for CE Superfans I agree with what you said. I respect the game and it's fundamentals a lot but there is a long history of competitive Halo that proceeded after CE that a lot of people have come to love, so I can't completely stand by people's side who can't look at both groups and understand what is good about each.

 

P.S. Great response. Props for the respect

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@@Infinity Regarding the Pistol not being underpowered... That's just you're opinion, man. If it ain't over powered, it's under powered. :kappa:

 

In all serious though, great post. Really shows the game is pretty solid in its current state at the highest level.

 

 

OT: Can some one explain to me what the hell "kappa" means?

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@@Infinity Regarding the Pistol not being underpowered... That's just you're opinion, man. If it ain't over powered, it's under powered. :kappa:

 

In all serious though, great post. Really shows the game is pretty solid in its current state at the highest level.

 

 

OT: Can some one explain to me what the hell "kappa" means?

Yup. As I pointed out in the TTK section, Pistol strength is entirely dependent on your preferential Halo style. Agree to disagree at this point but I'm glad you get where I'm coming from.

 

Kappa is a face on Twitch that originated from JustinTV. It's used when you want to indicate slight sarcasm.

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@@Infinity Regarding the Pistol not being underpowered... That's just you're opinion, man. If it ain't over powered, it's under powered. :kappa:

 

In all serious though, great post. Really shows the game is pretty solid in its current state at the highest level.

 

 

OT: Can some one explain to me what the hell "kappa" means?

 

Kappa mean sarcasm. It's a guy who worked at Twitch who was really edgy. Therefore Kappa means Edgy/Sarcasm

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OT: Can some one explain to me what the hell "kappa" means?

 

Kappa is an Italian sportswear brand founded in 1967 in Turin, Italy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:kappa:

 

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I used to be a big BR fanboy but I'm 100% converted to pistols after gamescom. So many doors have been opened for me having BRs and DMRs on the map as situational weapon choices. Also that pistol has a gunskill gap from the floor to the ceiling.

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And that's what the pistol is for. It's basically a rifle with a pistol skin

 

Except for the fact that it's 1 pistol to all cqc weps.

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Am I the only one loves everything about the pistol except it's god awful sound design? I'd honestly vote Gravity Hammer starts over pistol starts if the sound design isn't changed.

 

It's a little dissapointing to see 0 Storm Rifles kills in Infinity's stats.

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It's a little dissapointing to see 0 Storm Rifles kills in Infinity's stats.

 

Probably because the pros haven't had enough time with the game to notice its extremely fast kill time.

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