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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

850 members have voted

  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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But that just rewards the people who can't use the pistol. They'll still have a chance against someone even if they are going against the best pistol user in the game. If everyone had to use the pistol the best people would have a much bigger advantage since worse people can't pick up a rifle to get an easier weapon.

So do you think 343 should just remove the rifles in arena?

 

EDIT: I guess I should put in a reason why I think they should maybe still be in arena. If there's long sightlines that the pistol has literally zero aim assist in, I think rifles should be able to fit that role so you can still fight a sniper effectively.

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So do you think 343 should just remove the rifles in arena?

I do. But they definitely won't do that so the next best thing is to make the pistols ttk lower so that the rifles aren't so similar to the pistol. Because as of now the rifles are better.

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Post ignored. Kappa.

 

44 Pistol kills to 4 AR kills, everyone.

 

That is really surprising. I guess me (and others) tend to focus on the more negative things when watching footage  :wutface:

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I do. But they definitely won't do that so the next best thing is to make the pistols ttk lower so that the rifles aren't so similar to the pistol. Because as of now the rifles are better.

They're better in our limited experience, but if it's possible to practice with the pistol to be more consistent, then do you think it really matters?

 

Like what if Ghost is better with the pistol than the rest of the pro team is with the rifles, which is why Quinn may not think the pistol needs a buff. Obviously I have nothing to back this up, it's just a hypothetical, but if it's true that a similar situation has arisen, then I think the pistol may be fine as is, and the other rifles may be fine as well. If the pistol is too much better than the rifles then the rifles are almost useless and then why have them?

 

Which, if you want them to be removed, then maybe that's the point you're trying to get across to me.

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That is really surprising. I guess me (and others) tend to focus on the more negative things when watching footage :wutface:

Yup. Gonna make a full breakdown post tonight but here are some AR/Pistol stats.

 

Epsilon v Supremacy - Game 2 Fathom (50 - 27): 42 Pistol Kills and 7 AR Kills

 

OpTic vs. Supremacy - Game 2 Fathom (50 - 41?): 36 Pistol and 8 AR

 

Epsilon vs. Supremacy - Game 5 Empire (50 - 46): 44 Pistol and 4 AR

 

Shotgun nerf that they talked about was perfect, hopefully the no bloom SMG was a bug.

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They're better in our limited experience, but if it's possible to practice with the pistol to be more consistent, then do you think it really matters?

 

Like what if Ghost is better with the pistol than the rest of the pro team is with the rifles, which is why Quinn may not think the pistol needs a buff. Obviously I have nothing to back this up, it's just a hypothetical, but if it's true that a similar situation has arisen, then I think the pistol may be fine as is, and the other rifles may be fine as well. If the pistol is too much better than the rifles then the rifles are almost useless and then why have them?

 

Which, if you want them to be removed, then maybe that's the point you're trying to get across to me.

Yea I believe the pistol should be the go to utility weapon and we shouldn't provide ways for people to get kills with a weapon just because it's easier. For instance the BR's perfect ttk is like .08 seconds longer than the pistol and is a lot easier to use. So if a guy with a BR fires that much quicker than a guy with the pistol he is practically guaranteed the kill. Since the pistol is so much harder to use it should have a way faster perfect ttk so that the only reason you would pick up a rifle is because it is easy to team shoot with. As far as a competitive environment I don't think those rifles should be in there at all for the exact reason I just mentioned (I know it's weird). In comp play you want to heavily reward skillful players. Now, if someone is godly with the pistol they can really destroy people because they don't have an easy rifle to use. It would be all about rewarding a skillful pistol user. Sorry if I'm being confusing I hope I am explaining clearly.

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1 what aspect of the br is superior in terms of being a utility weapon compared to the pistol? the only thing it has going for it over the pistol is less STK.

 

2 you can't seriously argue that on the basis that it's easier to use, you know that right?

 

In this state it's both easier to use and from what I saw the kill times were identical. 

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I do. But they definitely won't do that so the next best thing is to make the pistols ttk lower so that the rifles aren't so similar to the pistol. Because as of now the rifles are better.

 

That would create more problems for cqc being overkill I think unless the pistol was completely OP. It's either 4SK pistol balanced with the rifles by itself or BR starts. 

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That would create more problems for cqc being overkill I think unless the pistol was completely OP. It's either 4SK pistol balanced with the rifles by itself or BR starts.

I don't understand your reasoning. Having a pistol only makes cqc more skillful since you still have to aim or time your punch. Also what do you mean balanced with the rifles? As in prefect ttk or average ttk? Because as of now they are balanced in regards to perfect ttk but that makes it unbalanced at the same time.

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Does anyone know what happened to the previous Halo 5 Starting Weapons thread?

 

I was looking through my old posts and through all the back pages, but I don't see it anywhere.

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Yup. Gonna make a full breakdown post tonight but here are some AR/Pistol stats.

 

Epsilon v Supremacy - Game 2 Fathom (50 - 27): 42 Pistol Kills and 7 AR Kills

 

OpTic vs. Supremacy - Game 2 Fathom (50 - 41?): 36 Pistol and 8 AR

 

Epsilon vs. Supremacy - Game 5 Empire (50 - 46): 44 Pistol and 4 AR

 

Shotgun nerf that they talked about was perfect, hopefully the no bloom SMG was a bug.

You're counting AR kills as SMG and AR kills right? 

 

To add to the discussion, we are all speculating weapon starts based off of 3 teams with a relatively short time to figure out things about the game. I am very confident that they were playing at around 40% (random guess) of what "optimal" skill level is in halo 5. The real things we should worry about now is the weapon placements and map flow, because it was terrible in the tournament, and is the reason why shotguns and SMG's were used so much. Those things are WAY more important then us arguing about weapon starts (which will be AR/Pistol for season 3)

 

Edit: I know that this whole thread is dedicated for weapon starts 

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You're counting AR kills as SMG and AR kills right?

 

To add to the discussion, we are all speculating weapon starts based off of 3 teams with a relatively short time to figure out things about the game. I am very confident that they were playing at around 40% (random guess) of what "optimal" skill level is in halo 5. The real things we should worry about now is the weapon placements and map flow, because it was terrible in the tournament, and is the reason why shotguns and SMG's were used so much. Those things are WAY more important then us arguing about weapon starts (which will be AR/Pistol for season 3)

Nope, SMGs are a separate category. After collecting some of this data I personally believe that AR/Pistol balance is in a good place. However, SMG was either buffed or bugged for the Gamescom build.

 

Weapon placement for the most part was pretty decent (it's already locked in so its too late to change), and map flow on Fathom looked good. Empire was a little messy but I blame that on tons of Shotgun ammo and an overpowered SMG.

 

SMGs are meant to be a little bit stronger since they are an on map pickup, comparable to the BR/DMR (both of which have a really nice place in these stats).

 

And the teams had 2-3 days of continuous practice on the maps. They learned what was broken in that build and adjusted to it. There is a reason that they camped Shotgun on Empire and barely used the Plasma Caster. There was probably a lot of discussion as to what was the best strategy.

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Nope, SMGs are a separate category. After collecting some of this data I personally believe that AR/Pistol balance is in a good place. However, SMG was either buffed or bugged for the Gamescom build.

 

Weapon placement for the most part was pretty decent (it's already locked in so its too late to change), and map flow on Fathom looked good. Empire was a little messy but I blame that on tons of Shotgun ammo and an overpowered SMG.

It is?

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I don't understand your reasoning. Having a pistol only makes cqc more skillful since you still have to aim or time your punch. Also what do you mean balanced with the rifles? As in prefect ttk or average ttk? Because as of now they are balanced in regards to perfect ttk but that makes it unbalanced at the same time.

 

Removing rifles would impact cqc.

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Removing rifles would impact cqc.

Yea it would make it better. If you have a BR/LR in cqc you can just face paint. If you have a carbine you can spam. With so many rifles there are too many variables in too many instances.

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I'd assume since they showed us pages from the Prima guide.

Can still change. It's not like they'll never change them because one layout is printed in a book.

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Can still change. It's not like they'll never change them because one layout is printed in a book.

True, but it just feels pretty concrete to me. I doubt they'd change it because of low level Pre release tourney gameplay.

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Weapon placement for the most part was pretty decent (it's already locked in so its too late to change), and map flow on Fathom looked good. Empire was a little messy but I blame that on tons of Shotgun ammo and an overpowered SMG.

 

I don't think weapon placement is good at all. The Shotgun is literally placed in the best spot you can have it in. It would be much better if they swapped the plasma caster spawn and shotgun spawns. 

 

I'm not really gonna go more in depth because this thread is dedicated for discussing weapon starts 

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I don't think weapon placement is good at all. The Shotgun is literally placed in the best spot you can have it in. It would be much better if they swapped the plasma caster spawn and shotgun spawns.

 

I'm not really gonna go more in depth because this thread is dedicated for discussing weapon starts

Shotgun was nerfed + OS and Plasma Caster closer to Outside. Plus I feel like Outside and Turbine are going to be so much more important in Objective modes. M

Feel free to tag me in the H5G thread if you want to discuss. Love talking weapon placements.

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Yea it would make it better. If you have a BR/LR in cqc you can just face paint. If you have a carbine you can spam. With so many rifles there are too many variables in too many instances.

 

I agree that there are too many variables at this point adding to convoluted gameplay but there needs to be rifles in gameplay. 

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I agree that there are too many variables at this point adding to convoluted gameplay but there needs to be rifles in gameplay.

In OpTics Fathom comeback (91 kill game) there were a combined 51 Precision Kills (Pistol/BR/DMR)

 

That isn't including Sniper, Grenades, or Melees.

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I agree that there are too many variables at this point adding to convoluted gameplay but there needs to be rifles in gameplay.

And that's what the pistol is for. It's basically a rifle with a pistol skin

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 What? Maybe I don't think Iunderstand what you want...do you doubt that competitive Halo startet with HCE (which used AR/Pistol)? Or do you think the AR had no impact on the gameplay? (good for short distance/melee, quick camo)

Dude AR needs to be literally worse in every single situation possible vs the Utility weapon because it takes infinite times less skill than every the Pistol and the BR, watching someone use the AR in competitive Halo is the most disgusting think I have seen in Competitive Halo. I will only accept it if it is weaker than the Pistol and BR at every range. 

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