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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

850 members have voted

  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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yeah let me guess the few who replied you guys are die hard halo 1 players lol. To be honest tons and tons of the competitive players really don't bother to check in on forums its just not in their weekly agenda. But all it takes is a few of us comp players to rally up loads of other comp players to go vote and put there input and link them this forum. Smh campaign kids, H1 old guys, and social matchmaking players. 

 

You're an idiot. Go away.

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Ok so I just realized win this voting poll and unify and capture all the BR voters under one is to have everyone switch their votes to BR+Pistol start. I really think since there is a split in these two BR voting sides its best to just unify all these voters and also the people who are stuck in between on making their mind, this gives the option for both.

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I would be very interested in you explaining how exactly the assault rifle made competitive halo.

Apparently the CE magnum didn't cut it alone, because you made a point of mentioning Pistol/AR's.

 

 What? Maybe I don't think Iunderstand what you want...do you doubt that competitive Halo startet with HCE (which used AR/Pistol)? Or do you think the AR had no impact on the gameplay? (good for short distance/melee, quick camo)

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Twitter is crazy about this right now haha, we just gotta wait and see what 343 actually chooses. I doubt this community poll is going to affect their decision.

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I would rather have BR/Pistol as-is over AR/Pistol as-is, but I'm keeping my vote because I want a 4sk pistol more than either.

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Twitter is crazy about this right now haha, we just gotta wait and see what 343 actually chooses. I doubt this community poll is going to affect their decision.

343 have already decided AR/Magnum starts as the universal settings for standard gametypes, along with HCS having the same settings beside the radar being shut off.

 

Magnum having a RoF buff, or a 4sk buff, are the most probable changes that will happen. BR starts most likely won't be looked at for a while, if at all.

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Reading a lot of these posts regarding wanting a pistol or AR start is just upsetting and depressing to read. People we are talking competitive halo here not a noob fest. If you're not good with the main gun and rifle in the game the BR then you should probably consider playing a different game or start a fun jumping clan. The BR has mainly been the starting weapon in almost every halo including the most popular halos ever (H2 and H3). I guarantee most of these people voting against BRs have been no where to be found competing like the rest of us in the recent halos.

 

My argument for casual gamers/gameplay having an easier transition to competitive halo is to make casual default halo gametypes to start with a BR. Don't destroy our competitive traditions built on years and years of gameplay and foundation.

 

What we really need to do to unify the BR voters is to have all players who voted BR+Pistol to switch your votes to BRs only. That will help us overcome this ar/pistol nonsense. *keep in mind there are other weapons on the map to pickup.

- Thank you

Goodnight

 

 

yeah let me guess the few who replied you guys are die hard halo 1 players lol. To be honest tons and tons of the competitive players really don't bother to check in on forums its just not in their weekly agenda. But all it takes is a few of us comp players to rally up loads of other comp players to go vote and put there input and link them this forum. Smh campaign kids, H1 old guys, and social matchmaking players. 

 

 

1) You give BR fans a bad name (not pros, since you're not top 8). The reasons you listed for BR starts are literally the worst possible reasons, ever. I could think of much more reasonable/intelligent arguments for BR starts - and I'm a pistol supporter. 

2) Love seeing @@Deez lurking, just repping away  :walshy:

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What are you, 12?

That's the defending H2A 1v1 PGL champion you're talking to emoticon-2868-src-5a7a81bb829e1a4c-28x28

 

1) You give BR fans a bad name (not pros, since you're not top 8). The reasons you listed for BR starts are literally the worst possible reasons, ever. I could think of much more reasonable/intelligent arguments for BR starts - and I'm a pistol supporter. 

I think his main issue is the AR which I can agree on, it's cringe worthy to think of the best Halo players shooting at each other with an AR for $1 mil. I think his views would be very different if this whole argument was strictly pistol vs BR with no AR in the equation, as would mine being a BR start supporter.

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That's the defending H2A 1v1 PGL champion you're talking to emoticon-2868-src-5a7a81bb829e1a4c-28x28

 

I think his main issue is the AR which I can agree on, it's cringe worthy to think of the best Halo players shooting at each other with an AR for $1 mil. I think his views would be very different if this whole argument was strictly pistol vs BR with no AR in the equation, as would mine being a BR start supporter.

 

Read his post again. He said "pistol or AR start", and was kneejerk BR-fanboying all over the place.

 

But I do agree that the AR/Pistol balance is off right now, and either Pistol needs a buff, or AR needs a nerf.

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Read his post again. He said "pistol or AR start", and was kneejerk BR-fanboying all over the place.

 

But I do agree that the AR/Pistol balance is off right now, and either Pistol needs a buff, or AR needs a nerf.

I'm sure he acknowledges that as it stands the pistol and AR go hand in hand. I'm sure he's competent enough to recognize that at no point has anyone considered AR's being the exclusive starting weapon in competitive settings.

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Him not wanting an AR to start is fine I agree 100% with him on that. But pushing for the BR because it was the starting weapon in H2 and H3? That's just stupid. I wouldn't even consider H3's BR an actual BR.

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Making a post later today, but ARs and a Pistol buff shouldn't really be our concern.

 

I recorded every kill from some of the games from the invitational, and for example, Empire Game 5 had 44 Pistol Kills and 4 AR Kills

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because it's only fair to include the option for both sides if you want to compare which weapon gets more votes. it's common sense, counting it for one and not the other is a logical fallacy

 

No it's not logical considering an opposing weapon set with a pistol in it as an alternative option to the BR. That's no segregation, that's completely irrelevant when speaking about opposing weapon sets. It's like me picking Boltshot starts with a BR secondary and saying that's a total of BR starts selected or picking a 3SK pistol with alternative BR starts where the BR is redundant. 

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Fast kill time and hard to use gun is all I am for in a game. But what will happen when you have a map full of weapons that will outgun the weapon that is suppose to be the utility weapon? The pistol will probably not win of a br, dmr, lr or carbine from a distance because the auto aim and magnetism will be better on the rifles then on the pistol so they will win gunfights at distance. I think you will get a roller coaster like Narrows TS (ar starts) was in halo 3. Every player knows to find a br when the game starts but after a while the team that keeps dying will not have riffles any more and get stuck with pistol that, yes its stronger, but will not be able to fight off the riffle team.

 

This is why the Pistol needs a buff to its Optimal TTK, whether it be in the form of a RoF or damage output. At its current ~1.2s Opt TTK, which is about even with the BR's OptTTK, this pistol will be outgunned in almost all situations due to its difficulty of use (which can be measured as Average TTK). When two weapons have the same Opt TTK, the weapon with the lower Average TTK is the superior weapon in a fight.

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Reading a lot of these posts regarding wanting a pistol or AR start is just upsetting and depressing to read. People we are talking competitive halo here not a noob fest. If you're not good with the main gun and rifle in the game the BR then you should probably consider playing a different game or start a fun jumping clan. The BR has mainly been the starting weapon in almost every halo including the most popular halos ever (H2 and H3). I guarantee most of these people voting against BRs have been no where to be found competing like the rest of us in the recent halos.

 

My argument for casual gamers/gameplay having an easier transition to competitive halo is to make casual default halo gametypes to start with a BR. Don't destroy our competitive traditions built on years and years of gameplay and foundation.

 

What we really need to do to unify the BR voters is to have all players who voted BR+Pistol to switch your votes to BRs only. That will help us overcome this ar/pistol nonsense. *keep in mind there are other weapons on the map to pickup.

- Thank you

Goodnight

You seem like another typical emotionally attached BR groupie. You seem like the type of person that only wants the BR as the starting weapon because it's your favorite weapon and nothing more. You don't even attempt to objectively look at Halo 5 and think critically about what's the best possible starting weapon for it. 

 

How about instead of being irrational and letting your emotions speak for you, you actually start being more rational and start thinking critically? Instead of writing off the pistol as the starting weapon purely just based on the fact that you like the BR more, you could actually give us some reasons to why you think the BR is a objectively better starting weapon than the pistol. 

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No it's not logical considering an opposing weapon set with a pistol in it as an alternative option to the BR. That's no segregation, that's completely irrelevant when speaking about opposing weapon sets. It's like me picking Boltshot starts with a BR secondary and saying that's a total of BR starts selected or picking a 3SK pistol with alternative BR starts where the BR is redundant. 

so because the pistol is secondary, br/pistols votes shouldn't count for it? the problem with that is as halo ce clearly demonstrates, whether a weapon is primary or secondary is entirely meaningless, especially since the pistol is on paper the better utility weapon.

 

the lengths you guys are going to spin the results of this poll is hilarious 

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I would rather have BR/Pistol as-is over AR/Pistol as-is, but I'm keeping my vote because I want a 4sk pistol more than either.

 

I just don't want to have AR 1v1s at this point. 

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so because the pistol is secondary, br/pistols votes shouldn't count for it? the problem with that is as halo ce clearly demonstrates, whether a weapon is primary or secondary is entirely meaningless, especially since the pistol is on paper the better utility weapon.

 

the lengths you guys are going to spin the results of this poll is hilarious 

 

 BR + Pistol doesn't count as pistol being a utility counter-product where the BR is superior in this current build where the H1 pistol is clearly superior to most weapons alike the BR + Pistol consideration. That is what I take into consideration when creating the division of options, you can't consider a BR + Pistol vote as a vote for pistols as a primary utility where the BR is more effective at this point. That is exactly why there are votes for BR starts and Pistol starts where your logic goes against that simply because of an attributing irrelevance.    

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Instead of discussing Pistol vs BR we should focus in the real issue here: Do we really need automatic starting weapon in competitive settings?

 

The only arguments i see people repeating are this:  

 

- Casuals need their AR to be interested in competitive play. 

 Counterargument: Casuals always will be casuals, nothing wrong with that, but when they start getting stomped in the HCS playlist they will move back to the easier playlists (with radar). Competitive people will adapt and get better with the precision weapons.

 

- Settings need to be close to vanilla to gain more players/viewers for the HCS.

  Counterargument: I agree with this idea, but in Halo 5 this argument is invalid, in past Halos the settings were too different for new players/casuals to easily understand what's going on. Halo 3: no equipment, different maps, weapon locations, player speed, etc. Halo Reach: no abilities, bloom, etc. Halo 4: No loadouts, crap from the sky, etc. BUT in Halo 5 even if we use different starting weapon the game still very vanilla: Same maps/weapons, same abilities, same gametypes, the change is not too drastic.

 

- It's a new game. We need to try vanilla settings before discarding the AR:

 Counterargument: We played the beta, we have seen how boring is watching AR fights in the gamescom tournament. From all past Halos we can deduce a few proven hard rules about competitive settings: No Radar, Precision Only Weapon Starts.

 

 

Proposed Solution:

 

Start only with the Pistol or Pistol/BR

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 BR + Pistol doesn't count as pistol being a utility counter-product where the BR is superior in this current build where the H1 pistol is clearly superior to most weapons alike the BR + Pistol consideration. That is what I take into consideration when creating the division of options, you can't consider a BR + Pistol vote as a vote for pistols as a primary utility where the BR is more effective at this point. That is exactly why there are votes for BR starts and Pistol starts where your logic goes against that simply because of an attributing irrelevance.    

1 what aspect of the br is superior in terms of being a utility weapon compared to the pistol? the only thing it has going for it over the pistol is less STK.

 

2 you can't seriously argue that on the basis that it's easier to use, you know that right?

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This is why the Pistol needs a buff to its Optimal TTK, whether it be in the form of a RoF or damage output. At its current ~1.2s Opt TTK, which is about even with the BR's OptTTK, this pistol will be outgunned in almost all situations due to its difficulty of use (which can be measured as Average TTK). When two weapons have the same Opt TTK, the weapon with the lower Average TTK is the superior weapon in a fight.

What if the average time to kill of the pistol at the pro level was less than the average time to kill of the BR at a pro level?

 

Like what if at first everyone wants to grab rifles because they're easy to use, but a year into Halo 5 some pro players became so good with the pistol they can consistently outshoot players with BRs or DMRs due to the better optimal time to kill? That player would be an incredible benefit to a team since they don't need to grab a rifle to compete, and they are just as powerful off spawn as a player who had to run off to grab a BR.

 

I think it would be a good way to really reward players who don't need the extra aim assistance as often.

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What if the average time to kill of the pistol at the pro level was less than the average time to kill of the BR at a pro level?

 

Like what if at first everyone wants to grab rifles because they're easy to use, but a year into Halo 5 some pro players became so good with the pistol they can consistently outshoot players with BRs or DMRs due to the better optimal time to kill? That player would be an incredible benefit to a team since they don't need to grab a rifle to compete, and they are just as powerful off spawn as a player who had to run off to grab a BR.

 

I think it would be a good way to really reward players who don't need the extra aim assistance as often.

But that just rewards the people who can't use the pistol. They'll still have a chance against someone even if they are going against the best pistol user in the game. If everyone had to use the pistol the best people would have a much bigger advantage since worse people can't pick up a rifle to get an easier weapon.

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