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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

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  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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I think someone else noticed this before, but the elephant is already in the room.

Deez voted for (unchanged) AR/pistol starts, in a public poll no less. I see two ways of intepreting this.

 

1. The game is already relatively close to release, and 343 are happy with the weapon balancing, so he was confident enough to vote in the poll providing us with a sneak peek of which settings we are going to get at release.

 

2. He likes the way AR/pistols play personally ( and vote on this behalf) but the pistol will be changed to a 4 sk because of community feedback, even though the only confirmed post Gamescom build changes have been a nerf to the shotgun, and the fact that the pistol has actually been nerfed killtime wise since the beta. ( see Halo 5 killtimes thread -props to @@cookies4you )

 

Small wonder I find option one much more convincing.

 

Considering this for options at release,

 

we have

 

14 votes for AR/pistol

6  votes for pistol only

 

94 votes for BR/pistol

85 votes for BR only

5 votes for BR/AR

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I think someone else noticed this before, but the elephant is already in the room.

Deez voted for (unchanged) AR/pistol starts, in a public poll no less. I see two ways of intepreting this.

 

1. The game is already relatively close to release, and 343 are happy with the weapon balancing, so he was confident enough to vote in the poll providing us with a sneak peek of which settings we are going to get at release.

 

2. He likes the way AR/pistols play personally ( and vote on this behalf) but the pistol will be changed to a 4 sk because of community feedback, even though the only confirmed post Gamescom build changes have been a nerf to the shotgun, and the fact that the pistol has actually been nerfed killtime wise since the beta. ( see Halo 5 killtimes thread -props to @@cookies4you )

 

Small wonder I find option one much more convincing.

 

Considering this for options at release,

 

we have

 

14 votes for AR/pistol

6  votes for pistol only

 

94 votes for BR/pistol

85 votes for BR only

5 votes for BR/AR

I feel like it's unfair to just completely disregard every AR/Pistol 4SK vote because it might not be a possible scenario at launch. Logically we'd do a poll without the 4SK pistol option and take results from there, not remove it and not account for the 150+ votes its had so far. 

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I feel like it's unfair to just completely disregard every AR/Pistol 4SK vote because it might not be a possible scenario at launch. Logically we'd do a poll without the 4SK pistol option and take results from there, not remove it and not account for the 150+ votes its had so far. 

 

Fair point, but with the way how the vast majority of the votes went to something people always knew wasn't guaranteed and the way most people on this forum expressed their dislikes at the fact that the Gamescom build was very automatic weapon heavy I dont see vanilla pistol starts gaining that much more support.

 

Since Simms was foreseighted enough to give people the option to delete their vote, people should probably just revote.

 

Edit: That said, it might be people have been voting for what they believe to be optimal settings not realistic ones, so (non 4sk) pistol starts might still have a decent amount of support.

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I think someone else noticed this before, but the elephant is already in the room.

Deez voted for (unchanged) AR/pistol starts, in a public poll no less. I see two ways of intepreting this.

 

1. The game is already relatively close to release, and 343 are happy with the weapon balancing, so he was confident enough to vote in the poll providing us with a sneak peek of which settings we are going to get at release.

 

This is how I interpreted it when I saw first saw it.

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Fair point, but with the way how the vast majority of the votes went to something people always knew wasn't guaranteed and the way most people on this forum expressed their dislikes at the fact that the Gamescom build was very automatic weapon heavy I dont see vanilla pistol starts gaining that much more support.

 

Since Simms was foreseighted enough to give people the option to delete their vote, people should probably just revote.

 

Edit: That said, it might be people have been voting for what they believe to be optimal settings not realistic ones, so (non 4sk) pistol starts might still have a decent amount of support.

I can't help but to think a part of you is just butthurt that not everybody is on board the BR-train  :grunt:  :kappa:

Though I really get your point , but I still think that this is the right time to let 343 knew what we really want, they still have some time to tweak stuff if the game is out, it will most likely take ages until they finish testing new balancing.

Making HCS BR starts without changing stuff about the other parts of the sandbox would be my "back up-plan" if one or two HCS events suck since that probably is not that much of an effort.

 

(and I know 343 has some sort of on the fly weapon patching system but I have my doubts that that will actually fasten the time they need to test all that)

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I think someone else noticed this before, but the elephant is already in the room.

Deez voted for (unchanged) AR/pistol starts, in a public poll no less. I see two ways of intepreting this.

 

1. The game is already relatively close to release, and 343 are happy with the weapon balancing, so he was confident enough to vote in the poll providing us with a sneak peek of which settings we are going to get at release.

 

2. He likes the way AR/pistols play personally ( and vote on this behalf) but the pistol will be changed to a 4 sk because of community feedback, even though the only confirmed post Gamescom build changes have been a nerf to the shotgun, and the fact that the pistol has actually been nerfed killtime wise since the beta. ( see Halo 5 killtimes thread -props to @@cookies4you )

 

Small wonder I find option one much more convincing.

 

Considering this for options at release,

 

we have

 

14 votes for AR/pistol

6  votes for pistol only

 

94 votes for BR/pistol

85 votes for BR only

5 votes for BR/AR

This, but we don't know where all those 4sk pistol votes would go. Assuming they all went to Pistol starts BR starts would still have more votes so BR starts have won this and that is the public opinion of the competitive community. Lets go, thank god. The majority of the pro's want BR starts as well.

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I still don't understand why people would prefer a BR start over the pistol. the pistol is the stronger, more difficult weapon even before being buffed to a 4sk. The pistols decreased range and higher difficulty will also allow more aggressive play. BR starts will probably just lead to slow gameplay and standoffs... Again.

Is it stronger? From what ive seen they have similiar TTKs with BR being easier to use(which means it will have a lower average TTK).

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This, but we don't know where all those 4sk pistol votes would go. Assuming they all went to Pistol starts BR starts would still have more votes so BR starts have won this and that is the public opinion of the competitive community. Lets go, thank god. The majority of the pro's want BR starts as well.

Could you explain your math?

 

some sort of "AR/Pistol"

AR/Pistol +14

AR/Pistol (AR Nerf) +10

AR/Pistol (pistol buff) +158

Pistol + 6

-> 188

 

vs.

 

No AR + BR

BR +85

BR/Pistol +95

-> 180

 

(I wouldn't know where to put AR/BR though...sure they want BR but AR as well which would upset a lot of "BR Pistol/only"voters I'd guess)

 

Even if you'd simply transfare those numbers, the result would still be extremly splt...

In the end 343 calls the shots and one can only hope that they at least buff the pistol a little, we will not see BR starts within the first weeks, maybe they will start experimenting at some point but they seem pretty dead set on AR+Pistol and I don't see that changing soon...

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We've seen ten matches or so of Halo 5 with the new balance. 343 pro team, and 343 in general, have played hundreds if not thousands of matches with the new balance changes and with every weapon in the sandbox.

 

Maybe the pistol needs a buff, maybe not. But to claim we know more than they do at the moment is a bit arrogant I think. I can guarantee that they have tried a four shot pistol and weren't happy with the results, so unless the game comes out and there's an overwhelming outcry that it needs a buff I doubt we'll get one.

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We've seen ten matches or so of Halo 5 with the new balance. 343 pro team, and 343 in general, have played hundreds if not thousands of matches with the new balance changes and with every weapon in the sandbox.

 

Maybe the pistol needs a buff, maybe not. But to claim we know more than they do at the moment is a bit arrogant I think. I can guarantee that they have tried a four shot pistol and weren't happy with the results, so unless the game comes out and there's an overwhelming outcry that it needs a buff I doubt we'll get one.

The thing is, they have their own direction for the game, not necessarily what's "best" for it. Look at sprint, look at what Josh Holmes said about power-up animations, look at the shotgun, look at the rifles in the game. No matter how good/bad something is they are doing what they want to with Halo and that's how it's gonna be.

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Could you explain your math?

 

some sort of "AR/Pistol"

AR/Pistol +14

AR/Pistol (AR Nerf) +10

AR/Pistol (pistol buff) +158

Pistol + 6

-> 188

 

vs.

 

No AR + BR

BR +85

BR/Pistol +95

-> 180

 

(I wouldn't know where to put AR/BR though...sure they want BR but AR as well which would upset a lot of "BR Pistol/only"voters I'd guess)

 

Even if you'd simply transfare those numbers, the result would still be extremly splt...

In the end 343 calls the shots and one can only hope that they at least buff the pistol a little, we will not see BR starts within the first weeks, maybe they will start experimenting at some point but they seem pretty dead set on AR+Pistol and I don't see that changing soon...

BR+AR goes to BR. Besides there is 0% chance that all those people voting for Pistol 4sk will go to AR+Pistol loadouts or Pistol only loadouts. We will at least see some go to BR.

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We've seen ten matches or so of Halo 5 with the new balance. 343 pro team, and 343 in general, have played hundreds if not thousands of matches with the new balance changes and with every weapon in the sandbox.

 

Maybe the pistol needs a buff, maybe not. But to claim we know more than they do at the moment is a bit arrogant I think. I can guarantee that they have tried a four shot pistol and weren't happy with the results, so unless the game comes out and there's an overwhelming outcry that it needs a buff I doubt we'll get one.

Yes, this makes perfect sense, but you have to factor in the fact that regardless of that testing the Pro team isn't in charge they are just there for publicity and testing. They can give their opinion, but they have no final say whatsoever otherwise this would be a different game.

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BR+AR goes to BR. Besides there is 0% chance that all those people voting for Pistol 4sk will go to AR+Pistol loadouts or Pistol only loadouts. We will at least see some go to BR.

there is a high chance that most of them would rather choose either of these options over anything with the br, unless your going to pretend that the so called "ce fanboys" all of sudden don't exist.

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Yes, this makes perfect sense, but you have to factor in the fact that regardless of that testing the Pro team isn't in charge they are just there for publicity and testing. They can give their opinion, but they have no final say whatsoever otherwise this would be a different game.

 

Hm? I'm pretty sure that 343 listens to their Pro team, and they aren't simply a publicity stunt.

 

If I was paying money to glorified game testers, I'd sure as hell make sure that I'm listening to them.

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The thing is, they have their own direction for the game, not necessarily what's "best" for it. Look at sprint, look at what Josh Holmes said about power-up animations, look at the shotgun, look at the rifles in the game. No matter how good/bad something is they are doing what they want to with Halo and that's how it's gonna be.

Sprint sucks, but a lot of casual players like it. You could argue power-up animations are needed with all the new movement options, it would be annoying having someone sprint or thrust in, grab overshield, and get out unscathed due to using thrust again, at least you have a bigger chance to kill with the animation now. The shotgun was already nerfed. I'm not too sure your issue with the rifles, do you mean that there's too many and they all do basically the same thing? If so, it's frustrating I agree but I don't know if it'll be as bad as everyone is making it out to be, but we'll have to see.

 

Some of the new features might be pressured from higher ups, but I doubt the higher ups care/understand enough to ask for a longer killtime to a weapon, and the developers just want to make the best game possible within the constraints of what they're allowed. If a four shot pistol makes the game better, I can't think of a situation where they would omit that on purpose.

 

 

Yes, this makes perfect sense, but you have to factor in the fact that regardless of that testing the Pro team isn't in charge they are just there for publicity and testing. They can give their opinion, but they have no final say whatsoever otherwise this would be a different game.

 

Design isn't just based around what the designer thinks is right, especially in AAA development. I agree the pro team was brought in for testing, and that they have no final say. But if all the pros say the game plays better with four shot pistols, and all the market research from private play tests (outside of events where they bring in outsiders) say that four shot pistol would be better, and all the feedback from forums say the four shot pistol is better, I doubt they would choose a five shot pistol based on their theories that it's right.

 

Obviously I could be wrong. Perhaps pro team and forum feedback say four shot pistol but the market research says five shot, and therefore they're going five shot pistol at launch, it just seems strange to me that a detail as miniscule as a single pistol shot would make a large difference to market research participants, so I feel that the feedback for a five shot pistol must be coming from elsewhere, and pro team is the only group that I can think of that may be advocating for it that may be influential enough to push five shot pistols into launch.

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there is a high chance that most of them would rather choose either of these options over anything with the br, unless your going to pretend that the so called "ce fanboys" all of sudden don't exist.

1. I disagree strongly

2. I don't care BR would still win in votes if you compare all the BR votes vs all the Pistol votes. 

3. CE fanboys? I'm sure there are more of them around than H2, H3, Halo Reach, H4 kids here.

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Sprint sucks, but a lot of casual players like it. You could argue power-up animations are needed with all the new movement options, it would be annoying having someone sprint or thrust in, grab overshield, and get out unscathed due to using thrust again, at least you have a bigger chance to kill with the animation now. The shotgun was already nerfed. I'm not too sure your issue with the rifles, do you mean that there's too many and they all do basically the same thing? If so, it's frustrating I agree but I don't know if it'll be as bad as everyone is making it out to be, but we'll have to see.

 

Some of the new features might be pressured from higher ups, but I doubt the higher ups care/understand enough to ask for a longer killtime to a weapon, and the developers just want to make the best game possible within the constraints of what they're allowed. If a four shot pistol makes the game better, I can't think of a situation where they would omit that on purpose.

 

 

 

Design isn't just based around what the designer thinks is right, especially in AAA development. I agree the pro team was brought in for testing, and that they have no final say. But if all the pros say the game plays better with four shot pistols, and all the market research from private play tests (outside of events where they bring in outsiders) say that four shot pistol would be better, and all the feedback from forums say the four shot pistol is better, I doubt they would choose a five shot pistol based on their theories that it's right.

 

Obviously I could be wrong. Perhaps pro team and forum feedback say four shot pistol but the market research says five shot, and therefore they're going five shot pistol at launch, it just seems strange to me that a detail as miniscule as a single pistol shot would make a large difference to market research participants, so I feel that the feedback for a five shot pistol must be coming from elsewhere, and pro team is the only group that I can think of that may be advocating for it that may be influential enough to push five shot pistols into launch.

Forums wanted no sprint. Pro team wanted no sprint. We got Sprint, Thruster, Clamber, Groundpound, Slide, Stabilizers, a Vidoc called "The Sprint" and a wikipedia link to Selective Bias in Polls. We got raped.

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1. I disagree strongly

2. I don't care BR would still win in votes if you compare all the BR votes vs all the Pistol votes. 

3. CE fanboys? I'm sure there are more of them around than H2, H3, Halo Reach, H4 kids here.

1 thats nice, care to say why or back that up with hard evidence?

2 only if you discount the votes for the 4sk pistol, therefore making your point flawed on a basic level

3 my point exactly. implying they would be more likely to choose the br, especially when it's a worse utility weapon, over the pistol is nonsense.

 

your pro br posts are rooted in nostalgia. fact is the pistol even now is still a better option than the br. have a new poll with only the current available options and no 4sk pistol and it changes nothing. pro opinions are largely irrelevant as well because these are the same pros that said halo 4 was good before the game launched.

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Forums wanted no sprint. Pro team wanted no sprint. We got Sprint, Thruster, Clamber, Groundpound, Slide, Stabilizers, a Vidoc called "The Sprint" and a wikipedia link to Selective Bias in Polls. We got raped.

I thought pro team's opinions on sprint in Halo 5 was never talked about? Also I'm not sure what The Sprint has to do with anything, I thought it was pretty cool.

 

Again, positive feedback must come from somewhere, even if it's something we disagree with. 343 isn't choosing a five shot pistol to spite us, but it's because with all the information they currently have, that's the most logical choice. Once the game comes out and they have thousands of people abusing it, that may change. But as of now, there's no reason for change.

 

I think damage values goes beyond adding "new features" like spartan abilities, damage values are 100% about balance, where you could add a new gameplay mechanic just to spice things up a bit. Which is why I wouldn't doubt if they are listening to people who have had extensive playtesting (i.e a group like 343 pro team) compared to a bunch of forum users right now.

 

Finally, I just want to reiterate. The game may come out, and we may all agree that the pistol should be buffed and that may be the eventual outcome. I just don't think we have enough information to have that judgement at the moment.

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1 thats nice, care to say why or back that up with hard evidence?

2 only if you discount the votes for the 4sk pistol, therefore making your point flawed on a basic level

3 my point exactly. implying they would be more likely to choose the br, especially when it's a worse utility weapon, over the pistol is nonsense.

 

your pro br posts are rooted in nostalgia. fact is the pistol even now is still a better option than the br. have a new poll with only the current available options and no 4sk pistol and it changes nothing. pro opinions are largely irrelevant as well because these are the same pros that said halo 4 was good before the game launched.

What are you ********? Count the votes,

AR/Pistol + Pistol only votes = 189

All BR loadouts = 195

 

And this is including 4sk pistol votes that went completely into those 189 votes. If we aren't getting 4sk then the BR votes can only increase when those votes go elsewhere whereas your 189 votes can only decrease. 

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What are you ********? Count the votes,

AR/Pistol + Pistol only votes = 189

All BR loadouts = 195

 

And this is including 4sk pistol votes that went completely into those 189 votes. If we aren't getting 4sk then the BR votes can only increase when those votes go elsewhere whereas your 189 votes can only decrease. 

that's where you fucked up, br/ pistol should count for both not just the pro br side. that kind of logic is a farce.

 

it's actually 282 vs 195 in a direct comparison of options with the br vs options with the pistol.

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that's where you fucked up, br/ pistol should count for both not just the pro br side. that kind of logic is a farce.

 

it's actually 282 vs 195 in a direct comparison of options with the br vs options with the pistol.

Nope, all the people who voted BR+Pistol want the BR but would settle for a pistol with it. 

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I thought pro team's opinions on sprint in Halo 5 was never talked about? Also I'm not sure what The Sprint has to do with anything, I thought it was pretty cool.

 

Again, positive feedback must come from somewhere, even if it's something we disagree with. 343 isn't choosing a five shot pistol to spite us, but it's because with all the information they currently have, that's the most logical choice. Once the game comes out and they have thousands of people abusing it, that may change. But as of now, there's no reason for change.

 

I think damage values goes beyond adding "new features" like spartan abilities, damage values are 100% about balance, where you could add a new gameplay mechanic just to spice things up a bit. Which is why I wouldn't doubt if they are listening to people who have had extensive playtesting (i.e a group like 343 pro team) compared to a bunch of forum users right now.

 

Finally, I just want to reiterate. The game may come out, and we may all agree that the pistol should be buffed and that may be the eventual outcome. I just don't think we have enough information to have that judgement at the moment.

Why the fuck would they name it the Sprint, they are trolls.

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