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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

850 members have voted

  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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First sentence in that last paragraph pretty much shows what it's bad. Dying should never put you at a disadvantage weapon wise. Ever.

But it wasn't really a disadvantage, AR could melt up to mid range in the beta before they (rightfully) nerfed it.

 

And now the pistol has a faster TTK than the BR. So dying isn't really putting you at a disadvantage.

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I rewatched game 3 of Optic vs Supremacy to count how many kills were gotten with the AR/Pistol.

 

30 Pistol kills, 8 AR kills. The Pistol doesn't need a buff and the AR doesn't need to be nerfed IMO.

And how many SMG kills?

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But it wasn't really a disadvantage, AR could melt up to mid range in the beta before they (rightfully) nerfed it.

 

And now the pistol has a faster TTK than the BR. So dying isn't really putting you at a disadvantage.

Its only faster under perfect conditions. In actual gameplay the BR will have a lower average kill time.

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Its only faster under perfect conditions. In actual gameplay the BR will have a lower average kill time.

But it's so much easier to use. We don't need another halo where the utility weapon aims itself for you.

 

The pistol is definitely not perfect as it is now, it needs a larger clip or to be buffed to a 4sk. But it looks to be a very skillful weapon, where as the BR is very easy to use. Seriously, you can twitch in the direction of a 1 shot to clean them up. You can't do that with a low aim assist single shot weapon.

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But it's so much easier to use. We don't need another halo where the utility weapon aims itself for you.

 

The pistol is definitely not perfect as it is now, it needs a larger clip or to be buffed to a 4sk. But it looks to be a very skillful weapon, where as the BR is very easy to use. Seriously, you can twitch in the direction of a 1 shot to clean them up. You can't do that with a low aim assist single shot weapon.

I don't want BR starts I want pistol starts with no other rifles on the map. Otherwise they would have to increase the ttk of all the rifles so that the only reason anyone would pick them up is ease of use

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I don't want BR starts I want pistol starts with no other rifles on the map. Otherwise they would have to increase the ttk of all the rifles so that the only reason anyone would pick them up is ease of use

So what you're saying is...

 

no one ever used the BR or DMR? Ever?

 

Fuck, that would be awful.

 

I dont see why we can't have something like this:

 

Option A: Pistol/Ar starts. Pistol is 4sk, reduced range, AR nerfed range. BR/DMR increased TTK (on par with pistol but excellent at long ranges). 

 

Option B: Pistol/BR starts. Pistol is 4sk, weapon of choice for short-med range CQC combat, reduced range. BR excellent at long ranges but less lethal/longer TTK than pistol. 

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So what you're saying is...

 

no one ever used the BR or DMR? Ever?

 

Fuck, that would be awful.

 

I dont see why we can't have something like this:

 

Option A: Pistol/Ar starts. Pistol is 4sk, reduced range, AR nerfed range. BR/DMR increased TTK (on par with pistol but excellent at long ranges).

 

Option B: Pistol/BR starts. Pistol is 4sk, weapon of choice for short-med range CQC combat, reduced range. BR excellent at long ranges but less lethal/longer TTK than pistol.

I would rather have option B. I want one gun that can definitively win if you use it right (pistol). The BR wouldn't necessarily be viable so I would be okay with that. Only out of those 2 options of course.

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Obviously we need more testing or at least hear from the people who played the game at the invitational because they would be the last people to play the latest patch of settings for Halo 5. Somebody tweet and Optic, see what they think and somebody reach out to the EU teams and see what they think, at this point we are just looking for opinions because like I said we ourselves have not gotten a chance to actually get this new version since beta in our hands so we are all overly speculating a lot of variables.

 

We still have to see how the meta would be with Pistol/AR vs BR start, etc. That's like back in H4 when for some reason the settings were you could have a DMR or BR start, the meta developed and we noticed that having a DMR start made no sense because it broke lines of sight for all the maps and made it very ccampy by being able to stay very far back and just surpress pushes.

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Obviously we need more testing or at least hear from the people who played the game at the invitational because they would be the last people to play the latest patch of settings for Halo 5. Somebody tweet and Optic, see what they think and somebody reach out to the EU teams and see what they think, at this point we are just looking for opinions because like I said we ourselves have not gotten a chance to actually get this new version since beta in our hands so we are all overly speculating a lot of variables.

 

We still have to see how the meta would be with Pistol/AR vs BR start, etc. That's like back in H4 when for some reason the settings were you could have a DMR or BR start, the meta developed and we noticed that having a DMR start made no sense because it broke lines of sight for all the maps and made it very ccampy by being able to stay very far back and just surpress pushes.

Having more than one rifle is a terrible idea anyways so I don't see how we are gonna fix this game.

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I would rather have option B. I want one gun that can definitively win if you use it right (pistol). The BR wouldn't necessarily be viable so I would be okay with that. Only out of those 2 options of course.

I just want the BR to have a place on maps with longer/larger spaces and greater sightlines. I'd love the pistol battles in CQC where skill >>>>>> and the BR has a utility place in the meta. 

 

The DMR and LR would have a place as sort of power weapons (in the same vein as a shotgun) in the sense that they'd be more scarce but insanely accurate/deadly (more deadly than the BR) at longer ranges.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

The community is so split on this lol

We need to find some agreeable common ground and push for it. 

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I just want the BR to have a place on maps with longer/larger spaces and greater sightlines. I'd love the pistol battles in CQC where skill >>>>>> and the BR has a utility place in the meta.

 

The DMR and LR would have a place as sort of power weapons (in the same vein as a shotgun) in the sense that they'd be more scarce but insanely accurate/deadly (more deadly than the BR) at longer ranges.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

The community is so split on this lol

We need to find some agreeable common ground and push for it.

We can thank All the previous Halos for screwing us up and dividing us. The only option I thought that was a compromise what the BR but with the same fire rate/stats as the pistol. But that won't happen so we will continue to be divided. So many damn rifles!

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The pistol really should be a 4sk either that or increase the magazine size to 15 bullets, only 2 kills per mag is just lame for a utility weapon.

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Having pistol/Ar starts isn't ideal for casual play either I hope you guys know that. The casuals aren't gonna be more likely to play competitive because they have an AR. Not only that they don't want the pistol to be a streaming weapon either because it pretty much nullifies the AR. Go on waypoint and suggest BR/AR starts for any other game and look at what they say. Both communities are getting screwed with these settings.

 

The people who play social play it strictly for fun (a good chunk at least). Thy maybe play a couple hours a week or so to just chill and play video games. It's not about getting good at the game. They will NEVER play competitive because they don't take the game seriously. They want FUN. somehow we think settings will make people play competitive now or watch competitive because they have the same game. I don't know where this came from or how you can prove it but it's a very slippery slope. Why can't we just have a fun version of Halo where people who want variety can play and enjoy themselves, and a competitive version for people who like that.

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But it's so much easier to use. We don't need another halo where the utility weapon aims itself for you.

 

The pistol is definitely not perfect as it is now, it needs a larger clip or to be buffed to a 4sk. But it looks to be a very skillful weapon, where as the BR is very easy to use. Seriously, you can twitch in the direction of a 1 shot to clean them up. You can't do that with a low aim assist single shot weapon.

Ya that's cool and all but the game isn't played with pistol only. There are things like the SMG that are easy to use that melt pistol users. I would rather see people using an easier to use BR than what I saw at gamescon.

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The Invitational gameplay looked like some high level Team Slayer streaming instead of MLG/HCS gameplay.

Not even

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so you would watch that type of gameplay for the next 3 years?

I wouldn't watch it for the next 3 minutes lol.

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I wouldn't watch it for the next 3 minutes lol.

That right there shows the lack of competitive gameplay. Even casual fans wouldn't watch this crap. No one is winning!

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I understand the value of having competitive settings be close to the vanilla settings, but I promise that the existence of BR starts is truly not jarring to casual Halo players lol. The fact that we're keeping the abilities and having the same weapon layouts on the maps is huge already.

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Option B: Pistol/BR starts. Pistol is 4sk, weapon of choice for short-med range CQC combat, reduced range. BR excellent at long ranges but less lethal/longer TTK than pistol.

I've suggested this a few times but it never got any attention, I feel like this would keep the most people in the competitive community happy, Pistol would still play the same as we want it to and be the go to utility because of its kill time and the people who want to spawn with a BR get to do so, it's a bit harsh to people who want a BR (which is a substantial number in our community whether you agree with it or not) that there's no playlists in Arena which you can spawn with it in and it's all just AR/Pistol.

 

The BR has its flaws but I'd take that any day over spawning with the AR in the competitive playlist, and who's going to want to buy BR skins when you can't even spawn with it in Arena, arguably the playlist where it's most popular? Would be a shame to see REQ packs not pull in as much money for tournaments as it could because of something like this, the BR is one of the better looking rifles in the game and I'd buy skins for Pistol and BR but since I can't spawn with the BR outside of Warzone there would be no point.

 

I understand the whole unity across all Arena playlists thing but I don't think spawning with a BR in competitive play will throw players/spectators off that much and if it did odds are those people wouldn't like competitive play anyway even if it was AR/Pistol.

 

Just a note but currently I'm voting for AR/4sk Pistol but I'd vote for BR/4sk Pistol if that was an option, ultimately 343 will decide and whatever they choose we'll have to wait and see how it plays when the game is out.

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Brought in from the H5 thread:

 

 

My only real concerns with H5 at this point in time are the weapon placements on the maps, and the damned Magnum. Weapon placement is horrendouss, and too many weapons (especially automatics) seem to be scattered around the map. If AR's are gonna be a starting weapon, there should be ZERO of them placed on the map. With the SMG and PlasmaRifle being essentially Tier 2 power weapons, there should be no more than TWO combined on the map.

 

Now on the the main issue... The Magnum. Hands down the hardest weapon to aim, thus the most skillful. Here's the problem, its Optimal Time To Kill (Opt TTK) is roughly equal to that of all other "utility" class weapons (BR, DMR, Carbine, AR), yet it's much harder to use, which leaves it with a significantly longer Average Time To KIll (Avg TTK). This means the payout (reward) for the risk of sticking to the Magnum is not balanced!

 

Simply put, the Magnum needs an Opt TTK to be X seconds quicker than other utility rifles if its Avg TTK is X seconds longer. This can be accomplished by dropping the Magnum to a 4SK with its current rate of fire, or buffing the rate of fire considerably. This brings the risk versus the reward back in check. Average skilled players will still swap out for other rifles, while superior skilled players will stick with the Magnum and still smoke them. Perfectly fair.

 

And regarding the role of the AR in competitive settings:

 

 

The AR accomplishes the same thing as a H2 Noob Combo, it's an intentional asymmetry in the sandbox (ease of use and power) to allow new comers some means of competing. Should it have a place in the top tier, no. But, if the Magnum is appropriately balanced (4SK @ ~1.0s flat), then it's essentially obsolute in all but the most niche of situations at the top level.

Of course, this is intended to encourage players to hold on to their Magnum and swap out the AR for other weapons at the high level. If another player bum rushes you with an AR and you've swapped your Magnum for a BR which has the same Opt TTK, you fucked yourself and that's your own damn fault.

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