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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

850 members have voted

  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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What's the point of the BR when you have the Pistol?

The points that come to mind are how effective the pistol will be in countering the sniper at long ranges, clip size, and time to kill.

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The most fascinating thing about all of this IMO is that it basically proves that the vast majority of competitive Halo players don't give a shit about the actual mechanics of the game.

A sad truth I've come to realize many times on this site- not just average users either, pro players too! All the love these people give to things like Halo 3 and the BR in general attest to that.

 

Being a competitive halo player used to be about playing the game/using settings that maximized the skill gap- now it doesn't mean anything to be a competitive halo player.

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I keep coming back to this myself. It seems that the pistol is pretty much our ideal starting weapon if we can get past the fact that it doesn't look like a Famas and kills in 5 shots instead of 4 (though that last one I'm a little salty about still).

 

The most fascinating thing about all of this IMO is that it basically proves that the vast majority of competitive Halo players don't give a shit about the actual mechanics of the game. So many people hated (Post-TU)Reach because the DMR's range made the gameplay so much slower and more punishing, but in H2A no one seems to mind at all. Then in H4 we went with BR starts despite the fact that the numbers seemed to show that the BR was possibly the least skillful (I will say that the patch retroactively made BR starts a decent option, but we were using it already).

 

Now we have this pistol that addresses all the issues people had with the DMR:

  • it doesn't have the ease-of-use at range to shut down map movement
  • it is perfectly accurate at range so that if you are able to hit those shots, you are rewarded for it consistently
  • no 3x scope
  • it has a faster kill time than the BR (and a slower avg. kill time based on what top-level play we've seen, but that didn't matter in H4 so I'm not giving it it's own bullet)

Yet somehow, despite all that, we've found a way to still come together as a community and decide that we want BR starts because.... well .. because reasons.

 

It's sort of depressing actually. We finally get a near-perfect utility weapon, but the biggest argument against it is that BR is easier to use, and has a smaller gap between perfect and avg. kill times.

 

1) People don't like the idea of losing to autos EVEN if they missed shots with their utility, so they want the utility weapon that is easier.

2) People think that DMR/BR control will decide matches... which is pretty dumb. Just look at H4 AGL, pre-patch, where BR was the weakest weapon - did DMR control decide matches? Absolutely not. 

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2) People think that DMR/BR control will decide matches... which is pretty dumb. Just look at H4 AGL, pre-patch, where BR was the weakest weapon - did DMR control decide matches? Absolutely not. 

 

Remnant of H2 mentality where BR control dominated in non-BR starts.  But as I've stressed repeatedly, this was due to awful placement of the BRs and the MUCH wider gap between BR power and SMG/Pistol power.

 

Pistol in H5 is good.  REALLY good.  Not the same case anymore.

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It's sort of depressing actually. We finally get a near-perfect utility weapon, but the biggest argument against it is that BR is easier to use, and has a smaller gap between perfect and avg. kill times.

 

1) People don't like the idea of losing to autos EVEN if they missed shots with their utility, so they want the utility weapon that is easier.

2) People think that DMR/BR control will decide matches... which is pretty dumb. Just look at H4 AGL, pre-patch, where BR was the weakest weapon - did DMR control decide matches? Absolutely not. 

 

 

The criticism is that a difficult-to-use utility is a great idea UNLESS the rest of the weapons in the "sandbox" are incredibly easy to use in comparison.

 

As far as I can tell, that is the case right now.

 

The solution is to buff the pistol (4 shot kill, bigger clip, faster kill time, longer range OR easier to aim) or remove all of the other weapons that pollute the game (AR, SMG, DMR, BR).

 

The current utility weapon does not work in the context of all of the other shitty weapons currently scattered everywhere on the map -- it will easily be the biggest issue with the game outside of sprint/thrust and shitty maps.

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The criticism is that a difficult-to-use utility is a great idea UNLESS the rest of the weapons in the "sandbox" are incredibly easy to use in comparison.

 

As far as I can tell, that is the case right now.

 

The solution is to buff the pistol (4 shot kill, bigger clip, faster kill time, longer range OR easier to aim) or remove all of the other weapons that pollute the game (AR, SMG, DMR, BR).

 

The current utility weapon does not work in the context of all of the other shitty weapons currently scattered everywhere on the map -- it will easily be the biggest issue with the game outside of sprint/thrust and shitty maps.

Precisely.

 

While it is important to have a significant gap between the minimum and average kill timers (in order to empower interesting, aggressive play), it is also important to have a relatively low average kill time--I'd say about 1.2-1.5 seconds in Halo 5's case because of how much easier it is to escape; even if escaping does not guarantee survival due to the shield recharge delay, which has negative effects of its own, it still slows down the game and increases the already heavy reliance on teamshooting.  Additionally, a lower average kill time decreases the likelihood of powerful random weapons like the SMG and AR from contributing to unpredictable outcomes.  Furthermore, a lower average kill time pushes the saturation point of power weapons a little further, which is necessary if people want faster weapon spawns.

 

It's probably too late to save Halo 5, but for future Halo games I think it would be better to push for DMR starts (or some single shot rifle) in order to have a shot at a minimum kill time under one second.  Burst fire is terrible, and it seems 343 and most of the community think that a pistol should not kill so fast.  As long as we get some weapon like that, it does not necessarily matter if any of the other "loadout" precision weapons (or most automatics) see any use, from a pragmatic perspective.  Those other weapons add nothing to the game, as they're simply rehashed versions of the same basic hitscan weapon with more bullet magnetism and slightly different kill times.

 

 

TL;DR: The Magnum needs a faster minimum kill time (0.9) AND a faster average kill time (~1.2-1.5) in order to avoid saturation from both power weapons and the new ease-of-use class of weapons (BR, DMR, AR, SMG, etc.), as well as to counteract the defensive movement abilities.

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If there's a 4Shot Pistol what's the point of the BR? BR's only got the vote. If they're trying to bring back the competitive scene, why pistols?

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If there's a 4Shot Pistol what's the point of the BR? BR's only got the vote. If they're trying to bring back the competitive scene, why pistols?

 

Well, BR and 4 shot pistol didn't get an option so I'm not sure what you're trying to infer. A BR start + the current pistol was the option that's listed. If the Pistol was a 4 shot, pistol only or AR + Pistol would honestly be the best two of the most potentially viable for the best competitive settings.

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pistol is fun but my god the br is night and day more fun to use....just have ar and br starts...i mean seriously if 343 wants less of a transition from casual to competitive the dont need to replace the br with the pistol for god sake....and yeah yeah blah blah single shot blah blah blah slightly bigger skill gap blah blah blah...i heard that crap before and thats what it is is...crap......and for the love of everything tasty fix the god damn spawns in FFA....free for all is a fucking joke at the moment...it has even worse spawns then h2a ffa and thats saying something....it feel like playing a goofy octagon\shot in the back simulator

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pistol is fun but my god the br is night and day more fun to use....just have ar and br starts...i mean seriously if 343 wants less of a transition from casual to competitive the dont need to replace the br with the pistol for god sake....and yeah yeah blah blah single shot blah blah blah slightly bigger skill gap blah blah blah...i heard that crap before and thats what it is is...crap......and for the love of everything tasty fix the god damn spawns in FFA....free for all is a fucking joke at the moment...it has even worse spawns then h2a ffa and thats saying something....it feel like playing a goofy octagon\shot in the back simulator

 

More "fun"... how? Because it is easier for you to use? Lol.

 

Blah blah your valid, legit logical reasons are crap because I said so and nostalgia says BR is better so there.

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Time to go through the thread and see who defended AR starts.

A lot of people. They all would say how "it's not that good anyway, the pistol dominates it." Lol I knew it. Wish I wasn't right though.

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br is the perfect combination of range timing and precision especially when you incorporate the ar....and i wouldnt have a problem with dmr starts with less auto aim for the most part...except its range is just to long and it would be pointless to even try getting dmr starts...they can balance the br how ever they want...not doing so is a choice and im not the one being nastolgic....br is more known and iconic than the damn pistol which was a utility weapon in one game...ce guys  creaming their pants with nastolgia

 

The H5 pistol is a shadow of the H1 variant. I don't care what weapon skin the utility weapon is, it just need to be a 4 shot low auto aim single shot medium range weapon with optimal TTK under 1 second.

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I voted for BR+Pistol, I hope for some changes to the magnetism and hope they make the BR a bit harder to use with the utility of being able to swap to the magnum quickly in a pinch. Just my opinion on what I prefer to see for Halo. 

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A lot of people. They all would say how "it's not that good anyway, the pistol dominates it." Lol I knew it. Wish I wasn't right though.

I think it's funny how the AR and the SMG managed to completely flip flop. The SMG is actually relatively balanced while the AR is overpowered.

 

Honestly though, I think the AR Starts would work much better if the weapon lost its accuracy modifiers. Something on the level of the H4 and H2A AR would be perfect, where its strength is CQC but it can be burst for better accuracy such as against the SMG, but loses against a continuously fired precision weapon when doing so. The thing's range is just too damn high right now.

 

Alternatively we could get maps that aren't completely cluttered and actually have sight-lines so that AR Campers can't sit in a corner all game long. 

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I think it's funny how the AR and the SMG managed to completely flip flop. The SMG is actually relatively balanced while the AR is overpowered.

 

Honestly though, I think the AR Starts would work much better if the weapon lost its accuracy modifiers. Something on the level of the H4 and H2A AR would be perfect, where its strength is CQC but it can be burst for better accuracy such as against the SMG, but loses against a continuously fired precision weapon when doing so. The thing's range is just too damn high right now.

 

Alternatively we could get maps that aren't completely cluttered and actually have sight-lines so that AR Campers can't sit in a corner all game long.

They really did flip flop that's kinda funny. The AR is basically what the smg was, it can be fired with minimal to no bloom. Even unscoped standing it's still highly accurate out to medium range. And yes map design is a huge factor in this as well. Combine all those factors and we get this. I really hope they do something like that and give it some sort of nerf.

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2 questions

Is it true that after the 4th shot of a pistol on the opponent, the auto aim get's even lower on the one shot opponent? I swear ninja said that, i'm leaning on not believing him, but..still wanna confirm

 

If there's a br vs pistol, and both players are putting in perfect shots, will they trade?

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2 questions

Is it true that after the 4th shot of a pistol on the opponent, the auto aim get's even lower on the one shot opponent? I swear ninja said that, i'm leaning on not believing him, but..still wanna confirm

 

If there's a br vs pistol, and both players are putting in perfect shots, will they trade?

 

If they both fired on the exact same frame I believe we confirmed the BR will win. In a normal human situation they should tie.

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2 questions

Is it true that after the 4th shot of a pistol on the opponent, the auto aim get's even lower on the one shot opponent? I swear ninja said that, i'm leaning on not believing him, but..still wanna confirm

 

If there's a br vs pistol, and both players are putting in perfect shots, will they trade?

 

 

If they both fired on the exact same frame I believe we confirmed the BR will win. In a normal human situation they should tie.

 

Can anyone confirm or deny this? I'm getting mixed answers.

 

cuz ttk for pistol is shorter than br from one person, but now br will win? confused...

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A sad truth I've come to realize many times on this site- not just average users either, pro players too! All the love these people give to things like Halo 3 and the BR in general attest to that.

 

Being a competitive halo player used to be about playing the game/using settings that maximized the skill gap- now it doesn't mean anything to be a competitive halo player.

then you should be supporting br and pistol starts....regardless of what some people think the br has a much higher skill gap than something like the ar...if its br and pistol i dont see a loadout with a bigger skill gap then that except maybe pistol only starts

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then you should be supporting br and pistol starts....regardless of what some people think the br has a much higher skill gap than something like the ar...if its br and pistol i dont see a loadout with a bigger skill gap then that except maybe pistol only starts

If I want to push for settings which maximize the skill gap, why would I advocate for a burst fire utility weapon when we have single shot alternatives?

 

Increase player damage settings via custom game options to buff the pistol to 4sk, remove the BR entirely from the sandbox, turn off all spartan abilities, increase movement and acceleration/strafing settings, and forge maps with no clamber ledges and fast power item timers.

 

If we had a playlist for these types of settings, maybe I would buy/stream this game.

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