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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

850 members have voted

  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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With a 1.0s 4SK Magnum, in the hands of a skilled enough player, it will be rare to see another player (equally skilled or otherwise) want to challenge with an AR. It's a 1.0s Opt TTK versus a 1.2s Opt TTK. The magnum has the significant advantage in high skill level brackets as players are capable of consistently netting kills close to the Opt TTK.

 

The AR is completely outclassed and marginalized. It doesn't matter for the higher end players. It's moot. It's next to useless.

That's only of the players see each other at the same time and there's no cover or anything. If I get the jump on a pro and I'm using an AR I will win with little effort.

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It's just a weird scenario. A lot of competitive fans don't want the AR and a lot of casual fans don't want a pistol. We are basically forcing people to compromise instead of just separating the two.

 

I see how ranked will work I get that the skilled people will just climb up and the AR will pretty much be a non factor. But in social where most casuals play they are screwed. Pub stompers now get a utility weapon off spawn in social (which never happened before except Halo 4 which was ALWAYS social) and they can really shred. No more having to get a rifle. If we can't keep both communities happy with the same settings then why have the same settings? This is all speculation of course I'm not saying it won't work this is just a worry I have.

 

Alright, fair point here with the Pubstompers. But they will always find a way to wreck, won't they?

 

I'm a fan of compromise. That's just me. I think its a rational compromise that both sides should learn to accept... But people aren't exactly rational.

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The maps shouldn't be. ARs should not be placed on maps, as players spawn with them. The SMG and PR, being essentially lower-tier power weapons with their ~0.8s Opt TTKs should be limitted to a max of TWO (in total combination) per map. Automatics would not be litered around the map. Nor should they be.

 

The weapons placed on the map isn't even a part of this discussion! What are you smoking man?

I see a lot of shoulds in there. Powerful autos ARE litered all over the maps.

 

The spawn weapons are not islands on to themselves. They have to be balanced in relation to the rest of the sandbox. Right now, they are not.

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That's only of the players see each other at the same time and there's no cover or anything. If I get the jump on a pro and I'm using an AR I will win with little effort.

 

If you got the jump with a 1.0s 4SK Magnum, you're just as likely to win (although it'll take slightly more effort). Why would you want to hold the AR though when it'd be more beneficial to swap it out for a longer range rifle or stronger weapon while you've got this beast of a Magnum in your back pocket?

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Alright, fair point here with the Pubstompers. But they will always find a way to wreck, won't they?

 

I'm a fan of compromise. That's just me. I think its a rational compromise that both sides should learn to accept... But people aren't exactly rational.

Especially video game players. Compromise is great but it's almost unnecessary when you can just make everybody happy. Of course 343 wants as many people watching and competing because that's $$$$$ for them. We shouldn't have to compromise just so they can make as much as possible. If I'm stuck with the compromised settings I will still play though and I'll still rank up so I'm not that worried. But the two extremes (pros and super casuals) might get a little screwed.
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There will always be a divide in Halo, the game is just to varied to have a homogenous experience, we really need to stop trying to please everyone and really focus on our needs. 

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I see a lot of shoulds in there. Powerful autos ARE litered all over the maps.

 

The spawn weapons are not islands on to themselves. They have to be balanced in relation to the rest of the sandbox. Right now, they are not.

 

And we're arguing that the Magnum needs buffed to a 4SK at its current Rate of Fire (bringing it to aprox.1.0s flat), and that autos shouldn't be litered on the maps. Objects placed on the map don't mean jack in the context of weapon balance though. Object placement is part of level design, sandbox balance  exists in a vacuum.

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If you got the jump with a 1.0s 4SK Magnum, you're just as likely to win (although it'll take slightly more effort). Why would you want to hold the AR though when it'd be more beneficial to swap it out for a longer range rifle or stronger weapon while you've got this beast of a Magnum in your back pocket?

Watch a pro player play Halo 3 with both an AR and Br and see how many times they use the AR. Trust me the AR will be used a lot. If you know a guy is turning a corner you switch to the AR spray and punch. Thy have no chance. Whether it's Roy or Jim628672 they will lose.

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There will always be a divide in Halo, the game is just to varied to have a homogenous experience, we really need to stop trying to please everyone and really focus on our needs.

Say it one more time so everybody sees it
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Watch a pro player play Halo 3 with both an AR and Br and see how many times they use the AR. Trust me the AR will be used a lot. If you know a guy is turning a corner you switch to the AR spray and punch. Thy have no chance. Whether it's Roy or Jim628672 they will lose.

 

The difference between the H3 BR and H3 AR is no where near as significant as the difference we're advocating with H5 Magnum versus AR though. The H3 BR was horrendously weak and struggled to compete against the AR at close ranges, while the AR was a beast, especially with melee lunge.

 

Halo 5 is a completely different story. The difference of ~0.2seconds Opt TTK and the lack of lunge, along with smaller melee hitboxes, serves as a massive nerf to the AR's effectiveness in this situation.

 

And again, returning to the subject of choice (or opportunity cost), why would you want to carry and AR in your back pocket when you can swap it out for a better weapon? When the Magnum is GOAT at CQC and Midrange combat, you'd want to swap that AR our for a BR or alternative weapon instead.

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And we're arguing that the Magnum needs buffed to a 4SK at its current Rate of Fire (bringing it to aprox.1.0s flat), and that autos shouldn't be litteted on the maps

I understand. But that is not the current reality. It may never happen.

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The difference between the H3 BR and H3 AR is no where near as significant as the difference we're advocating with H5 Magnum versus AR though. The H3 BR was horrendously weak and struggled to compete against the AR at close ranges, while the AR was a beast, especially with melee lunge.

 

Halo 5 is a completely different story. The difference of ~0.2seconds Opt TTK and the lack of lunge, along with smaller melee hitboxes, serves as a massive nerf to the AR's effectiveness in this situation.

 

And again, returning to the subject of choice (or opportunity cost), why would you want to carry and AR in your back pocket when you can swap it out for a better weapon? When the Magnum is GOAT at CQC and Midrange combat, you'd want to swap that AR our for a BR or alternative weapon instead.

Because the magnum isn't goat at cqc is that hard to understand? The AR will beat a magnum user at close range.

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I understand. But that is not the curtent reality. It may never happen.

 

Then we're screwed. Especially if SMGs and PlasmaRifles are litered on the maps.... They're essentially lower tier power weapons and have no business being on every map, especially in multitudes.

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If Season 1 ends up being AR + Pistol (the way it currently is), I can assure you you'll see a downfall of the community in a month and a half tops. 

 

I'm not opposed to the pistol at all. The PROBLEM we're having here, and quote me when the game comes out, is that once we move to the full H5 gametypes with all the different weapons and maps, we're not going to have a utility weapon to defend ourselves against teams who win the opening rush of the game. Especially if these maps are extremely huge as we have seen so far; it's going to be a camp fest after the meta has been discovered.

 

The pistol needs to be buffed OR we need to get rid of the AR in place of a BR. 100% not opposed in the slightest to a BR pistol start in which a pistol can win against a BR close range (4 shot).

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Because the magnum isn't goat at cqc is that hard to understand? The AR will beat a magnum user at close range.

 

I think a difference of 0.2s in favor of the Magnum should suffice to give it the advantage in CQC, I could be wrong. Maybe we'd need a larger difference between the two. If that's so, then the Magnum should have an even quicker Opt TTK (and of course decreased aim assist to balance Agt TTK).

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If Season 1 ends up being AR + Pistol (the way it currently is), I can assure you you'll see a downfall of the community in a month and a half tops.

Lol it's funny because people don't believe it.
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I think a difference of 0.2s in favor of the Magnum should suffice to give it the advantage in CQC, I could be wrong. Maybe we'd need a larger difference between the two. If that's so, then the Magnum should have an even quicker Opt TTK (and of course decreased aim assist to balance Agt TTK).

A much larger gap is needed. The only game with AR/pistol starts had a gun with a .6 perfect ttk and a very inaccurate AR. That's why it was balanced.

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Okay, I could either have this argument or I could just say this, if 343i makes the Pistol a 4sk with 12 bullets and changes or keeps the RoF as it is, I will send you a 100 usd worth of Microsoft money or points or whatever kay? Now say whatever you want, I don't care since I'm just going to keep saying, "we will see, we will see"

 

Quoting for when it happens

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A much larger gap is needed. The only game with AR/pistol starts had a gun with a .6 perfect ttk and a very inaccurate AR. That's why it was balanced.

 

It was balanced in overwhelming favor of the Magnum. The CE AR kind of sucked...

 

-edit-

 

The CE AR sucked in terms of weapon settings. It had its role in the sandbox for quick camo and what not. Wish we could have such intricate balances in H5....

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It was balanced in overwhelming favor of the Magnum. The CE AR kind of sucked...

As a gun yes but that was the point. Automatic weapons always require less skill and in turn must have high ttk's. But it was balanced because it had faster melee and QC. That's what Halo 5 is lacking. An actual spray and pray weapon that is effective is bad for competitive since it takes less skill.

 

Edit: just saw your edit lol. Exactly my point.

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As a gun yes but that was the point. Automatic weapons always require less skill and in turn must have high ttk's. But it was balanced because it had faster melee and QC. That's what Halo 5 is lacking. An actual spray and pray weapon that is effective is bad for competitive since it takes less skill.

 

Edit: just saw your edit lol. Exactly my point.

 

After I posted I realised, oh shit, he's gonna eat me alive because I didn't mention the other qualities of the CE sandbox. Haha. I was too slow with the edit. :(

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Lol it's funny because people don't believe it.

 

It's stupid. The only thing that will keep people going is the one million dollar tournament. This game isn't even fun for people anymore which is the main reason why the community was so large back in the day. We all truly loved playing the game and we loved competing. Now it's just frustrating because instead of it just be my team against another, it's my team vs another vs 343.

 

I'm really tired of this "Let's just play and see how it is" mentality 343 has started with. They did the same thing with Ricochet (thank god it got taken out before the tournament) despite the entire communities decision to not have it in the settings.

 

All that being said, I'm on board for the buffed pistol. 

 

I would prefer a BR start, but I'm not opposed to the buffed pistol either.

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I still don't understand why people would prefer a BR start over the pistol. the pistol is the stronger, more difficult weapon even before being buffed to a 4sk. The pistols decreased range and higher difficulty will also allow more aggressive play. BR starts will probably just lead to slow gameplay and standoffs... Again.

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