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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

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  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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There is zero tactical depth in having more than 1 utility rifle. I'm one of the biggest supporters of trying to make Halo more tactical and less thumb-centric, but the decision-making involved with picking up a BR/DMR is as 'tactically competitive' as deciding when & where to Sprint.

 

 

I don't intend on having 20 variations of the same gun either. But having the option to grab a niche pickup and capitalize on its strengths within its niche I believe adds to the game. The first gun I think of in H5 that does this well is the Light Rifle, which is basically a less powerful, more versatile Sniper Rifle, but does not have enough versatility to be considered a utility weapon.

 

As opposed to the DMR, which is a utility weapon that is way too easy to use at long range in addition to being already very versatile.

 

See what I mean?

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I don't intend on having 20 variations of the same gun either. But having the option to grab a niche pickup and capitalize on its strengths within its niche I believe adds to the game. The first gun I think of in H5 that does this well is the Light Rifle, which is basically a less powerful, more versatile Sniper Rifle, but does not have enough versatility to be considered a utility weapon.

 

As opposed to the DMR, which is a utility weapon that is way too easy to use at long range in addition to being already very versatile.

 

See what I mean?

The LR is way more acceptable than the DMR as a map pickup since it's being treated as a semi-power weapon kinda thing. But the DMR BR CC all do the same thing the pistol does. Those weapons are a problem

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the purpose of having one utility weapon is to solidify the fighting. Unless you have a power weapon you usually walk around with you utility weapon since it's the most viable option overall. Now at certain points you can switch to a niche weapon that's better suited, but you have to pick it up and use it properly. If we have a DMR BR LR etc. then that central aspect is gone. Now you can no longer guarantee the winner of the fight was the better shooter. It becomes more about "what rifle you have" instead. The fights are now unfair.

 

Hence why we all hope that the Magnum is 4sk. I only want one utility weapon as well, but I do like the LR, I consider it niche enough to not be a utility weapon. Seriously that can't be a utility weapon if it generally sucks outside of scope. And it doesn't have the amount of AA and magnetism the DMR does.

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The LR is way more acceptable than the DMR as a map pickup since it's being treated as a semi-power weapon kinda thing. But the DMR BR CC all do the same thing the pistol does. Those weapons are a problem

 

Um, I never disagreed? I just want niche weapons that can still actually be used as weapon effectively at the same time.

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Um, I never disagreed? I just want niche weapons that can still actually be used as weapon effectively at the same time.

Okay then we are good. It's just so many people have been pushing for all the guns to stay and having rifles on the map. But the LR may work. It'll at least be the most niche out of all the other rifles without diluting.

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And if you think the second is more competitive then WHAT THE HELL ARE WE ARGUING ABOUT? Because that is literally all I've been trying to say.

It's simply really. It doesn't sound like Halo 5. In fact, it doesn't even sound like Halo CE.

 

Your idea, although great in theory, is to create the perfect competitive shooter, but in doing so, you're straying far from it being Halo.

 

Put it simply, it's the small things like the Carbine killing faster than the BR, the SMG being a close-ranged monster, and the BR being able to 4-burst people that's fun and adds depth to the game.

 

Halo should be a fun game first, and a competitive one second. From there, the game can be tweaked as needed to fit the standards of professional play.

 

You may think that more than one utility weapon on the map is anti-competitive, but I think that even the pro gamers enjoy the choice.

 

There were many players who stuck exclusively with the Magnum while others like Jimbo would picked up a Battle Rifle or DMR whenever they could.

 

As for the automatic weapons, yes, removing all of them would be a very simple attempt at making the game more competitive. However, it isn't necessarily the best choice. In League of Legends, easy champions aren't removed from the game to make it more "competitive", they are kept in and players learn to work around them, and if they are too powerful, they are adjusted accordingly.

 

Your idea of creating a more competitive game doesn't make it a better game, but rather, it's a massive change that could go either way in terms of response.

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It's simply really. It doesn't sound like Halo 5. In fact, it doesn't even sound like Halo CE.

 

Your idea, although great in theory, is to create the perfect competitive shooter, but in doing so, you're straying far from it being Halo.

 

Put it simply, it's the small things like the Carbine killing faster than the BR, the SMG being a close-ranged monster, and the BR being able to 4-burst people that's fun and adds depth to the game.

 

Halo should be a fun game first, and a competitive one second. From there, the game can be tweaked as needed to fit the standards of professional play.

 

You may think that more than one utility weapon on the map is anti-competitive, but I think that even the pro gamers enjoy the choice.

 

There were many players who stuck exclusively with the Magnum while others like Jimbo would picked up a Battle Rifle or DMR whenever they could.

 

As for the automatic weapons, yes, removing all of them would be a very simple attempt at making the game more competitive. However, it isn't necessarily the best choice. In League of Legends, easy champions aren't removed from the game to make it more "competitive", they are kept in and players learn to work around them, and if they are too powerful, they are adjusted accordingly.

 

Your idea of creating a more competitive game doesn't make it a better game, but rather, it's a massive change that could go either way in terms of response.

I'm not trying to remove every weapon. I'm trying to keep the sandbox small, organized, and not diluted while keeping the skill level as high as possible. This is what happens when a game has 2 distinct play styles that are trying to be forged as one. Te most competitive settings infringe on the fun aspect and vice versa. I will always argue for the most skillful game possible because that is what I want this game to be. I understand the need for the "fun" things that many people enjoy. I don't want to remove them outright from the game I just don't want them to dilute the competitive game. But since 343 wants universal settings this situation arises. Things will be compromised because of this.

 

And LoL lets you ban champions for that exact reason. Halo doesn't have that luxury.

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It's simply really. It doesn't sound like Halo 5. In fact, it doesn't even sound like Halo CE.

 

Your idea, although great in theory, is to create the perfect competitive shooter, but in doing so, you're straying far from it being Halo.

 

Put it simply, it's the small things like the Carbine killing faster than the BR, the SMG being a close-ranged monster, and the BR being able to 4-burst people that's fun and adds depth to the game.

 

Halo should be a fun game first, and a competitive one second. From there, the game can be tweaked as needed to fit the standards of professional play.

 

You may think that more than one utility weapon on the map is anti-competitive, but I think that even the pro gamers enjoy the choice.

 

There were many players who stuck exclusively with the Magnum while others like Jimbo would picked up a Battle Rifle or DMR whenever they could.

 

As for the automatic weapons, yes, removing all of them would be a very simple attempt at making the game more competitive. However, it isn't necessarily the best choice. In League of Legends, easy champions aren't removed from the game to make it more "competitive", they are kept in and players learn to work around them, and if they are too powerful, they are adjusted accordingly.

 

Your idea of creating a more competitive game doesn't make it a better game, but rather, it's a massive change that could go either way in terms of response.

 

I'm one of those players who enjoys the little differences myself, and I could tell you all about how that little meta worked in H4 V4 and V5 settings, as I was that player who always picked stuff up.

 

But, even I have to admit that aside from firing modes there really is too many guns trying to squeeze into the same role.

 

The Light Rifle and Storm Rifle seem different enough for me, but the others would need more to differentiate themselves.

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I'm not trying to remove every weapon. I'm trying to keep the sandbox small, organized, and not diluted while keeping the skill level as high as possible. This is what happens when a game has 2 distinct play styles that are trying to be forged as one. Te most competitive settings infringe on the fun aspect and vice versa. I will always argue for the most skillful game possible because that is what I want this game to be. I understand the need for the "fun" things that many people enjoy. I don't want to remove them outright from the game I just don't want them to dilute the competitive game. But since 343 wants universal settings this situation arises. Things will be compromised because of this.

On the topic of automatics, what do you think about the Storm Rifle?

 

It shoots projectiles instead of bullets, it has a TTK that's very close to the SMG's, and players have to manage their heat level when firing.

 

Personally, I think it'd be a good replacement as a close ranged niche weapon, considering the skill needed to use it.

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On the topic of automatics, what do you think about the Storm Rifle?

 

It shoots projectiles instead of bullets, it has a TTK that's very close to the SMG's, and players have to manage their heat level when firing.

 

Personally, I think it'd be a good replacement as a close ranged niche weapon, considering the skill needed to use it.

I would rather have that over the other autos. It should also drop shields quickly which would make it a viable counter to OS. Plus it's more difficult to use and overheats very quickly. So IMO the auto niche weapon would be that one.

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I would rather have that over the other autos. It should also drop shields quickly which would make it a viable counter to OS. Plus it's more difficult to use and overheats very quickly. So IMO the auto niche weapon would be that one.

I honestly believe that the AR and SMG would be fine if they were tweaked to be harder to use like the Storm Rifle.

 

Maybe the AR's bullet magnetism should be removed to reward bursting while the SMG could get a higher max spread to stop people from using it at medium range.

 

That in addition to the Magnum getting buffed would really put them in healthy spots.

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I honestly believe that the AR and SMG would be fine if they were tweaked to be harder to use like the Storm Rifle.

 

Maybe the AR's bullet magnetism should be removed to reward bursting while the SMG could get a higher max spread to stop people from using it at medium range.

 

That in addition to the Magnum getting buffed would really put them in healthy spots.

Since we probably are going to have to deal with them then that would be a fair compromise. Make them hard to use heck you could just remove AA or make it really low. That way you really have to aim with them.

 

Ideally- smg: give it really bad spread and very low AA. It's meant to be used in really close combat so it's fire rate + bad spread and low AA keeps it in it's niche.

 

AR: first 3 bullets of a burst are accurate but after it gets awful spread. This makes it better at mid range but it still loses to the smg up close.

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Since we probably are going to have to deal with them then that would be a fair compromise. Make them hard to use heck you could just remove AA or make it really low. That way you really have to aim with them.

For the SMG, no AA sounds like a good solution since it's both a nerf and a slight buff to it.

 

It makes it hard to aim with, but in return, skilled players can take advantage of the zero AA and easily sweep their crosshair between different players in CQC.

 

Really, the reason why I've been arguing against your idea of removing the AR and SMG is because it does nothing to balance them, whereas severe TTK nerfs makes them useless, which is just poor game design.

 

I'm operating under the assumption that 343 isn't going to remove either of them, so hitting compromises sounds like the best plan.

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For the SMG, no AA sounds like a good solution since it's both a nerf and a slight buff to it.

 

It makes it hard to aim with, but in return, skilled players can take advantage of the zero AA and easily sweep their crosshair between different players in CQC.

 

Really, the reason why I've been arguing against your idea of removing the AR and SMG is because it does nothing to balance them, whereas severe TTK nerfs makes them useless, which is just poor game design.

 

I'm operating under the assumption that 343 isn't going to remove either of them, so hitting compromises sounds like the best plan.

I edited my post a little too. Yea I'm guessing for at least season 1 we will be using a lot of the sandbox. So balancing them is important now since they are gonna be there anyway.

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I edited my post a little too. Yea I'm guessing for at least season 1 we will be using a lot of the sandbox. So balancing them is important now since they are gonna be there anyway.

If it turns out well, it'll end up like Halo 3, which condensed the sandbox after a while.

 

Remember when Maulers and Flares were on maps?

 

Also, here's a GIF of the Storm Rifle in action.

 

JbIZ90q.gif

 

It seems strong, but that's just because his target isn't strafing.

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If it turns out well, it'll end up like Halo 3, which condensed the sandbox after a while.

 

Remember when Maulers and Flares were on maps?

 

Also, here's a GIF of the Storm Rifle in action.

 

JbIZ90q.gif

 

It seems strong, but that's just because his target isn't strafing.

Halo 3 early days are not to be mentioned. What I take away from that clip is that it overheats very quickly. Even on a guy that is basically standing still the gun was a couple shots away from overheating. So in many scenarios you won't get the kill with it before it overheats. That seems balanced for the most part.

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I honestly believe that the AR and SMG would be fine if they were tweaked to be harder to use like the Storm Rifle.

 

Maybe the AR's bullet magnetism should be removed to reward bursting while the SMG could get a higher max spread to stop people from using it at medium range.

 

That in addition to the Magnum getting buffed would really put them in healthy spots.

All autos need is to be harder to use.

 

Burst-firing needs to be a thing that you have to do if you want a quick kill time by making the gun pinpoint accurate. If you hold down the trigger longer than 2 or 3 shots then the bloom or recoil is instantly at CE levels of ridiculousness. Then add instant bloom or recoil reset rate and its about perfect. Would really fit the SMG. Imagine how the Gears of War 3 Retro Lancer firing mechanics work.

 

The AR could potentially work by acting like the XO16 Chaingun from Titanfall. Much weaker but laser accurate with zero spread at all ranges. Also gives it a utility by being versatile. For this work it would have to be a 19sk like Reach instead of the 12 or 13sk it is now.

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All autos need is to be harder to use.

 

Burst-firing needs to be a thing that you have to do if you want a quick kill time by making the gun pinpoint accurate. If you hold down the trigger longer than 2 or 3 shots then the bloom or recoil is instantly at CE levels of ridiculousness. Then add instant bloom or recoil reset rate and its about perfect. Would really fit the SMG. Imagine how the Gears of War 3 Retro Lancer firing mechanics work.

 

The AR could potentially work by acting like the XO16 Chaingun from Titanfall. Much weaker but laser accurate with zero spread at all ranges. Also gives it a utility by being versatile. For this work it would have to be a 19sk like Reach instead of the 12 or 13sk it is now.

 

ALSO the AR in this design could have headshot bonus damage due to zero spread so it would not break the game like it did in the beta. It being able to hit at all ranges inherently means it has to be a lot weaker.

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ALSO the AR in this design could have headshot bonus damage due to zero spread so it would not break the game like it did in the beta. It being able to hit at all ranges inherently means it has to be a lot weaker.

To be honest, it actually sounds a lot like the Sentinel Beam, other than the headshot bonus of course.

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To be honest, it actually sounds a lot like the Sentinel Beam, other than the headshot bonus of course.

 

I can kind of see that. I think that this would work for the AR especially as a spawn weapon. It would function as a weaker utility great for harassment and pinging, and could still have a decent killtime if you hit multiple headshots. Decreased AA of course. And it could have faster longer ranged melee, and quick powerup activation.

 

The casuals would get their AR, and us competitive types would get a different yet still somewhat skillful but not random option off spawn. And the Magnum would still kill quite a bit quicker.

 

It could be the win/win that Halo needs.

 

(Sigh) it is too bad ideas like this never make it to the devs...

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I haven't read the last few pages yet but ive been thinking and speed boost would be a perfect addition to hcs for H5.  

Not sure about damage boost yet because it might be too op/unbalanced, but speed boost would be perfect if all the precision weapons were buffed(pistol 3/4sk). 

I could care less about nerfing things just give all the precision weapons both fast and balanced skill based kill times, you know the kind that actually make you work for the kills.  Keep in mind that the weapon ranges should be an important key factor at all times.  Thanks.

Ill probably be interested in H5 if something like this happens.
:) @@TheSimms

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So I have to choose between 343's CoD version of the BR and the fkn AR?? That is like choosing between Jeb Bush or Donald Trump for president, either way were gonna end up getting fucked in one way or another. Guess Ill take pistol/AR because Halo 5 is already a campy game in slayer and adding the H5 BR(which is basically a DMR at this point) would just make Halo 5 even more campy.

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