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Halo 5: Guardians eSports/Arena Weapon Starts Poll

Arena Starting Weapons (constructive post gamescom thread)  

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  1. 1. Exports/Arena Starting Weapon Choices

    • Pistol + AR
    • Pistol + AR (AR nerfed)
    • Pistol + AR (Pistol patched to 4SK)
    • BR + Pistol
    • BR only
    • BR + AR
    • BR + AR (AR nerfed)
    • DMR Only / With AR (Is it viable over any of the above?)
    • Pistol Only


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The sandbox is already cluttered, which map design won't change. Halo has never been about variety for the sake of keeping things "fresh" that's what he is saying. Yes variety as in niche weapons that fill a role is great. Except Halo CE is the only game that has this right. That's why MLG settings have always been so different in other games. Variety as in different weapons that do different things is right. Variety as in 5 utility weapons, 3 automatic weapons and all that is not.

Some maps like Truth works well with DMR placed around. If the Magnum is buffed, then the non-changed DMR can act as a shorter-ranged Light Rifle, which is fine.

 

Especially now with scopes guns are usable outside their intense range.

Zooming with automatics doesn't increase the accuracy. That was one of the changes made after the beta.

 

Stuff like this creates Rock Paper Scissors gameplay and that is not what Halo has ever been about. In Halo CE how many times do you encounter someone who isn't holding either a utility weapon or a power weapon? Now watch te Halo 5 gameplay and you will see a difference immediately. Gun skill is being removed when guns just can't win in certain scenarios.

 

If I have a Shotgun and you have a Magnum, but we engage in close quarters, I deserve to win the fight because you entered my range niche. It was like that in CE.

 

Halo has never been a game about pure gun skill.

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Some maps like Truth works well with DMR placed around. If the Magnum is buffed, then the non-changed DMR can act as a shorter-ranged Light Rifle, which is fine.

 

Zooming with automatics doesn't increase the accuracy. That was one of the changes made after the beta.

 

If I have a Shotgun and you have a Magnum, but we engage in close quarters, I deserve to win the fight because you entered my range niche. It was like that in CE.

 

Halo has never been a game about pure gun skill.

Outside of point blank range the shotgun was utterly useless. That's completely different. If you had it equipped and you managed to use it in close range you earned your kill. Plus you had to pick it up off the map. Zooming with automatics helps you aim that's a problem. It makes them easier to use. And remember when they told us it didn't give bonuses during the beta? Yeah that was true. Why would we need a short range Lightrifle? Isn't that what our pistol is? This is just diluting the sandbox. Rather than have 5 weapons that do really similar things we need to limit it as much as possible to keep te settings as competitive as possible.

 

CE has a 3 shot pistol. It literally balanced everything. If you don't kill with one shotgun shot you are almost guaranteed to die. CE could get away with the weapons it had because the pistol could still beat everything that wasn't a power weapon.

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The sandbox is already cluttered, which map design won't change. Halo has never been about variety for the sake of keeping things "fresh" that's what he is saying. Yes variety as in niche weapons that fill a role is great. Except Halo CE is the only game that has this right. That's why MLG settings have always been so different in other games. Variety as in different weapons that do different things is right. Variety as in 5 utility weapons, 3 automatic weapons and all that is not. Especially now with scopes guns are usable outside their intense range. Stuff like this creates Rock Paper Scissors gameplay and that is not what Halo has ever been about. In Halo CE how many times do you encounter someone who isn't holding either a utility weapon or a power weapon? Now watch te Halo 5 gameplay and you will see a difference immediately. Gun skill is being removed when guns just can't win in certain scenarios.

 

 

Having somehow had the patience to read through this entire thread, it sounds like you want to just stick to the boring BR/Rockets/Snipe meta, with niche weapons that are 'right' as in: not worth using. Hence you never see anyone use them.

 

 

 

I believe that what me and some people are looking forward to seeing with H5, or hope to see, is moving past the BR/Rockets/Snipe meta and into a more evolved meta.

 

This meta seems like rock/paper/scissors at first, but what I believe we looking for is a rock/paper/scissors/Magnum meta, where the Magnum is the equalizer for rock/paper/scissors gameplay.

 

The problem is, this is VERY dependant on wether the Magnum is buffed to a 4sk or not. Please enlighten us @@Sal1ent!

 

Even if the Magnum stays as is, I still very much enjoy the AR+Magnum starts meta we already have as opposed to the incredibly aggrevating BR/Rockets/Snipe meta we have been feeding ourselves.

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I would be in favor of Carbine starts, from what I have seen it is a fairly fast kill time and is a skillful weapon to use with "outplay" potential if you will. You could throw in pistol secondary or no secondary idc. If not that then Pistol/AR starts imo, the BR just seems way too weak. I love my BR but we need to not sacrifice better options for nostalgia's sack. 

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Outside of point blank range the shotgun was utterly useless. That's completely different. If you had it equipped and you managed to use it in close range you earned your kill. Plus you had to pick it up off the map. Zooming with automatics helps you aim that's a problem. It makes them easier to use. And remember when they told us it didn't give bonuses during the beta? Yeah that was true. Why would we need a short range Lightrifle? Isn't that what our pistol is? This is just diluting the sandbox. Rather than have 5 weapons that do really similar things we need to limit it as much as possible to keep te settings as competitive as possible.

 

CE has a 3 shot pistol. It literally balanced everything. If you don't kill with one shotgun shot you are almost guaranteed to die. CE could get away with the weapons it had because the pistol could still beat everything that wasn't a power weapon.

 

I think you're thinking of Halo 2 because the Halo 1 shotgun was NOT useless outside point blank at all. And most people could get off at least 2 or 3 shots before dying to a pistol. The ROF is not that low. Halo 1 shotty is pretty good on LAN in Chill Out and Longest especially on host.

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Having somehow had the patience to read through this entire thread, it sounds like you want to just stick to the boring BR/Rockets/Snipe meta, with niche weapons that are 'right' as in: not worth using. Hence you never see anyone use them.

 

 

 

I believe that what me and some people are looking forward to seeing with H5, or hope to see, is moving past the BR/Rockets/Snipe meta and into a more evolved meta.

 

This meta seems like rock/paper/scissors at first, but what I believe we looking for is a rock/paper/scissors/Magnum meta, where the Magnum is the equalizer for rock/paper/scissors gameplay.

 

The problem is, this is VERY dependant on wether the Magnum is buffed to a 4sk or not. Please enlighten us @@Sal1ent!

 

Even if the Magnum stays as is, I still very much enjoy the AR+Magnum starts meta we already have as opposed to the incredibly aggrevating BR/Rockets/Snipe meta we have been feeding ourselves.

...I am pushing for magnum starts. No I don't want that BR/power weps meta. I want a CE meta. Guns like the smg AR BR DMR LR CC Aren't adding to the meta they are just cluttering the sandbox. I would bend only to adding the AR but the other weapons are not good at all for comp.

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I think you're thinking of Halo 2 because the Halo 1 shotgun was NOT useless outside point blank at all. And most people could get off at least 2 or 3 shots before dying to a pistol. The ROF is not that low. Halo 1 shotty is pretty good on LAN in Chill Out and Longest especially on host.

It's still really close range. But it is balanced by having a 3sk pistol. No other game has had a utility weapon like that yet the shotgun has stayed relatively the same. That is problem.

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BRs are boring..... but they fucking work

ARs & Mags are too sprayi but it was fun to watch and it's the game's vanilla ver. But AR looked EZ but then again LoL and Dota has tons of really basic heroes too

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Outside of point blank range the shotgun was utterly useless. That's completely different. If you had it equipped and you managed to use it in close range you earned your kill. Plus you had to pick it up off the map.

Outside of short range, the SMG is horrible. Unless you can ambush someone, they'll Magnum you in the face if they see you first. You also have to pick it up off the map.
 

Zooming with automatics helps you aim that's a problem. It makes them easier to use.

It doesn't. It's visual flair that replaces the awkward binoculars you got when you tried to zoom in with non-zoom capable weapons in past titles.

 

And remember when they told us it didn't give bonuses during the beta? Yeah that was true.

Irrelevant. I can see with my own eyes that whatever bonus (if any) given by zooming is significantly lower than what it was in the beta.

 

Why would we need a short range Lightrifle? Isn't that what our pistol is? This is just diluting the sandbox. Rather than have 5 weapons that do really similar things we need to limit it as much as possible to keep te settings as competitive as possible.

Why do we have a Beam Rifle when we have a Sniper Rifle? Why do we have a Brute Shot when we have a Rocket Launcher? Why do we have a Storm Rifle when we have an SMG?

 

Simple, because it adds variety to the sandbox. If the Magnum is buffed, then the DMR becomes an alternative to the Light Rifle, not the Magnum. For instance, you wouldn't put a Sniper Rifle on Truth for balance reasons. However, the DMR and the Light Rifle can be placed down instead to take advantage of the sight lines.

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Outside of short range, the SMG is horrible. Unless you can ambush someone, they'll Magnum you in the face if they see you first. You also have to pick it up off the map.

 

It doesn't. It's visual flair that replaces the awkward binoculars you got when you tried to zoom in with non-zoom capable weapons in past titles.

 

Irrelevant. I can see with my own eyes that whatever bonus (if any) given by zooming is significantly lower than what it was in the beta.

 

Why do we have a Beam Rifle when we have a Sniper Rifle? Why do we have a Brute Shot when we have a Rocket Launcher? Why do we have a Storm Rifle when we have an SMG?

 

Simple, because it adds variety to the sandbox. If the Magnum is buffed, then the DMR becomes an alternative to the Light Rifle, not the Magnum. For instance, you wouldn't put a Sniper Rifle on Truth for balance reasons. However, the DMR and the Light Rifle can be placed down instead to take advantage of the sight lines.

The smg works outside it's intended range did you not watch the invitational? It was OP as hell. Even without a bonus ADS allows you to aim at longer ranges easier that's what scoping in does since it slows your sensitivity down. Guess how many if your "variety" weapons have been in competitive play? How many Beam Rifles have we used? How many brute shots? CE had the most "variety" with less overall weapons. You know why? Because every weapon filled ONE roll. That's the problem. The DMR BR LR CC all fill the SAME role. That's not variety, that's redundancy. Changing small aspects of guns that full the same role is pointless. It causes unnecessary variables. Btw do you recall having sniper and beam rifles spawn on the same map in comp? Because I don't.

 

You want to know why they added those weapons? For casual play. The same reason Halo 2 had smg starts. The same reason Halo 3 had AR starts. It's just different weapons for fun scenarios not competitive ones.

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The smg works outside it's intended range did you not watch the invitational? It was OP as hell.

You mean the clip on game 5? Yeah, the dude was injured and the SMG had no aim assist. That was a cleanup, not a duel.
 

Even without a bonus ADS allows you to aim at longer ranges easier that's what scoping in does since it slows your sensitivity down.

So? Zooming doesn't increase its effective range. Just because the Shotgun can zoom doesn't mean that it fires farther.

 

Guess how many if your "variety" weapons have been in competitive play? How many Beam Rifles have we used? How many brute shots?

Does it matter? This is Halo 5. Just because Halo 3 didn't use the Spartan Laser competitively doesn't mean that Halo 5 can't use Beam Rifles for certain maps.

 

Btw do you recall having sniper and beam rifles spawn on the same map in comp? Because I don't.

This is exactly what I'm suggesting for.

 

Keep the weapons, but only place them down on a per-map basis to avoid clutter.

 

For example, keep the DMR on Empire, but remove the Battle Rifle as a pickup because it serves the same role. The DMR is different enough from the Pistol that it's worth picking up (longer range), but it's also effective enough to serve as a weaker utility weapon in case someone runs out of ammo or if they want to play a support role for their team.

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You mean the clip on game 5? Yeah, the dude was injured and the SMG had no aim assist. That was a cleanup, not a duel.

 

 

 

So? Zooming doesn't increase its effective range. Just because the Shotgun can zoom doesn't mean that it fires farther.

 

Does it matter? This is Halo 5. Just because Halo 3 didn't use the Spartan Laser competitively doesn't mean that Halo 5 can't use Beam Rifles for certain maps.

 

This is exactly what I'm suggesting for.

 

Keep the weapons, but only place them down on a per-map basis to avoid clutter.

 

For example, keep the DMR on Empire, but remove the Battle Rifle as a pickup because it serves the same role. The DMR is different enough from the Pistol that it's worth picking up (longer range), but it's also effective enough to serve as a weaker utility weapon in case someone runs out of ammo or if they want to play a support role for their team.

It's more so the fact that it works well enough outside close range. It needs way more bloom. The zoom point was about the auto weapons. Since you can zoom you can aim easier. That's a problem. I'm not saying we can't have 2 different snipes. I'm saying having more than 1 isn't necessary. However, we can use a different on different maps that is fine. That kind of variety I am okay with. Now the rifles is where I am most skeptical. We have never had on map pick ups that can beat our utility weapon in long range. Especially with our 5sk pistol the DMR completely outclassed the pistol. So we basically have a utility weapon that is no longer a utility weapon. Even if the pistol was a 4sk I would still be nervous. If I see enough gameplay with a 4sk pistol battling a DMR user I will make a statement then.

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...I am pushing for magnum starts. No I don't want that BR/power weps meta. I want a CE meta. Guns like the smg AR BR DMR LR CC Aren't adding to the meta they are just cluttering the sandbox. I would bend only to adding the AR but the other weapons are not good at all for comp.

 

 

Well I'm certainly glad that you don't want that BR/power pickups meta.

 

I do see your point about having ALL those guns at once cluttering the sandbox, however, I think the idea is not to use all of them at once on the map at the same time, however, having that short-to-mid range auto to help counter that Shotgun/Sword or rush the Sniper guy, having that DMR or LR to suppress the cqc/mid range weapons or counter the snipers, this can add to the meta, and fits that control items on map theme that Halo has, at least for me. The trick is that you generally only want one of each type on a map at a time.

 

Example:

 

1 type short-mid auto (SMG, PR, Suppressor, or AR)

 

1 type Mid-range rifle (BR or CC)

 

1 type long-range rifle (DMR or LR)

 

In general that is the idea. And on some maps you may want to have an SMG instead of a Shotgun, an LR instead of a Sniper, etc. Optimizing each map with its own set of weapons, for both better gameplay as well as variety and more combat options and things to practice.

 

I'm trying my best to explain it.

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Well I'm certainly glad that you don't want that BR/power pickups meta.

 

I do see your point about having ALL those guns at once cluttering the sandbox, however, I think the idea is not to use all of them at once on the map at the same time, however, having that short-to-mid range auto to help counter that Shotgun/Sword or rush the Sniper guy, having that DMR or LR to suppress the cqc/mid range weapons or counter the snipers, this can add to the meta, and fits that control items on map theme that Halo has, at least for me. The trick is that you generally only want one of each type on a map at a time.

 

Example:

 

1 type short-mid auto (SMG, PR, Suppressor, or AR)

 

1 type Mid-range rifle (BR or CC)

 

1 type long-range rifle (DMR or LR)

 

In general that is the idea. And on some maps you may want to have an SMG instead of a Shotgun, an LR instead of a Sniper, etc. Optimizing each map with its own set of weapons, for both better gameplay as well as variety and more combat options and things to practice.

 

I'm trying my best to explain it.

Ok I see what you are saying. Having a very limited amount would be a good start. I am just skeptical about starting with a full auto weapon. Now if they buff the pistol it would make it a lot more bearable. It would also almost negate the DMR BR LR CC issue of those rifles being able to outclass out utility weapon at some ranges. But if we did only have like 1 or 2 rifles on the map while we ourselves have a 4sk pistol I would be fine. Not my optimal settings but I'll live.

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Also, in my opinion autos should be effective from short to mid range, able to challenge both cqc weapons (Shotgun/Sword), and mid range rifles/other types of mid-range guns.

 

If they are only good in cqc, then I will drop them for Shotgun/Sword every time because those are straight upgrades.

 

The same reason that we don't want straight upgrade utility weapons on the map is the same reason why I don't want automatic weapons to only be good in cqc.

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It's more so the fact that it works well enough outside close range. It needs way more bloom.

I think the DMR is fine. If the Magnum gets buffed, it'll beat the DMR up close 100% of the time, assuming that both players are equally skilled.

 

The zoom point was about the auto weapons. Since you can zoom you can aim easier.

Zooming in its current state is fine, since it doesn't actually increase the AR or SMG's accuracy or range. Even if it did slow down aiming, you could do the same thing without zooming by simply not pushing as far on your right analog stuck.

 

Now the rifles is where I am most skeptical. We have never had on map pick ups that can beat our utility weapon in long range. Especially with our 5sk pistol the DMR completely outclassed the pistol. So we basically have a utility weapon that is no longer a utility weapon. Even if the pistol was a 4sk I would still be nervous. If I see enough gameplay with a 4sk pistol battling a DMR user I will make a statement then.

Technically, the DMR and Magnum have the same range (which is unlimited). This isn't like Halo CE where the Magnum's bullets have a hard-coded range. The only difference between it and the DMR is that the DMR has a higher zoom and probably higher bullet magnetism, making it easier to use for long range.

 

If it was buffed, a Magnum user with good aim would always beat a DMR user in a direct gun fight, regardless of the range.

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Having somehow had the patience to read through this entire thread, it sounds like you want to just stick to the boring BR/Rockets/Snipe meta, with niche weapons that are 'right' as in: not worth using. Hence you never see anyone use them.

 

 

 

I believe that what me and some people are looking forward to seeing with H5, or hope to see, is moving past the BR/Rockets/Snipe meta and into a more evolved meta.

 

This meta seems like rock/paper/scissors at first, but what I believe we looking for is a rock/paper/scissors/Magnum meta, where the Magnum is the equalizer for rock/paper/scissors gameplay.

 

The problem is, this is VERY dependant on wether the Magnum is buffed to a 4sk or not. Please enlighten us @@Sal1ent!

 

Even if the Magnum stays as is, I still very much enjoy the AR+Magnum starts meta we already have as opposed to the incredibly aggrevating BR/Rockets/Snipe meta we have been feeding ourselves.

I'm all for weapon variety as long as it doesn't dilute the sandbox with too many redundant weapons. IMO Halo 5's weapon sandbox is currently better than Halo 2's and Halo 3's sandbox but it's still not as good as Halo CE's sandbox. To avoid cluttering the sandbox in Halo 5 343 needs to differentiate the guns more by adding different traits to them to make them more unique and give them more of a purpose. Here are a couple of examples of unique traits that 343 can give to some of the weapons in Halo 5:

  • Give the AR the ability to be able to go into camo quicker and be able to cancel the power-up animations.
  • Give the SMG the ability to either melee quicker or a longer melee range.
  • Give the storm rifle a stun/slow turn effect.

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I'm all for weapon variety as long as it doesn't dilute the sandbox with too many redundant weapons. IMO Halo 5's weapon sandbox is currently better than Halo 2's and Halo 3's sandbox but it's still not as good as Halo CE's sandbox. To avoid cluttering the sandbox in Halo 5 343 needs to differentiate the guns more by adding different traits to them to make them more unique and give them more of a purpose. Here are a couple of examples of unique traits that 343 can give to some weapons in Halo 5.

 

  • Give the AR the ability to be able to go into camo quicker and be able to cancel the power-up animations.
  • Give the SMG the ability to either melee quicker or a longer melee range.
  • Give the storm rifle a stun/slow turn effect.

 

  • I think the AR's in a healthy spot. It's the Magnum that needs to be buffed.
  • The SMG already dominates in CQC. There's no need to make it even better.
  • The Storm Rifle is essentially a harder-to-use SMG with higher range. Considering how quickly it kills if your shots connect, the weapon is fine.

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I think the DMR is fine. If the Magnum gets buffed, it'll beat the DMR up close 100% of the time, assuming that both players are equally skilled.

 

Zooming in its current state is fine, since it doesn't actually increase the AR or SMG's accuracy or range. Even if it did slow down aiming, you could do the same thing without zooming by simply not pushing as far on your right analog stuck.

 

Technically, the DMR and Magnum have the same range (which is unlimited). This isn't like Halo CE where the Magnum's bullets have a hard-coded range. The only difference between it and the DMR is that the DMR has a higher zoom and probably higher bullet magnetism, making it easier to use for long range.

 

If it was buffed, a Magnum user with good aim would always beat a DMR user in a direct gun fight, regardless of the range.

You do know that scoping in helps you aim a lot right? Yea you an say "move your stick less" but that doesn't make it easier. Try and line up your reticle to something far away. Now scope in and do it. You can't say it's not easier and that is the point. As far as your "range" statement I know the bullets don't drop off. That's not the only way to measure "range" RRR and zoom play a huge part. Because the DMR has more zoom it is easier to use at range. This is a fact. I don't know the difference between RRR of the two so I can't speak on that but you are just ignoring range completely. We have never had a weapon in the sandbox that was easier to use/more effective at range than our utility weapon that wasn't a power weapon.

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  • I think the AR's in a healthy spot. It's the Magnum that needs to be buffed.
  • The SMG already dominates in CQC. There's no need to make it even better.
  • The Storm Rifle is essentially a harder-to-use SMG with higher range. Considering how quickly it kills if your shots connect, the weapon is fine.
Your opinion on the state of the automatic weapons in this game is just so...off. I don't understand you at all.

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Ok I see what you are saying. Having a very limited amount would be a good start. I am just skeptical about starting with a full auto weapon. Now if they buff the pistol it would make it a lot more bearable. It would also almost negate the DMR BR LR CC issue of those rifles being able to outclass out utility weapon at some ranges. But if we did only have like 1 or 2 rifles on the map while we ourselves have a 4sk pistol I would be fine. Not my optimal settings but I'll live.

 

 

Hey guess what, currently 343I is already only putting a 1 or 2 from each type of tier 2 weapons on the maps from what we could see in the invitational, so it actually seems like you won't have to worry much there.

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Hey guess what, currently 343I is already only putting a 1 or 2 from each type of tier 2 weapons on the maps from what we could see in the invitational, so it actually seems like you won't have to worry much there.

Let's really hope they keep it minimal then.

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Hey guess what, currently 343I is already only putting a 1 or 2 from each type of tier 2 weapons on the maps from what we could see in the invitational, so it actually seems like you won't have to worry much there.

Double post, ignore

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Your opinion on the state of the automatic weapons in this game is just so...off. I don't understand you at all.

Automatic weapons have a place in competitive Halo.

 

I've dealt with it, and so can you.

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