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Shekkles

Halo 5: Guardians, the ultimate Pro and Con thread.

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I just thought it might help if we put up a a big thread of Halo 5's pro's and cons. Our community seems polarized between people not wanting Halo 5 and ones who are still interested. So let's put some facts up.

 

If I have missed something out, let me know, but I'm trying to be unbiased here. 

 

@@CyReN @@Saucey I feel this could use it's own thread, as this debate is starting to take up a lot of space inthe H5G Discussion thread. But you're the boss's.

 

 

Pros for Halo 5:

 

- Dedicated Servers for all multiplayer games, all the time.

- No P2P connections. At all.

- Arena, the 4v4 competitive orientated experience.

- Warzone, a nice new take on BTB taking the benefits of MOBA's.

- Improve hit detection it seems.

- Aesthetic upgrades and cosmetics, hundreds of them.

- @@Sal1ent and other 343 members have been in here to help clarify and discuss things, this is a HUGE bonus.

- We had an early beta which feedback actually mattered, it wasn't just a demo.

- Xbox's might start selling well so we have enough players to find games.

- HCS

- Huge dev support for competitive. We've not seen this before. If H2A, a failure of a game, had this much support for HCS, H5 will have triple. This can't be emphasised enough, it's awesome to see.

- Co-op focused campaign.

- Extended story.

- Dem cinematics.

- Static power weapon timers

- No armour abilities or perks

- No ordnance

- Powerups are back.

- Advanced ranking system.

 

Cons for Halo 5:

 

- 343's track record is appauling. They splintered the population of Reach to the point where 25k people were online but 20 were in a single playlist. Halo 4 utterly failed at retaining a playerbase. It removed too many key features and added ones detrimental to Halo. This isn't opinion, there are many facts supporting this. Master Chief Collection is still broken. Do we want to buy a game from a company that has a broken game on the market for over a year?

- Halo 5 moves very far away from traditional Halo. Sprint and clamber cater to a lower tier of players that can frustrate veterans.

- No legacy bonuses (so far). I've got every Halo and played every Halo online. Rewards pls.

- No LAN support. This is Xbox's fault, but it's still a massive con.

- Massive maps that cater to sprint. In the beta games lasted a long time against good players due to the nature of H5's abilities. 

- Sprint. This is here because most people here don't like it.

- I cannot emphasise how terrible MCC is. It's a disgrace and has murdered the hype for many fans. It needs it's own point. The last game they released DIDN'T WORK. Why should we believe Halo 5 will work?

- No splitscreen. The first Halo to not have splitscreen. Halo used to be the safest bet for split screen. "Hey that new game came out, is it split screen? No? Lets just play Halo then..."  No more.

 

 

There are many points for and against. I will probably get Halo 5, I want an arena team based shooter with weapons on the map. I want this kind of game. Halo 5 does not look like the Halo I want to play, but it does look like a game that I want to play. We'll see. I'm still pissed about MCC.

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You should remove the MCC and Reach mentions. To be honest, neither of them have anything to do with Halo 5, and it seems that they're just there to make the Cons list look bigger than it really is.

 

That isn't to say that they aren't bad things, but I believe that the list should have relevant points.

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MCC is on the list twice isn't it?

 

Aside from that, it's a decent list, but... I feel like there's not much room for discussion? At this point, people either agree to disagree, or just make posts in hopes of changing a big component of Halo 5 to make it more like classic Halo... or just spend their time deterring others from looking forward to the game.

 

It's not so much a debate as it is people just have strong opinions and liking to argue over theirs being the right one. Some people will settle for nothing but classic, some people are in-between and willing to accept change as long as the game doesn't become a complete shitshow like default H4 and remains competitive, and others just want a straight up modern shooter and/or don't care for mechanics as long as it's Master Chief and friends.

 

All in all, people just need to learn that it's alright not to have the same opinion a bit more instead of arguing over the same points 24/7 that everyone (including 343) acknowledged at one point or another.

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MCC is on the list twice isn't it?

 

Yep.
 

Aside from that, it's a decent list, but... I feel like there's not much room for discussion? 

 

I hope you're correct. I hope this thread falls into obscurity. I want the MCC angry crowd to move on and enjoy other game so us players who want to play this new title can talk about it. But it's a fair warning, their last game did kill a lot of hype.

 

That isn't to say that they aren't bad things, but I believe that the list should have relevant points.

 

The last game the company released didn't work. That is definitely a con for their new title. I feel it's very relevant. 

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No splitscreen. Halo 5 will be the only Halo FPS without local multiplayer. That's a massive con for me anyway, considering it throws a wrench into how I've been playing Halo for over a decade.

 

No LAN is a dagger to the back as well. The features that facilitated playing with people in the same room were either impossible due to DRM, or placed very far down on the priority list.

 

MCC was/is a travesty.

 

Despite all that, I'll likely get Halo 5 at launch (after I hear it's working), because boycotting won't do anything, and their are plenty of good things about the game that I don't want to miss out on, as you've listed.

 

My cognitive dissonance is off the charts right now.

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No splitscreen.

 

Forgot about that, my bad.

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A big con for me is the lack of "old Halo" for sure. By that I mean the complete change in audio and visuals (weapons, medals etc). 
But that is just me, like you have said a solid game for todays standards but not so much a good Halo.

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Pros No Spartan Abilities? Isnt sprint, slide, shoulder charge, ground pound etc not Spartan abilities? 

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Pros No Spartan Abilities? Isnt sprint, slide, shoulder charge, ground pound etc not Spartan abilities? 

It says Armour Abilities. I guess he means not being able to choose one in a loadout. Equal starts for Halo 5.

 

Which shouldnt even be in the discussion imo. Like who would ever have dreamed that we wont have equal starts in Halo one day?

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technically power weapons are static, where as "tier 2" weapons are dynamic - Needler, Plasma Pistol, Shotgun, Hydra, Rail Gun, Energy Sword, Scattershot

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It says Armour Abilities. I guess he means not being able to choose one in a loadout. Equal starts for Halo 5.

 

Which shouldnt even be in the discussion imo. Like who would ever have dreamed that we wont have equal starts in Halo one day?

 

Just like smart scope isnt ADS  B)

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Just like smart scope isnt ADS  B)

But the pro about it is that everyone has the same stuff. Doesnt make them good though I agree with that ;)

 

 

Also for the pro side: Higher shooting skill gap. Pretty much the main reason I dont play H2A (the easy shooting)

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Not like it really matters that much but here is my personal list of pros and cons for Halo 5.

 

 

Pros for Halo 5:

 

  • Static spawns for power weapons.
  • No dual wielding so that the weapon sandbox can be stronger.
  • Grenades can't explode in mid-air from gun fire anymore. (Post beta change.)
  • Strafing is more responsive. (Post beta change.)
  • Being able to weapon launch with sticky grenades.
  • Increased base player movement speed and decreased top sprint speed. (Post beta change.)
  • Dedicated servers for matchmaking, custom games, and campaign.
  • A good ranking system.
  • A spectator mode.
  • Being able to crouch jump and gandhi hop again because of a change in controls for ground and pound. (Post beta change.)
  • Zooming in with weapons such as the sniper rifle is now more responsive. (Post beta change.)
  • Being able to turn off controller vibration. (Post beta change.)
  • Reduced bonuses for auto weapons being scoped in. (Post beta change.)
  • Developer support.
  • REQ packs supporting prize pools for the HCS.
  • Free DLC maps.

 

 

Cons for Halo 5:

 

  • No split-screen for campaign and multiplayer. (Very upset that I can't play split-screen campaign and multiplayer with my little brother.)
  • No lan support.
  • Too many utility weapons/rifles cluttering and diluting the weapon sandbox(we only need one of them.)
  • Spartan abilities such as sprint, thruster pack, and clamber in their current form aren't flexible enough for players to use and force players to put their gun down to use them. (Ruins the flow of combat by interrupting it with animations.)
  • Power-up animations interrupting the flow of combat.
  • A different spawn system for every weapon tier that causes inconsistencies and might confuse a lot of players. (Every weapon and power-up in the sandbox needs to be on static spawns for consistency and clarity.)
  • TTK for the utility weapons are now too long. (From the post beta Warzone game play so this might change in the future.)
  • 343 seems too adamant on the HCS settings so we might never get to see the most competitively optimal settings for Halo 5 flourish. (343 wants the HCS settings to be very similar to the default out of box settings so it appeals to more players.)
  • Arena maps being built around sprint.
  • No big team and other niche but important playlists at launch.
  • The way smart scope aesthetically looks really turns me off. I prefer the way traditional Halo zoom looks more than smart scope but this is just a nitpick. 
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IMO Halo 5 under the right settings might have a lot of potential to be a decent competitive game. It's just up to the community and 343 to support the optimal competitive settings for Halo 5. That's why I try to passionately light a fire underneath people's asses on here but sometimes what I say can be negatively received by people so I get a lot of flak for it. Most of the flak I get I deserve though because I love to talk recklessly.

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You should remove the MCC and Reach mentions. To be honest, neither of them have anything to do with Halo 5, and it seems that they're just there to make the Cons list look bigger than it really is.

 

That isn't to say that they aren't bad things, but I believe that the list should have relevant points.

why did you get negged for this, those points simply inflate the list

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MCC is a failure because they tried to combine four games onto a single disc without being given enough time by Microsoft to actually figure out the network coding, etc., to make it work correctly.  The only other game that 343 has made, H4, played perfectly on day one (maps were terrible but that has nothing to do with gameplay).  The failure of MCC is due more to MS trying to push the game out before Christmas, rather than being 343's fault.  

 

 

edit: I should add that, obviously, 343 has failed with MCC in a ton of ways after launch, but that's a separate issue; I'm not a fan of 343

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MCC is a failure because they tried to combine four games onto a single disc without being given enough time by Microsoft to actually figure out the network coding, etc., to make it work correctly.  The only other game that 343 has made, H4, played perfectly on day one (maps were terrible but that has nothing to do with gameplay).  The failure of MCC is due more to MS trying to push the game out before Christmas, rather than being 343's fault.  

Matchmaking was down for most of day one and the file browser didn't work until like March.

 

Their first game was not flawless.

 

Stop blaming Microsoft for MCC. If 343 couldn't get it done, they should have manned up and said that.

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I don't see the point of this. Many of the "facts" are subjective, especially for the pros list, and some are things that should be standard in Halo and don't merit applause. I could add dozens of things to the cons list.

 

Some people are willing to "adapt" and other aren't. I wish some people wouldn't pretend they're satisfied with the game. Our goal should be to push for a better game, not to accept whatever we're given and hope to avoid the onset of negativity. Criticizing Halo isn't something I like to do; it's something I have to do.

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The halo 5 con list would be the length of a novel if we were to list out each gameplay fallacy. No amount of dev support could compensate for how terrible halo 5 is to play and spectate.

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The last game the company released didn't work. That is definitely a con for their new title. I feel it's very relevant. 

 

 

As far as I can tell, MCC is the exception, not the norm, and it was a cluster-fuck of a project.

 

Both Halo 4 and Halo 5's Beta worked very well in comparison.

 

If Honda makes three cars and one of them is bad, it doesn't make the other two cars bad, but it does hurt Honda's image.

 

This is supposed to be a cons list for Halo 5, not 343.

 

MCC and Reach aren't relevant to this list.

 

(Also, Helioskrill is a legacy bonus. You just have to get all of MCC's achievements.)

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Matchmaking was down for most of day one and the file browser didn't work until like March.

 

Their first game was not flawless.

 

Stop blaming Microsoft for MCC. If 343 couldn't get it done, they should have manned up and said that.

 

 

That's not how corporations work ... companies push through sweeping IT changes (for example) all the time without giving their programmers enough time to actually write good code; this also happens in government, most recently with the online portal for PPACA.  I don't think it's quite as simple as 343 calling Steve Ballmer and saying "we need more time!"

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ADS is still on some weapons

 

 

classic scope should be in the game

 

 

 

also yeah, I think MS pushed 343 to release MCC in november. 

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That's not how corporations work ... companies push through sweeping IT changes (for example) all the time without giving their programmers enough time to actually write good code; this also happens in government, most recently with the online portal for PPACA.  I don't think it's quite as simple as 343 calling Steve Ballmer and saying "we need more time!"

I doubt Steve Balmer was involved with the publishing of MCC but sure, if that's your example.

 

So many games have been delayed to give them more time and MCC should have been one of those games. It was bad management on (presumably) Dan Ayoub's part for thinking the game could have been completed in the time it had which was probably less than a year.

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ADS is still on some weapons

 

 

classic scope should be in the game

 

 

 

also yeah, I think MS pushed 343 to release MCC in november. 

 

 

Well it's now July 30th, 2015 and the game still doesn't work. Does that mean that today would have been too aggressive of a release date too?

 

343 simply doesn't have the talent to make the game. The deadline could have been 6 months or 6 years. It would still be broken. And that's why people are terrified of Halo 5.

 

 

On Topic: I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that no LAN support is Microsoft's fault. The Gears of War announcement suggests that all we had to do to get LAN support was to........ask. Apparently 343 couldn't be troubled to think of that possibility.

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