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Posts posted by bunniesz23

  1. Sorry I've been at work, I figured I'd leave a comprehensive post so people don't have to backtrack through pages since it seems like following a logic train is too hard for some. I'm going to boil this down in the most structured, and simplified way possible to get my point across. 


    First of all, there are two precedents that we need to all agree upon (and we should agree upon).


    1: Randomness in a competitive environment is bad game design (ie. bloom, spread, rng, unpredictable movement) I can tell immediately I'm going to enjoy this post.

    2: Handicaps in a competitive environment are bad, meaning if a team has the skill to absolutely crush another team the game should allow them to do so without interfering. 


    Strongholds poses too many objectives to create actual structured gameplay we like to promote in competitive Halo. When I say structured I mean it's both random, and not conducive to the 4v4 player count competitive Halo is built around. 

    A triple cap breaks strongholds in every developer map we've seen in Halo 5. A majority of the time most pro teams won't attempt triple caps on the 'better' stronghold maps like Plaza and Rig.  That's because the second you capture all zones the remaining team can spawn relatively anywhere instead of being allocated to the corner 1/3rd of the map.  The best strategy MOST of the time is to give the enemy team a single zone in the corner and spawn trap them until the timer runs out.  This is no different than Slayer and completely diminishes the purpose of even having an objective.  Like I've already mentioned earlier- This demonstrates a pretty glaring lack of understanding of both spawns in this game and of the way Strongholds plays. The reason for not pushing a trip cap is simply risk-aversion. You don't push for trip cap because 1. you might lose numbers pushing a hill you don't need 2. you push away from spawns that are important to block (this is an important distinction, as Stronghold state has very little if any effect on spawning).


    If I were spawn trapping a team on Plaza or Rig during a strongholds match, and all the strongholds dissipated and magically became slayer, I would continue to do exactly what I was just doing and not change a thing,



    Incredible.  I've never seen someone completely deflect a question that ridiculously.  Allow me to rephrase so you actually have to answer this time.


    If I can remove all objectives within an objective match and turn it into slayer from that point and absolutely nothing changes, why are the objectives there?



    They have no value.  If I'm spawn trapping a team in the base on Eden, or in Garden on Plaza, or in BR tower on The Rig, I'm going to keep doing so whether or not the objectives move.  There's no value, the goal of that match is to control the other team so that they don't control you, NOT to control the strongholds.  Strongholds is functionally slayer in every sense if not MORE shallow. At least in Slayer teams have the ability to choose which way they want to rotate and trap the enemy team.  In strongholds there's 3 designated areas, the game says "Here, pick 2 and stare at the 3rd for the remainder of the game while they spawn".  And what's worse is that you don't even really get to choose which 2 strongholds you want to hold, because on just about every map there's a "correct" choice of pairs. Again, this demonstrates a lack of understanding of how the game-mode plays. There may be a pair of hills that are ideal, but timely rotations and knowing when to give up certain hills vs defend them is more important than holding a strict set-up like it's Lockout TS.


    When's the last time a pro team voluntarily held BR tower on Rig? Fucking never, so there's no thought going on.  It's not about what team is outplaying the other team or which team can make quick witted decisions on the fly, it's which team can perform the same exact fucking strategy better - no different than holding  Snipe Tower on Lockout every single game.  You people claim to value decision making that CE maps enforce and the flexibility in strategy they allow to actually let players make choices; yet here you are enforcing an OBJECTIVE gametype that somehow dumbs things down even more than Slayer does. Which is incredible because I didn't even think that was possible. Leading off with a blatant untruth, right on. Pro teams won't hesitate to trip-cap on any map if given the opportunity, and they also won't hesitate to give up one of the "correct" hills and take BR/Yard/Blue Bend if they don't think they will be able to successfully defend it.



    Now no matter what, because the nature of strongholds it is ALWAYS going to be more ideal to control only 2 of the 3 zones for the sake of controlling spawns.  This is because the zones are so separated and encompass an entire map with their spawn influence.  Controlling 3 zones leads to random spawns every time, and randomness is bad game design. This fails BOTH precedents I begun with as it's not even ideal for a skilled and knowledgeable team to capture 3 points, because why would they? They're going to give the other team random spawns and break the trap, it's literally a handicap to prevent triple cap. WHICH STRONGHOLDS YOU HAVE DOESN'T DETERMINE WHERE THE OTHER TEAM SPAWNS STOP SPREADING THIS

    As long as Strongholds are close enough together to players can interact between them, Strongholds will ALWAYS devolve into spawn-trapping/Slayer and nothing more. This plays into what I was saying about the stronghold themselves being completely irrelevant, the just represent general zones in the map that you need to "control" but it's truly just about slaying the other team. Once you cap them you leave, and start a spawn trap and that's it; there's no interaction from that point, no need to sit in them or pick them up or hold anything or move anywhere.  Just trap the other team like you would in Slayer.  The ONLY way this isn't true is




    1: You could create more unpredictable spawns by not tying spawns to stronghold influence and eliminating map control.  Teams would now be able to  triple cap maps and reap the rewards because spawning is already randomized and there is no longer any further downsides to triple capping.  This is a bad solution because of precedent #1. Lol


    2: You could have the strongholds positioned in a way to not encompass the entire map. So instead of dividing the map into 3 zones it would be sections closer together off-center. This would allow them to contest one another more easily and not influence spawning. This solves the issue of spawning in a different method.  We see this on Empire and it's completely.  Fucking.  ********.  The zones being that close together makes everything impossible to control or keep track of, half the map is ignored for the entirety of the match, and it's a senseless cluster fuck that takes every aspect we value about important decision making and throws it out the window. Refer to the all caps. Trip-capping doesn't create random spawns, and you're solving a non-existent problem.


    Or the best solution,


    3: You could have the strongholds remain separated so much so that they don't influence one another. This keeps spawning in tact WITHOUT randomizing it, and actually places value on controlling the stronghold zones themselves and not controlling the enemy team's spawns. Meaning if you pushed enemy team far back into BR tower on Rig, they'd simply spawn elsewhere despite the fact that you have nest and basement both capped. This requires that maps are large enough to support these deadzone spawning (which they don't). The negative effect of strongholds that aren't able to interact with one another is that you can no longer play middle man between 2 zones. You actually have to actively defend a zone and make a choice. While this solves the spawning issue, you now have divided your 4 man squad between 3 zones which is what I was getting at earlier. This literally already happens. Pretty much every high level Rig game I've ever played.




    In this theoretical strongholds map if you wanted to control 3 zones you're designating 1 man per zone with 1 roamer left over.  This means that zone control and who wins the game would come down to a series of 1v1 (or at best 2v2) battles that have absolutely nothing to do with one another and act independently.

    I don't literally think that every stronghold match devolves into 1v1 battles and I was very careful to word my posts to include "in theory" or "hypothetically" every time.  Some of you like Devaneaux have reading comprehension issues so take note of that.  But this is what it would come down to if Strongholds were to play proper and actually focus on the zones.


    Say what you will about his reading comprehension, but I don't think I've ever seen him post this many wrong assumptions about how this game functions and how it influences high level play.

    • Upvote (+1) 6

  2. In this case it's the org who has the seed, with alg as far as I know


    Yeah roster rules are kinda weird, so I'll elaborate. You only need 2 players to hold a seed, but in the event that a team splits evenly the "manager" (usually the coach or someone within the org) decides who gets the spot.


    Though I'm not sure what we'll see happen if a seed "dissolves" (for example everyone from E6 joins a higher seeded team). My best guess is that the seed would go to the "leftovers".


    I should have made this post after running some games last night but here are some random thoughts. @@GH057ayame & @@Deez



    We managed to scrim on the new settings on Monday, so I'll give my thoughts here.



    • BPR moved to replace Silenced AR on Coli would be a positive change for sure.


    • Moving the Yard BR seems unnecessary. Having a BR is a small advantage and if anything, the Cafe BR is correcting an imbalance, not creating one.
    • Wouldn't complain with moving Storm, though I think I'd rather see it moved towards the edge of the map . Give players playing sneaky from Blue to Nest something to work with and make them go out of their way to use it to defend bottom mid.


    • Don't have a problem with the new BR, would rather that be there than the grenades it is replacing.
    • Camo doesn't seem to play well on Empire SH (not sure if it's even better than SAW due to the amount of focus it draws). Would like to see Sentinel Beam tested or maybe something even less powerful than that. Maybe move combo to T2 and call it a day.

    Truth & Regret

    • Silenced AR doesn't make much sense on maps without Camo, but other than that, yeah Truth and Regret are both overwhelmingly positive changes.


    • I think The Rig is going to take a lot of time before we really figure out how the changes affect the meta. Every TS game I've played so far has played completely different than the last.
    • I will say that Scatter/Rail/Camo spawn too close to each other in SH. Maybe swap the Scatter and Needler in SH and move the Railgun down onto the OG snipe spawn.


    • Fathom definitely plays better, but still not great. I also think Camo is necessary due to how effective it is at ending standoffs. Camo/Sword perhaps?


    • Eden TS is improved, IMO. Though I think the barrel changes on snipe are a step in the wrong direction. Also I think nudging Hydra towards the window a bit would make that weapon a little less "free", but it's OK as-is.
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  4. I think the weakness of the pistol is overstated. Its weak in comparison to every other map pickup yes.  But there is also the issue where all other map pickups are just so damn easy to use.  Increase the difficultly level of most other weapons even slightly, and suddenly the pistol becomes a lot stronger.


    I look at it this way: Yes you might be right.  A buffed pistol might be better.  But we really dont know that. It could simply have the effect of making every other weapon useless (inb4 the "whats wrong with that??" arguments).  What we do know is that regardless of the starting weapon power, the rest of the sandbox is still jacked.  Auto's need a nerf and rifles need to be harder to use.  Start there then move to a more powerful starting weapon if necessary.


    If every weapon besides the pistol is OP, then maybe the pistol is the weapon that isn't balanced well. As far as making every other weapon useless, that's just a matter of magnitude. Making the pistol better doesn't have to mean 4sk as-is, it could mean 4sk with a reduction in RoF (so that it kills only slightly faster, and gets 3 kills-per-clip). Right now swapping your pistol for a rifle is rarely an interesting or difficult decision, and I think that's bad for the game.

    • Upvote (+1) 6

  5. Grenade Launcher is mad easy to use (I've heard most pros dislike it), but its being removed from both maps because there is a bug where the charge shot falls through geometry. Won't be appearing until that is fixed.


    Sword Car 1 is great and I don't mind the Plasma Pistol on Truth, and I think the empty spot thats left Top Mid would be suitable.


    I don't mind it on Truth either, but there's no real reason for it to be there. But yeah, if the consensus is that GL is too easy (who would have guessed) your layout would be the next best thing I think.

    • Upvote (+1) 4


    Winter Arena T8 Test Settings Changes



    • Plasma Caster ammo reduced by (1) clip



    • Grenade Launcher removed
    • Energy Sword Moved to Top Mid
    • Plasma Pistol added Car 1


    Super meh on this. Reduced Caster Ammo on Regret is good, but on Truth: GL top mid I liked, Sword Car 1 I liked, and Combo doesn't really need to exist on Truth (but if it must be, its old location makes the most sense to me).

    • Upvote (+1) 1
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  7. While we're talking about the magnum getting shit on by every weapon on the map, can we discuss, uh, BUFFING THE MAGNUM? Swap the garbage H5 Magnum and Sniper for functionally identical copies of their CE counterparts and the game would be way better.

    The only reason this isn't my first instinct is because someone at 343 seems to be swapping the word "stronger" with the word "easier" when they are asked to make balance changes.

    • Upvote (+1) 6

  8. But what incentive is there that tempts the winning team to lose their advantage? You are actually just describing how teams snowball. What's the point of having a 50 kill limit if we only reward the team that wins the initial push with the incentive of collapsing on spawns? All things even, the only chance the other team has is to wait for a mistake. I could see how certain pro's might like that meta, but as a spectator I sure don't want to watch it.


    I'd rather a situation where the winning team is prevented from collapsing on spawns, and the only way to do that is to give them something else to do. And while we're at it, why not give them two something elses to do? Then they have a choice to make, and that's what the game fun to play and interesting to watch.


    No one is saying to remove all the power weapons. Merely that you don't need 3-4 important pick-ups on every map. Movement, for the first time in the history of Halo games, is inherently rewarded by the flow of a Slayer game due to the ability to effectively collapse spawns, and doesn't need to be propped up with power weapons and power-ups spawning every 60 seconds. With the way H5 plays at a high level, players will be collapsing on spawners, and the difference is whether or not the winning team has Rockets and Shotgun while they do it.


    The problem isn't that there aren't enough power weapons. It's that they are placed in positions where a team doesn't have to go out of their way for them and they often last long enough that they are still in play when the next power weapon is coming up. Snowballing is snowballing whether it's CE and you are using Rockets to secure OS/Camo or it's H5 and you are collapsing on spawns.

    • Upvote (+1) 3

  9. But that is a major flaw. The respawn timer should not be that long in slayer. h5 slayer is the most snowbally shit i've seen outside of h5 warzone.


    Excessive, easy to use power-weapons and functional upgrades placed in power positions contributes just as much if not more than the spawn timers. Snowballing via cascading advantages (power weapons) or snowballing via collapse-able spawns, either way it's still snowballing. It's the fundamental flaw with Slayer as a game mode: Anything you do to encourage movement is also going to contribute to snowballing.

    • Upvote (+1) 7

  10. Agree with this. Except for limiting PWs and Power ups.


    What is going to encourage movement and conflict?


    In Slayer? the spawn system. 8 seconds is more than enough time to figure out where the other team is spawning and begin collapsing on them, maintaining a numbers advantage and racking up kills in the process. Teams that do this well enough consistently win slayers in Halo 5, and the only map this isn't entirely true on (Eden) just happens to be the one with the most power weapons.


    In OBJ, we've never really needed a ton of extra movement incentive.

  11. CC: @@Bxrz


    The Railgun and SPNKr are actually pretty interchangeable IMO. Looks like they wanted to maintain a power weapon presence on The Rig while reducing snowball potential. If you think the Railgun is more balanced, share your feedback!


    SPNKR is barely stronger than Hydra. I strongly dislike its presence on any map because its slow projectile speed makes it unworthy of a 2 minute timer in a game with H5's kill times. Would rather see GL/Sentinel/Normal Rockets/Rail/Even a damn Void's Tear

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  12. I think it is possible that 343 will remove radar from competitive settings or at least adjust it to sprint and abilities. Splitting ranked and social was first step. #iwanttobelieve


    I still feel like Spartan Ability-Radar is the worst of the 3 options. Punishing people who take advantage of all the movement options available to them goes against all the reasons I first started grinding the MLG playlist in H3.


    Well this is ganna be crazy. If Tyler really got dropped, who do you think will replace him? 


    Bubu, Eco, and Stellur would be the top 3 candidates I imagine. All on worse teams, all would be potentially the best player on a new and improved TL.

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