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Posts posted by Oby

  1. Thanks for testing, @CYRiX! The SSBM community has done similar/identical tests to those you have done a couple of years ago, and figured out a couple of other "lagless" options for converters. See a previous post I made on the issue, with links:


    On 10/4/2016 at 10:01 AM, Oby said:

    Another solution is to use an Elgao Game Capture HD or Avermedia LGP capture card, which will convert the Xbox's component (YPbPr) signal to HDMI in a practically lagless fashion. Then use any "lagless" monitor.


    That is that the Super Smash Bros Melee players are using, and that game is much more sensitive to slight lag than Halo is.



    - Original testing (w/Avermedia LGP)

    - Follow-up by the same guy, confiming, inter alia, that the Elgato card has similar performance.


    I have myself used the Elgato Game Capture HD setup on LAN, with great success. I use an original Xbox Component cable --> Elgato --> HDMI cable --> lagless BenQ monitor (the same used at MLG for fighter games a couple of years back).

  2. On 9/3/2019 at 12:25 AM, Cursed Lemon said:

    Here's the problem - no I don't. 

    I've said this before and I stand by it (think I talked to @S0UL FLAME about it). CE comes out and is the killer app for a brand new system. It's the first wildly popular game on console to use the dual analog control scheme. It basically codified several mechanics for console shooters like aim assist. It's an absolute LAN'ing dream machine in the pre-XBL age. It's also a brand new IP and it's well produced. Halo 2 rolls around, and literally creates the online console lobby/friend/matchmaking system as we know it today. It is the online console game to play. Halo 3 hits. Now we've got a map editor and a gameplay demo reviewer, which was enormous for the content creating community. We also get firefight out of ODST, which proves to be very popular. 

    Then Reach drops, and we get...a half-assed attempt at customization. Halo 4 hits and we essentially get nothing. Halo 5 is released and we get Halo's trend-chasing version of a MOBA and MTX cosmetic bullshit. 

    The original trilogy sold itself not only on its campaign and basic multiplayer structure, it also revolutionized not only the shooter experience but the basic console gaming experience as a whole.The first three titles changed the console video game landscape. The next three games didn't even come close. For Halo to regain its legendary status, it needs to reinvent the wheel in some form or another.

    How does it do that? I'm not sure. There really isn't any killer new method of experiencing FPS games that I can conceive of. 

    I'm a little late to the party, but after reading the pages after @Cursed Lemon's analysis of the novelty of the three first Halo games (quoted above), I felt I had a duty to point out a "meta-aspect" that is missing. And, when you realize this meta-aspect, I think it actually is possible to conceive of new "killer methods" of the kind @Cursed Lemonis talking about.

    The "meta-aspect" I am thinking about is the form of revolutions that H1, H2 and H3 brought to the table. While H1, H2 and H3 are quite different games when it comes to actual gameplay/sandbox, that is not what @Cursed Lemonemphasized. The revolutions he is pointing to are:

    1. Bringing the FPS to console in a way that actually works well - i.e. revolutionary mechanics, control setups, etc. that works on console (H1).
    2. Creating a multiplayer experience (parties, matchmaking, friends list and clans) that raised the bar for games (H2).
    3. Map editor, demo viewer (theater), file sharing (H3).

    I think Lemon's analysis is very accurate: it is not necessarily the gameplay of these games that were decisive in their popularity. It is the features that surround the core gameplay. Indeed, as a huge H1 fan, who finds H2 and H3 to be inferior with regard to gameplay, I would even go as far as to argue that the increased popularity of the Halo series through H2 and H3 happened despite drop in gameplay/sandbox/map quality. Put differently: the increase in well thought out features around the core gameplay experience was just as, if not more important, than the gameplay itself.

    If this analysis is correct - as I think it is, what is the implication we can draw from it?

    In my view, this demonstrates that innovation in core gameplay are not necessarily needed. Indeed, this most of us already argue for due to the fact that we like first trilogy the best among the Halo games. But the key takeaway is that there is nevertheless room for innovation by adding surrounding features. And I do not think, as @Cursed Lemon may be read as thinking, that the Halo series at its peak in surrounding features, left no room to innovate (i.e. during H3 - later games have generally cut surrounding features compared to H3).

    There are many new features that could be added, expanding on the sum of all H1 through H3 features. For example:

    • Live spectating (we have that in H5, so it would not be entirely new).
    • Full tournament integration with XBLs tournament system.
    • Proper API support for automatic score reporting, advanced stats, etc.
    • Even better web integration with the game (like we had for H2 and H3 with heat maps, good file search engines, etc - but much improved).
    • PC map editor that can make proper maps (geometry), which could then be forged on to place items etc.
    • Something like Steam Workshop.
    • Proper clan/team support, building on what worked well in H2.
    • Ladders directly integrated into the game.
    • Ability for third party communities (such as HaloNorge, the Norwegian community, which I run) to serve content directly into the game - e.g. announcements of new tournaments. This could be limited to people that are part of a "HaloNorge group" in the game for example.

    I could go on. And I guess many of you have ideas along similar lines. Such features are, in my mind, more important innovations than changing up a winning gameplay formula. Stick with the H1 (preferably), H2 (next best) or H3's (okey, I'll live) gameplay formula. But improve the features around the gameplay. Never accept fewer features than H2/H3. That, in my view, is the key to another successful Halo game.

    • Like (+1) 2
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  3. 7 hours ago, Botheredhat360 said:

    I'm in the UK and I am always connected to East US 2. Is there no West EU server or is that because of low population?

    There is, but there are so few concurrent EU players (at least in the lists i play, H2C and H1 ranked) that it is very rare to get an EU server.

    To get to play on an European server, my experience is that significantly more than 50% of the players would have to be from Europe, or further east. Actually, I only think I have gotten EU servers when playing H1 ranked if all four players were from Europe.

  4. 11 hours ago, Craneteam said:

    is this what you were looking for? about 30 min with sundance and walshy with some puckett after 

    @Craneteam Thanks for the effort, but I can't get those links to work, I'm afraid...


    EDIT: Both links are also identical. But after rewriting the URLs I was able to figure out which video they refer to:


    Still can't find any history lesson 30 minutes in, though...


    • Like (+1) 1

  5. If there's any information out there showing this to be the case, I'd be more than happy to ingest it.


    Didn't find any hard tests just now, but RTINGS.com, who does detailed input lag tests of TVs, write the following on their input lag overview page:



    You might find a bit more lag is present with analog connections, like component or composite cables. This is because the TV needs to convert the analog signal to digital before video can be displayed, and the conversion process takes time.

  6. I said "hook your Xbox up to the component on your TV". 


    You said "don't do that, component lags, check these links". 



    Ah, I thought you were doubting the Elgato + monitor setup.


    It is true that the article says nothing about Component inputs on TVs specifically. But I thought that was a well-known fact that they ofte lag, since the converters used in TVs are usually not of such high quality as those in e.g. an Elgato. And there is a difference between HDMI and Component - the latter is an analog signal and thus has to be converted before it is displayed on an LCD screen. I therefore wouldn't trust a random LCD TV if it hadn't been properly tested for input lag using component cables.


    EDIT: This isn't the first time the two of us have been discussing this, apparently: http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/14496-halo-1-play-in-480p-lagless/page-2?do=findComment&comment=846373


    I did read the article.


    1. It doesn't say a thing about component lag.


    2. EDIT: Nevermind, I missed the part where he separately hooked the audio up to a different component. However, not including this visual cue in the test is silly, it's the entire crux of the test.

    Not sure if I understood what you are saying, but it's in the video example (GIF in the article).


    If you check out the follow up, they developed an improved test, see the video linked there for a demonstration.


    Moreover, the results are not controversial or new. There are many, many people in the Smash community with a high level of technical knowledge of displays/lag/etc that have done their own tests, which confirm the results of the MIMO article. Why are you so sceptical?

  8. Sure, but most modern LCD TVs with component imputs have quite a bit of lag. The signal processing/conversion has to happen some place, and TVs generally have electronics that are not good enough.


    The Elgato setup mentioned above has been tested, and proven to have extremely low latency. Actually even better than "slow" CRTs, see the links i mentioned which contain thorough research on the subject.

  9. @@Mat Logan: you can play OG Halo on a good gaming monitor using an Elgato Game Capture HD to convert the signal from analog to HDMI. The Smash players (SSBM) are using this kind of setup even for tournaments, and it is solid. I have had a couple of LANs with one box setup with this and one CRT, and it works well.


    See here for links w/details: http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/14496-halo-1-play-in-480p-lagless/?do=findComment&comment=846050

    • Upvote (+1) 1

  10. CE enthusiasts: Is MCC CE now closer to OG? Or is it still a joke compared to the real thing?


    I'm really enjoying the 4v4 playlist, but I've never LANed the real thing so I can't tell.

    Shooting is still off/inconsistent. Especially on host, but also offhost and in matchmaking (dedicated servers, so everyone are offhost). Unless I have missed something on Discord, there hasn't been much work on netcode etc for HCE, other than some code cleanup - yet.


    Improvements are apparently planned, but 343 are (wisely) following the same path as they seem to do with all aspects of MCC now: clean up code, fix fundamental issues/design flaws, end up with an easily maintainable code, and then do more specific improvements (that do not already materialize "automatically" from the cleanup/refactoring). This takes time, which is always frustrating. But I have confidence that the end result will be better than if they were doing "bandaid" fixes on top of crap code. We saw how well the latter worked back in 2014...


    That being said, the game is now in the range of playability, at least in my view. While one can't really take it too seriously, it is a decent enough version to give me my fix. But perhaps that is due to the fact that there is not anymore a strong LAN community in my area (Oslo, Norway, Europe).

    • Upvote (+1) 4

  11. I wouldn't be so pessimistic. The MCC is probably not the game that would have bounced back immediately even if everything was 100% day one of the patch. The window for instantly grabbing a huge population closed in 2014, I think.


    Instead, I think it could be possible to see a snowball effect over time. Slowly building of population as oldtimers are lured in, and reexperience the game in a functional state. As trust is gradually built, and the word is slowly spreading, more and more players - old and new - are attracted. As long as patches, small tournaments, and the core community (us) contribute to stoke the (small) flames keeping this game alive at the moment, we could be rewarded in the longer term with a healthy population.


    In other words: I am thinking of an incremental return to fame similar to what the Super Smash Melee community managed. In fact, many of the environmental factors are stacked in our favor: we do not rely on ancient hardware, and online play is readily available. That said, the grassroots LAN community is more or less gone, and there is a lack of big tournaments (with the exception of the HWC 2on2 H3 tournament, which is a good first step).

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