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Trajan

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  1. Man I'm going to miss roybox/OG instinct but this team will be incredibly fun to watch.
  2. Cheers Ghost. I don't have my consoles any more so I can't actually check the v8 settings—been ages since I saw them in Forge. But if there are two zones on Pit, that would make weirdness even more likely since you'd have a single zone encompassing Mauler and at least part of Flag. If there are no zones and all the spawns are dynamic, the influences are calculated at each individual point and that would be nuts too (but would make sense). Interesting on the grenades/LoS. thought I remembered seeing something about this years ago, but I had it associated with Reach in my mind, especially after reading FyreWulff's article. The LoS influence must be pretty small relative to player positions and deaths though, since LoS spawns happen pretty often.
  3. Ok guys. So. Spawns in MCC Halo 3. Let me just start by saying that I agree that the spawns feel different then they did "back in the day," both playing and watching. No arguments from me there. But there are a lot of people complaining about how the spawns "feel" without doing any remotely difficult work to look into why that is. That's what I'm hoping to change here, relying on some great work that other folks have done. First, I don't believe "randomness" is the issue, and I find it pretty damn unlikely that 343i made any changes to the spawn code. My guess is that the differences are a result of two factors: Mechanically, I suspect the change from 30 fps to 60 fps has changed the rate at which some of the spawn-related calculations happen. Hard to know for sure without seeing the math. The second factor is that players are better than they were 10 years ago and play much faster, especially pros. Players are much quicker to move across the map and take advantages of openings. I think this one is actually the most important. I'll explain both. First, there's a Bungie update from '08 that lays out some pretty revealing information about the spawn system here. About halfway down the page you can see a few paragraphs that walk through the technical side of what's happening during a StrongSide spawn trap clip from that year. A few key points, but first, if you only have an intuitive sense of how H3 spawns work and you've never peaked under the hood, FyreWulff did an excellent job in this article and I'll reference his numbers as well. If that's a TLDR for you, it's important to note that player positions and deaths are the primary influences over spawns, and that line-of-site, weapon fire, and grenades don't affect spawn calculations at all. It also points out that flag position (on stand vs off/pulled) influences spawns in CTF. Regarding (1) above, Lukems mentions that one enemy player died 2-3 frames after, which does suggest that frame rate may have something to do with how the spawn calculations work (though I don't think I'd bet money on this). Again, probably not the most important factor, but it can't be ruled out. That's all I have to say about that since I don't have the math to look at and I don't want to speculate. Regarding (2), Lukems also says that "dead teammate influences have a duration of 20 seconds." Think about how long 20 seconds is in modern pro gameplay. If a blue player kills two red players at Courtyard on The Pit, that spawn now has a -500 x 2 influence for the next two spawn cycles. These influences stack with the positions of every other player still on the map. Here's another key point from FyreWulff: if the blue player walks across a red spawn, you all know that his position will have a negative influence on that spawn ("blocked spawn"). What you may not know is that this influence lasts for 7 seconds, even if that player moves out of the spawn zone. This is of course true for friendly players, which positively influence spawns, as well. Again, that stacks with everything else that's happening on the map. So if the blue player pushes through mauler spawn to grab the flag on the pit, his negative influence over the mauler spawn is still there while he's pulling the flag (also negatively influencing that spawn, incidentally). At the speed of modern pro gameplay, pros are moving from one spawn zone to another very quickly, and their influences on the opposing team are stacking just as fast—especially when there are multiplayer blue players on the red side of the map (so all 8 players are influencing 3 spawn zones, in the case of The Pit). As the influences stack, the -500 influence that an individual blue player has over a red spawn becomes a smaller and smaller proportion of the overall influence on that spawn. It is in these kinds of situations where non-intuitive spawns happen I hope it's clear from the above nuts and bolts that the spawn weight calculations can get really complex really fast in this kind of situation as kills and deaths happen and new players spawn up. The takeaway for everyone gameplay-wise is that the longer you are on your opponent's side of the map getting kills, the more uncertain things will become and the less control you will have over enemy spawns. Overslaying is a really bad idea. Think about how all these factors interact on a small map like Heretic where you can fly from one base to the other in a few seconds. It would not surprise me if you saw negative spawn weights above -2500 in some cases, which could cause players on that team to spawn on a -1800 spawn point that has an enemy player on top of it: it's a shitty spawn, but not as shitty as the other spawns available. To conclude, I would wager that if you went into forge and analyzed any situation in which pro players are shocked by a spawn and broke it down according to the above factors, you would be able to explain the spawn easily. At the speed of gameplay today it's no surprise that the spawns feel different, even though I would again bet money that the underlying math hasn't changed at all. There's nothing "broken" about it (though it's certainly valid to make the argument in reverse, which is to say that H3's spawn system is not optimal for the way competitive halo is played today). Side note, but I'm kind of surprised that pros don't spend more time in forge looking at where exactly the borders of spawn zones start and how some of these values work. Seems like they'd want every little edge they could get. EDIT: Try watching Paradise Halo's video from above in this thread keeping the things I mentioned here in mind. All of the Tox spawns (both where they do and do not spawn) are entirely predictable. Check APG's spawn and subsequent Tox spawns after Snipedown kills APG on tower, Royal 2's plat spawn a little later, and the Lethul courtyard spawn that ends LBX's spree.
  4. First Halo: Halo 1 (played the demo that came with the launch-day Xbox that my best friend got for Christmas in 2001, and fell in love immediately) Favorite Halo: Halo CE, no contest First Competitive Halo: HCE (my friends held 4v4 tournaments at every birthday) / H3 (when I really started following MLG) Least Played Halo: Halo Reach (but I still like it more than 4) Favorite Gun: CE Pistol Favorite Map: Prisoner Favorite Pro: Roybox
  5. On a completely separate note, does anyone know which pro teams are going to G4G? Haven't seen too many people talking about it other than Jimbo, and I imagine not many of the teams from SXSW are going to want to make back-to-back trips.
  6. Yeah. I knew Rec would win this tourney when they clutched the reverse sweep. Your comment also says a lot about the pace of H3 in addition to Rec's resilience. H5 was so full-tilt and snowbally that teams could capitalize off a triple kill like that pretty much indefinitely if they were skilled at keeping up the pressure and rotations (like walking a tightrope). The fast movement+spawns made it pretty much impossible for the receiving team to catch their breath and compose a response. In H3, you have plays like Lunch or Ola staying alive top gold and getting the rest of their team to spawn there before making a new push. You'd NEVER get away with that in H5, last guy is always totally fucked because the other team can fly in, kill him, and fly back to power positions before those 8-10 spawn seconds are up with very low risk. You can usually grab powerups or weapons in H5 without sacrificing map position or kills for the same reason. People complain about the shield recharge time in MLG H3 but it's also one of the factors that punishes H5-style hyper aggression in H3—the damage you take if you do shit like that is a serious liability.
  7. Not going to lie, when I saw Coliseum in the original "sneak peak" footage for Halo 5 I thought they were previewing a made-with-forge map to show what the new editor was capable of.
  8. These last few weeks have been a throwback in so many ways. I don't think anyone on earth has larger egos than mid-tier Halo 3 wannabes X ) Seriously though, I am so stoked for the Invitational and the rest of the events this season. Hopefully this is a sign of good things to come.
  9. Interesting. To me the shield animations in H3 accomplish this better than any other title--shields get brighter as they get close to breaking, then the character model have lights that get brighter as their health goes down (just remembered the old "blinking" callouts that people used before "absolute" lol). So it's sort of indirect, you can tell how weak someone is getting from the shots. I've always found hitmarkers distracting for some reason but to each their own.
  10. Nah you're fine dude, thanks for asking a question instead of flaming. I'm not "accusing" you of anything. Just asked whether online was included or not, and yes it looks like I misread Moses' tweet (my bad). Everyone just decided to fly off the rails instead of taking the time to clarify the OP as usual. Just wasn't clear to me what scope we were talking about here, especially when people implied that we were talking about all titles rather than just Halo. I think it's fine to compare between TOs in this generation of Halo (MLG hosting H5/MCC vs UGC hosting H5/MCC). Don't think it's fair to compare anyone dealing with Xbox One to TOs that hosted events on Xbox 360 though, for all the reasons discussed earlier in this thread. The lack of real LAN is straight up brutal. So compare away, I just think people jumped way too fast from wishing for a H3 throwback tournament and getting a huge one to blasting the TO. IMO don't think this event has been any more or less buggy or had any more issues than the events we've seen over the last 2-3 years, especially with how much is going on there. Everyone in attendance seems happy with how UGC has run the show, and that's a good sign for all of us.
  11. All good mate, I'm not that worried about it. Still don't think the OP comparison is good though. If we're comparing to events that are also this era on XB1 (not just Halo) then I guess it's fair. Still, people are pretty determined to dump on this event. I get that we do that on here but would be nice to see that hype for H3 carry over into support for the TOs or at least constructive criticism.
  12. ... yes, that's the point ... Or was OP referring to ALL MLG events, not just halo events?
  13. This includes online, yes? I was talking about LANs specifically and referring to Moses' tweet: <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/HaloClassic?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#HaloClassic</a> is officially the second biggest LAN in HCS history<br><br>Imagine how well we could do with a real prize pool and a better location 🤔 <a href="https://t.co/EkPxnEDv1x">pic.twitter.com/EkPxnEDv1x</a></p>&mdash; Moses FPS (@Moses_FPS) <a href="https://twitter.com/Moses_FPS/status/1083866216773632001?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 11, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
  14. Not a great comparison. Remember this is the second largest event in Halo history—89 teams. With a bracket this large there's only so much UGC can do, and when (not if) errors or issues pop up, they have huge ripple effects.
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