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Everything posted by Katastrophe

  1. Please be sure to support this discussion on /r/Halo as well! Thank you! So I want to start this off by thanking Josh Menke for his work on the system in Halo 5. About two and a half years ago, I put in some work in designing a ranking system that I wanted to see implemented, growing frustrated with the complete lack there of in Halo 4. Originally posted on The Halo Council forums back in April 2013 (the original thread is lost now), it got a ton of support. Gandhi talked about it on his live show at the time, and Josh even took time out to read over it. Eventually, I ended up remaking it on the Beyond Entertainment forums and giving it a face lift. Rather than draw from pool play elements that exist in StarCraft 2 and League of Legends, the system was entirely ELO based, featured divisions (Bronze through Onyx) and a Spartan tier that would rank the top 200 in the world. I'm very glad to see that a lot of my suggestions/hopes did make it into the final product and, from a mathematical and design view, the Halo 5 system is probably the most accurate and least susceptible to abuse since Halo 2. But it's not perfect, and neither was my original suggestion. I'm not a designer, I can't test these things, but after seeing it in action now, I realize some faults that need to be addressed in the near future to ensure an accurate and enjoyable experience for everyone, especially since all Arena playlist use this ranking system at this time. To start off, less address the root cause: placement matches. However, before we tackle this problem, I need to give a quick lesson about ELO - I swear, I'll be brief. Basically, when ELO does its math (and trust you me, the formula is no joke), it really factors in three things: Your rating, your opponent's rating, and the weighting of the match. Those first two should be self-explanatory, so let me explain the weighting aspect. ELO weighting is a number factored into the equation that defines growth rate - the larger the weighting, the more you move up/down. It's a choke on the system that allows you to say "This match means more (or less) than the others." Weighting is typically done (in chess, where ELO is most commonly used) in three tiers for new players, average players, and advanced players. New players move up and down quicker until X amount of games are played, average players are your regular games, and advanced weighting is to ensure that high level players REALLY have to work to move up or down. With that understanding, let's move forward. Placement Matches: Problem: People in placement matches are getting put into high level (Diamond and Onyx) games, and are under performing. Possible Cause #1: I see two major reasons this is happening. The first is that Halo 5 doesn't use a percentile system like League of Legends and instead uses a bell curve. This was a mistake I made when creating my version and now realize was a bad choice. What this would mean is that from Day 1, the system wants to put you in Gold/Platinum. Say you go there, you get carried. The weighting is so high for you that the game now assumes you can hang with Diamond and Onyx players, but you can't, so you lose, but you also spoil the game for those players. Possible Cause #2: The other option is that maybe there is a percentile system in place, but there is no restriction on where you can end up in placement matches. I've heard people coming out of placement matches in Onyx, which troubles me. So, how do we solve these problems? Solution: The easiest solution is to ensure that Halo 5 is using a percentile system. If it's not, I would recommend implementing this with a patch at the start of Season 2 of Arena, using the numbers from Season 1 to determine what percentile should be which by looking at the min/max ELOs. So say Norbert Nothumbs is the absolute worst player in Arena with an ELO of 200. Meanwhile, Ninja is #1 with an ELO of 2800. There's your min and max, define the percentiles from that. From then on, placement matches should not start someone at the middle but rather at the bottom and give them a large weighting so that they can move up faster if they don't deserve to be there. Perhaps keep the 10 placement matches at 2x the normal weighting, show the rank, but maintain that 2x weighting for a total of 25 games before choking it down to a normal rate of growth. Also, place a cap on the max ELO someone can get from placement matches, or anything with a higher weighting. This keeps players from going too far, too quickly, before the system can accurately pinpoint their real rank. Originally, I intended this post to cover my problems but after reviewing just this, I've determined that it's really the root cause of the issues people are having with the system: placement matches occurring at too high a level, people being placed at too high a level, etc. So to conclude this post, as I've done in the past, here is my suggestion for the Arena Ranking System, which should be implemented as early as Season 1 of The Arena. Google Doc Spreadsheet I'm a big fan of Excel lately and this was much easier to show as a spreadsheet than to format as a reddit post so sorry for me lazily sending you to another window. What this does is assume that the highest rank achieved so far would be 2800. If this isn't the case, all it is is a matter of changing the highest value at the conclusion of a season and rebuilding the ranges based on the percentages. With this spreadsheet, I change one cell and the entire chart changes to reflect it. Utilizing this distribution and method of placement achieves the following goals: 1. A better/clearer understanding of what your rank actually means. 2. Easily understood goals, especially if your actual ELO is visible on Waypoint. 3. Ensures that the integrity of upper levels of play are free of those lost in the placement system. 4. Creates linear progression rather than "10 and done" of the current system. 5. Ensures that higher level play (Diamond and above) has a higher difficulty to move up or down. Thank you! Please be sure to direct any questions, comments, or concerns to me via the Beyond Entertainment thread, comment on Reddit, or tweet me @KennGame.
  2. Literally my struggle today. Went from Plat 1 to Plat 6 solo, then started struggling, went to Plat 5 (maybe 4), called it a day. Had a game where two people on my team were in Onyx and went -13 and -10 in Coliseum Slayer. >_>
  3. Are Extermination medals still not a thing? I miss that medal so fucking much. Unrelated, but I'm starting to dislike the AR part of Arena. I hope that when official settings are released from 343, and presumably a different playlist for such settings, it's purely Magnum starts. I no "Secondary Weapon: None" isn't an option in custom games (I think that's what I was told) but hopefully they work some developer fuckery and put that in. It felt wrong watching the event today and seeing known players engage in AR spray n prays. That and it's just a headache sometimes. That said, this new radar is pointless. I'd rather them just remove it then the 18m. I feel like regular Halo kids are gonna use it as a crutch and get punished for thinking it shows anything except someone on top of you. Communication is so much more necessary than in Halo 3 or Reach. Still enjoying the game though. Solo legendary campaign can blow me though. The AI when you get downed is so dumb.
  4. This is actually a horrible idea. If you play nothing but people who's ELO is jumping all over the place, while your ELO is all over the place, your placement would be so far off the mark. That, and eventually it'll take people absurd amounts of time to find games as more and more people leave placement matches. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ranking system. If you knew how ELO worked, you would know it's working fine. It's not even been a week yet, and people are expecting pinpoint precision on their rank. That's just not how the system works.
  5. For what I assume is a forge map, I like it. Had a couple games that slowed to a pace similar to Guardian TS from Halo 3, but not AS slow. Was an enjoyable moment though, since Halo 4 never had that kind of pace for me.
  6. Just cause I mentioned this elsewhere, it'd be nice if the placement matches had a restriction on how far you can go. Example being that the highest you can get from placement matches is like, Platinum 1, and you will never play a placement match with anyone from Platinum 2 or higher. Since the system is just throwing people around to find where their ELO belongs, it's unfair to essentially throw them into a Diamond level game when maybe they're actually Gold 3 and the system is just testing the waters.
  7. Resident math/ranking system nerd, reporting in. So Halo 2 had a great ranking system, no doubt, but it wasn't as complex or impressive as people seem to think. For a full read, this is all you need. Before reading however, you'll see the term "Experience" thrown around and it's bullshit. That experience is just a placeholder for "ELO rating", because Halo 2 used a simple ELO formula to determine how people gained and lost "experience" (ratings). If you scroll through that post, you'll eventually find a table that lists levels, min XP, and max XP. This says that a player with 6800 XP (an ELO rating of 6800, essentially) is a level 36 because it falls between the range of 6750 and 6999. All this means is that Halo 2 was an ELO system that used 50 divisions - it's not that amazing/groundbreaking. Just really, really segmented. I won't talk much about it but Halo 3 threw ELO out of the window and started to factor in teammates more than just win/lose. Boosting existed because the system would think you were carrying a horrible person, but in reality they were great but had an account with a shitty win/lose record. The more games you played at your level, the harder it was to move up/down because the game figured you were placed accurately as your win/lose comes closer to 50%. That's the goal of any ranking system - to narrow your win/lose to 50%. Halo 5 is basically Halo 2's ranking system with 30 larger divisions (Bronze 1 to Diamond 6) and then Onyx, which shows your actual number, and then Champion which can technically be considered outside the spectrum of the divisions. While your division at or below Diamond 6 is far more broad than your Halo 2 rating would have been, it's no less accurate. But really, Onyx and Champion ratings are the most accurate rating you'll have in any Halo ranking system. To my previous example, if you had 6800 XP in Halo 2, you were shown as 36. That's great but if I had 6900 in Halo 2, I was also a 36 but technically better than you by a sizable margin. tl;dr - Halo 5 ranking at Diamond 6 and lower are not as precise as Halo 2's 1-50 system, but Onyx+ is the most accurate rating a Halo ranking system has ever had, visible to the players. Also, the reason people keep getting placement people in their games is because those first 10 games, your ELO is all over the place as it tries to narrow you down. I would like to see them patch this by keeping placement matches out of at least Diamond and higher level gameplay, as in no one should ever come out of placement any higher than Platinum 6. But for the record,this narrowing down will continue well into Season 1 and after placement matches are over. It's why everyone is able to rank up/down so quickly right now. Slowly the system will tighten up on where you really stand. Edit: There's also really no excuse for not having To3 and To4 party restrictions. Also, seasonal reset is kinda... eh, but it's there to encourage people to come back. If done properly, you play 1-10 games and just get your rank back. Your ELO should never actually reset. Ditto to all this, but I hate TWC. My WiFi once dropped to 10% of my wired speed. When I called, they told me that speed decreases can be expected over WiFi, even up to a 90% decrease. Trying to switch to Uverse cause it's fuck all else out in Brunswick.
  8. Like in Halo 4, I plan to make call out videos as early as next weekend when I get paid. Gotta buy a new capture card first. Ideally, yes. Joshua Menke's description of the ranking system is surprisingly identical to the one I suggested years ago on this forum, which he tweeted to me he read/approved of. However, I wouldn't expect it to ever have this clean of a bell curve, and not even remotely close until after a few seasons. So many people are flying up and down ranks as the system tries to identify them accurately right now. Like I win one game in Arena and I'm half way to the next rank. But with the math behind the system, that's to be expected.
  9. As much as I say it's good, I voted for the "few weeks" option. Like others have said, Halo 5 is the first 343 Halo game that hasn't made me angry game after game due to shit mechanics like bloom in Reach or sprint in Halo 4. It's not without its flaws but it's a huge step in the right direction from what Halo 4 was. But as Lemon said, is getting out of the bottom of the barrel really worth commending? The biggest take away is that it's also the first Halo since H3 where the competitive settings and out-of-box settings can be so similar and the game is still enjoyable and has a skill gap, primarily in 4v4 and less so in 1v1 (my opinion), but that seems to be the direction 343 has been going. The success of competitive Halo 5 is really going to depend on the community and developer's ability to listen to one another and compromise. Hopefully what we have no is a very basic version of Arena and the future will show more playlists, community maps, etc.
  10. #feelsgoodman I really gotta get my friends list fixed.
  11. I've always played on 2 Sens since Halo 3... I started up H5 at the default 3 and after one game said "no, too squirrelly" and went back to 2. I guess I'm just weird. "/
  12. The cable from my A40s (controller to mix amp) is torn. Checked the site last night and saw the original cable I had, the one with the box to mute it. I'd post a link but I'm too lazy on my phone. Also saw something else, the AG1 cable or something, that says for Xbox One. Is the original cable no longer usable? Do I need to order the AG1? Thank you. <3
  13. Sending from my phone so I apologize in advance for any typos or shit. First of all, I vaguely remember stating this a long time ago but I'll never disagree with you man. It'd be so easy for 343, or any studio, to take the success of Halo 1-3 (campaign and multiplayer) and just replicate it. Guaranteed best seller. Anything with the Halo name is guaranteed to sell well, honestly. But they've shown since Reach that that's not what they want to do - they'd rather reinvent the wheel which boggles my mind but whatever. The whole point I'm making is that strictly speaking like, Day 3 out of the box Halo 5 is miles and miles better than Halo 4 was at that point in time, when all we had was custom load outs, a 5SK BR, shit disc maps that were borderline unplayable for anything smaller than 5v5... My hope is that those in charge of the HCS stuff will listen to the community, to some extent. I would love it if, in the future, they give us a list of "non-negotiables" so we can focus on experimenting with other shit. I also don't mind the 3.5 game types (fuck Breakout). Makes the game streamlined. Maybe when they release Forge, or in the future, they'll reintroduce things like Oddball (no throw please), KotH, etc. It makes sense to me to keep things minimal for now to narrow the initial feedback for the inevitable 1.1 patch. Hopefully they'll widen the net before Christmas a bit. Provided I'm not in a honeymoon phase with the game, yeah. I'm going to be looking into an Elgato next weekend, start streaming since I built a new PC last year. If I like this game as much as I think I do, I have a ton of plans/ideas.
  14. Since I could give less of a fuck about Warzone, I'm selling everything Warzone related I get and buy the gold ones. The only difference I see in the description is Silver gives Common to Rare, Gold gives Uncommon to Legendary. So if you have no interest in the armors labelled as Legendary, then it's much more cost effective to buy Silvers. Also, just from the description, I'd wager that if you maxed out silvers (as in, you have all Common to Rare unlocks), Gold would only give you Legendarys. But that's just based on my interpretation of the description. Edit: That said though, since I have a small collection of strategy guides, I got the Halo 5 one and there's a FUCK TON of armor in this game. But it feels like it's effectiveness at ranges drops way faster than the ARs.
  15. I'm sure, but it's primarily what I'm seeing in this thread unless I just missed earlier discussions (totally possible, since I only started skimming at launch day). I'm just saying, if you're looking strictly Halo 4 to Halo 5, not like Halo 2 to Halo 5, it's a huge improvement. I've just never been the type of person to say like, Halo:CE is what all Halo's should be. I'm willing to give them this new sprint, thrusters, ground pound, etc. since they don't completely ruin the game the way things like Jetpack did. Actually, since I have your attention and I know you'll have an answer for me... kill time to the 5sk magnum - how's it stack compared to BR kill times in the past? I've been playing Destiny for so long that I just don't remember and it's been bother me this whole time. I can echo this. I hope that for the Team Arena playlist, they switch to Magnum/SMG instead of AR/Magnum.
  16. From a purely competitive aspect, I'm not gonna disagree. I meant that Halo 3 was simply successful. The gap between competitive settings and out-of-the-box settings was, what, a 10% increase to damage, movement, and turn of radar. The gap between Reach and H4 on the other hand was just an entirely different game. I don't see (or at least, hope I don't see) the community attempt to alter much about the game's mechanics. Edit: I may be wrong but I attribute a lot of the success H3 had in 2008/09 (and failure with Reach and H4) with the fact that MLG settings were so recognizable to the base game that it attracted new people to come and play, or watch.
  17. tl;dr - Haven't touched Halo in ~2 years. Halo 5 is easily the best Halo since Halo 3, out of the box. I haven't posted in here like, two years. I utterly hated Halo 4 multiplayer and when the multiplayer trailer came out for Halo 5 my first thoughts were "Yeah, it's dead" and was content to play Destiny on PS4 for the next ten years because fuck it. Out of curiosity, I watched Ninja stream the early access. I looked for all the things I had hated in Halo 4 and found... none of them. There were no jetpacks to ruin map movement/control. Camo was a power up. Power weapons were on timers again. The maps actually looked like multiplayer maps and were actually a decent 4v4 size. Then Ninja went on about how he only hyped up Halo 4 to further his career but after that, was strictly honest about the state of the game. Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but then he said "Halo 5 is the best of all the Halos... and that's a bold fucking statement." I kept watching him, Walshy, everyone. I wanted to find something to hate about this game so I could say "Yep, ruined" and return to Destiny with a clear head and the chip on my shoulder that Halo: Reach started. I must have watched Ninja's stream a minimum of 5 hours a day and by the time launch came around, I was feeling pretty confident in my decision of Halo 5. I traded in my PS4, all my games, and got the Halo 5 console/game. These past two days have been sleep, Halo 5, work, repeat and I regret nothing. I skimmed through the thread thinking that surely the wiser minds of the Halo community were tearing this game apart - I was engrossed in a honeymoon stage, surely, and reading the typical long winded posts of "why the fuck don't you understand why this is bad?" would ground me. Instead I'm reading about people unhappy with clambering and how the aim "feels funny". For anyone reading this who hasn't bought the game, who came here looking for an opinion of multiplayer before making the purchase... if that's the most this community is upset with - additional animations and an unfamiliar aim control - then the decision to play this game should be clear.
  18. It did a good job of saying like "This is why Halo being a competitive title literally hurts no one, but helps a good portion of the fanbase". And that's really the point we've been driving home which is... I don't remember who said it (maybe Lemon?) but I remember reading something about how a competitive game can be both fun and balanced, but an uncompetitive game can't be balanced or something. Basically, building a game with at least a core that's centered around eSports will literally do nothing negative for your game. If you don't build your multiplayer for eSports, you're missing a HUGE market - that's just a fact. Also, I don't think any console eSport will ever competed with a PC eSport. How many people own a computer capable of playing League vs a console capable of playing Halo 5? Console eSports is a very, very small portion of eSports. But fortunately for us, it's also pretty much just Call of Duty when it comes to FPS titles. In terms of popularity and success, it's literally us vs them. Not to say we can't support each other like UMG tried.
  19. I love this article so much. Here's to hoping the hype is real this time 'round.
  20. So apparently since I deleted Halo 4 off my HDD, I can no longer use the War Games pass to download the maps...? Cool.
  21. If there's a tournament with decent money on the table, or a willing sponsor, I would be shocked if Ogre 1, Ogre 2, Walshy, and StrongSide didn't come back for just one tournament. I've never met them personally, but they strike me as the type to enjoy a little nostalgia for the fans.
  22. All three of the above posts make great points. Quoting this because I'm lazy and would like a link to this video please.
  23. This is a great example. I don't doubt that if, worst case scenario, Halo 5 is a flop that the community will support Halo 2 HD. Zero doubt. However, that's going to significantly cripple how big it gets as an eSport, in all reality. Which is a shame, really. But who knows. Honestly, I feel that if MLG (or an equally big name) were to pick up Halo 2 HD and promote it as if it was the current Halo title, even without 343 support, it could definitely see some success. But dev money will be in the newest thing, and that support would be a huge advantage.
  24. Ah. Sounds like that'd be a real pain in the ass for the host of the venue though.
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