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LimeSoda

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Posts posted by LimeSoda


  1. Are any Japanese Kirbys coming? That's the only thing stopping me from putting Boom at #1.

     

    I think it'll be hard for Isai to get top 5 if the bracket isn't favorable.

     

    Wario

    Boom

    Tacos

    Mariguas

    Dexter (maybe he won't play well due to being inactive)

     

    All these players will be favorites in the matchup IMO.

     

    Kero (struggled vs Taco's DK tho)

    Wizzrobe (only Yoshi)

    LD (beat Dexter)

     

    These guys could do it, too.


  2. So Optic Halo went to "Party" rather than grind Halo only to go out R1 of this MLG 1K event.

     

    ^ FIS said it best. Lolz 

     

    What a Joke. 

    #content tho

     

    Nah but to be fair his Internet wasn't working, but who knows how fixable it was.

     

    A bit OT here: overall, I continually feel more and more silly for using Maniac's content as an example for a post I did a couple weeks ago on how to make Halo content. I simply can't blame the man when a Halo competitive video would get much less traction, though. His fan base is not really Halo fans... and the Halo fans that are on YouTube are mostly interested in lore. Trying to monetize off of solely competitive Halo content is incredibly challenging, hence why pros quit so often (albeit prematurely in my opinion--also, apologies if everyone is sick as fuck of talking about Halo pros and content). 


  3. I wouldn't say these guys are on the same level of witch hunting as Billy and Brad. Why settle for less than perfect?

    Well Benson was on the witch hunt for  :beyond: ... it's only fair  :kappa: .

    Nah but really, my constructive criticism for Benson--and I haven't watched the VOD yet keep in mind--but it's that he screams at events to try and get people hyped and it just doesn't work. He continually gets feedback after every CoD event to stop screaming, but he just keeps on doing it. I dunno, maybe that level of passion won't be reached because this will be his "secondary" game, but not listening to feedback is a worry. I hope he succeeds, though. 

    • Upvote (+1) 1

  4. He's not gonna win but the gfys are gonna be out of this world. I'm pumped

    DK is certainly an amazing character to watch. But I would just rather see a high tier, at least for the most competitive matches, so we can truly analyze where everyone stands in the world. Also, it's just not as hype having only a battle of Boom, Wario, and if a Japanese Kirby comes for 1st, while if Isai was a high tier he could be added to that.

     

    OT: we joined this site the same date ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) <--Courtesy of Pidge, she's gonna send me some of that dope ass stock art cause I donated an additional $10 to the international player fund. 3k raised holy shit. Also, I dunno if you caught Hitstun 3 yesterday but it was a really enjoyable event. Some good matches and big upsets--won't spoil if you want to watch the VOD.

    is there gunna be 64 doubles?

    Yeah, people are already registered. Isai said he wants to team with an international player a while back. 


  5. *Somewhat* hilarious/ironic that members of the forum will bash on Maniac/OpTiC for putting in a lot of time grinding YouTube and not playing the game enough... and then criticize Naded for grinding the game and chiding him for not having more work ethic on YouTube :lxthul:

    I kind of agree, but Maniac's content is mostly not Halo related, where Naded's is. We want Halo to grow ultimately. I support both, though.

    • Upvote (+1) 1

  6. I don't even play/follow CoD but I know Champs, X-Games and MLG World Finals all hit 100k+ on twitch. CoD had a decent year it is just their community likes to moan so it looks like they're getting shit on all the time.

     

    Also of course Smash is going to have a perceived active 'in-person' player base because that's predominantly how the game is played.

    None of those events were even streamed on Twitch. But Champs hit 167k plus change, X-Games 100k, can't find World Finals.

     

    And it's not just perceived, there's more competitive players overall.


  7. I think you are starting confuse active communities and esports.

     

    Question - which is the biggest "esport". Call of Duty, no question. Its the game and company making active strides to do so, has much more structure, more constant views on Twitch/MLG (pro streams, online events, online tournaments, lan tournaments, the cod world league).

     

    Their esports department is now installed into Activision, the cogs are turning and the game has already starting to progress at a very fast rate. You are vastly underrating what a team of profefssional, who's job is to literally do esports, will do for the game.

     

    In 2016 you will have the world league/cup have 25 weeks of content at least. Throw in events from organisations (much more exposure than your local Smash events outside of the big 3/4/5) such as MLG/ESL/UMG/EGL/Gfinity/ESWC, and suddenly COD is looking very profitable for sponsors to come in. Big orgs come in, they invest into promoting these teams and brands, which snowballs into viewership across multiple platforms). 

     

    What does Nintendo do to help? Nothing.

     

    You cant just say "they have active scenes all over the world" then think thats your point made. I already called you out for saying Call of Duty was tiny in EU esports wise, dont need to do it again. In japan they dont play Melee, and esports in general is not really a thing embedded into Japanese culture (though League of Legends is starting to make some big moves with the younger generation there). 

     

    Its an odd comparison to make because you can argue that Smash doesnt want to be an esport anyways. Theres not a huge room for it to grow since orgs are keen to invest into it as much because they get a lot less back. That puts it on the burden of the TO's themselves, and they will be more interested in keeping their local community happy rather than brand out into the more corporate based nature of esports (which is why you see Smash fans kinda oppose MLG  a lot) Yes, some Smash events get huge numbers, but those are small peaks over the year. 

     

    Because of the future potential of COD, that by proxy, means the bigger esport NOW is Call of Duty. Id have COD/LoL/Dota/SC/CS/Hearthstone all above Smash (and Smash had bigger peak audience than three of those in 2015). Hell, Smash prob isint the biggest fighting game if you keep referring to player participation.

     

     

     

     

    We may just have to agree to disagree... we're running circles here.

     

    You claim "there's much more structure" I say I agree, but it's not enough to warrant it bigger. You claim "there's more constant viewers" I claim 2015 AW peaked at 75k views at events while Smash was at or over 100k several times, and Smash has everything you listed except the CoD World League. The peaks of Smash were definitely bigger as you said, but it's silly to compare a CoD National to a non Smash national, which is why I brought up the peaks--in CoD, there aren't regular LANs that have 2 top teams go, where as there are often Smash events with only 2 top players in attendance or less.

     

    I already gave my point on Activision's involvement: it will certainly help but the premise under debate has been right now, not speculating into the future which one will be bigger. 

     

    You're right, Nintendo doesn't do jack shit besides meaninglessly sponsoring a few tournaments. If they would be more involved, of course the scene would be bigger, but their lack of involvement doesn't mean it's a smaller eSport inherently. 

     

    Me saying there's active Melee scenes all over the world was the response to your claim that competitive CoD has a bigger International presence (it doesn't). Once again, EU relevance? I may have underestimated their scene in CoD but it's still NA dominated, what is your point? Also, they most definitely play Smash in Japan, I'm not an expert on Melee but AMSA has gotten top 8 in the U.S. before from Japan and specifically in Smash 64 Japan's the strongest region. It may not be the largest Melee scene, but it's certainly larger than the 0 comp CoD scene there. 

     

    I'm not confusing what an eSport is/player participation, I'm just putting a lot of weight on player participation. What makes an eSport bigger to me, is mostly the community, not how many orgs are involved or how much money there is to be made--you act is if you need corporate involvement to be an eSport--no, any competitive video game is an eSport--the claim "Smash doesn't want to be an eSport" doesn't even make sense to me--as long as it's being played competitively, it is. If there are more people playing one game competitively than another, I think it is most likely a bigger eSport, and that is the case with Smash. 

    • Upvote (+1) 1

  8. If people are investing then the scene will grow. People are investing for a reason. If Smash was the bigger esport, 

     

    I dont get where the aspiring competitive player number is coming from. Yes Smash has many in person competitiors, COD has much much more online based. Not even close, and prominent in much more regions. Hell, Smash has way more in person competitors than LoL/Dota/CS etc.

     

    Yes, there are a lot of people invested in Smash in the comp scene, but that doesnt make it bigger. And I think you are looking at NA only, as demonstrated by the belief that COD is small in EU.

     

    I would say the viewership is already bigger. Smash has your big peaks, but COD has pro streams, online tournies, multiple LAN events in multiple regions most weekends, to me its not even close.

     

    Activision has an esports department. That structure alone makes it the biggest esport right now, and in the future.

    It can be the bigger eSport and yet be seen as not as profitable. 

     

    Not sure how you could claim CoD, competitively, is more prominent internationally. Melee has active scenes all over the world, where as in CoD there are literally 2--NA and EU, with AU being barely worth noting. I'm getting the aspiring competitive players numbers just from being invested in both scenes. In Melee, there are lists of active players in each state that are in the hundreds. It is much harder to conclude the number of aspiring competitive CoD players due to them mostly being online, but I think an educated analysis leads to them not even being close.

     

    As far as this EU discussion goes, NA takes the cake in both scenes so not sure what the point is here. Even if EU CoD is bigger than EU Smash, Smash still has scenes in Japan, Brazil, etc. 

     

    You're going to have to cite some sources of 2015 CoD viewership to convince me otherwise here. I already cited some for Smash, and it's not like they don't have streams, online tournies (not prominent) and LAN events (Smash has a lot more of these in more regions--definitely shouldn't be a point in favor of CoD). In 2015 AW the top pros only had a couple thousand views on MLG.TV, comparable to some top Smashers would get on a good day.

     

    This is fine and dandy and will certainly help contribute to growth but it's not the biggest esport (or bigger than Smash) right now as a result. A non dev support game can be a bigger eSport; why would dev support make it inherently bigger? Certainly it will help but it's not an auto win. 

    • Upvote (+1) 1

  9. And all the points above is why COD is the bigger esport, and the potential to be much much bigger.

     

    Yes, Smash has more tournies, but thats because its easier to run, and thats what the community was founded on, whereas COD was very much online because of the lack of LAN, so online tournies for COD are a huge thing, and now LAN participation is starting to pick up too. The playerbase of online players dwarfs smash. Yes its an unfair comparison, but that allows much more potentinal to convert the online warriors into regular participants in esports/lan events.

     

    Yes, COD is becoming more structured, another reason why its the bigger esport.

     

    Yes the competition isint as good as NA but they now have the tools to close the gap between them and EU (same applies to ANZ). Viewer ship for those events is still bigger than Smash EU events.

     

    Yes, the casual audience is much more prominent than competitive in COD. But with a large player base and a much bigger  focus on competitive play, you then have a much higher chance to convert those into comp. players.

     

    The most important thing is that Call of Duty and its developer is actively making the right steps to becoming an esport. Nintendo doesnt seem to care too much, and a good chunk of the FGC is quite hesitant to the esports movement and prefer its grassroots community. Its just a lot more lucrative to invest in Call of Duty, and as more sponsors come in, the scene will grow further.

     

    If I gave you a wedge of cash/let you start an org, do you go COD or Smash?

    I agree it's probably more promising for CoD in the future (rapidly approaching), but my debate was under what is currently bigger and the way I did so was looking back at the year of 2015 (impossible to compare in real time), and seeing how the 2 compared. When CoD's bigger, I'll admit it but in my opinion right now it is not, simply because the viewership is not there, the amount of aspiring competitive players is a fraction of that compared to Smash, and while it is structured with more money Smash still has more members invested in the competitive scene, effectively making it a bigger esport. I don't think the monetary gain of investing in CoD over Smash validates it being bigger, just a better investment. 


  10. 2015 certainly wasnt great for COD for the game itself and the stream platform, neither of which exist now. Either way they still had weekly content that were notable. Smash's highs were higher, but COD had way more events that broke 50k ish as well as being more prominent during the week thanks to it being more accessible online content wise.

     

    Completely disagree with COD being small in EU. Its not NA quality wise but the numbers are there for sure. Now it has an EU weekly league too, helping improve the competition and allows sponsors and orgs a safer investment. Call of Duty is a worldwide juggernaut.

    The problem is Smash had a lot more tornys. Where as for every CoD event all top teams attended, and this is not the case for Smash. For compareable events, Smash outperformed viewership wise IMO. Apex was like 120k, EVO 200k, and TBH5 75k. I don't think CoD peaked over 75k in all of 2015 besides CoD Champs (165k + change). Regarding weekly content, it's not like Smash didn't have it, just nothing too organized like League Matches. But even then what is content if people aren't watching--MLG.tv numbers were really declining.

     

    As far as EU, I agree they've come a ways like the Paris crowd is the best out of anywhere and Gotaga is popular, but their players still suck compared to NA like you said and the viewership isn't there without NA presence. Though I guess you could say the same for Smash. It's a world wide juggernaut for casual play but not competitively, where there are prominent Smash scenes all over, but perhaps I'm putting too much emphasis into talent. I will admit I am no expert of EU CoD.

    • Upvote (+1) 1

  11. What would you claim for 2015, though? In the future I agree it's looking promising for CoD.

     

    And I'd disagree with bigger worldwide appeal, Smash easily is more popular internationally. CoD's main problem is that it's so NA dominated with EU being small, and Asia non existant.

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  12. I don't even pay attention to Halo esports much so you can tell my level of knowledge of COD esports is 0. Just from what I've seen Melee's got a bigger "community" and its more grassroots, and I've seen new players come in despite its age. Not sure if I'm right though

    I just think nearly 4k entrants for 2 smash games combined at 1 torny isn't compareable to 500 CoD players at a 128 team UMG. AW CoD National got 75k views, Melee 120k at Apex, 200k at EVO. Thousands of more aspiring competitive players, too. Yeah CoD has more money in the scene cause of a 1 million dollar event and MLG had a 250k one too but people>money. Dota's not bigger than LoL because of their prize pool. Got some guy tryna argue that, too.

     

    OT the Packers just clutched the fuck up letss gooo


  13. No game since CE has had a better starting weapon with vanilla settings.

     

    H2 - SMG

    H3 - AR

    HR - DMR

    H4 - FUCKING ANYTHING APPARENTLY

    H5 - GARBAGE PISTOL

     

    I'll take the CEA pistol thanks.

    What makes Reach's starting weapon a DMR but H3's an AR when they both had AR starts, if I'm not mistaken, at the same frequency (I guess there was an ability to vote but I got ARs a ton)?


  14. I'm still shocked by this when Infection easily got the most love in Halo 4 with it's own Infected Spartan models and a re-skinned Energy Sword. Now it's not even in Halo 5 and 343 has yet to bring it up.

    Those are 2 good additions, and I'm baffled by it not being in H5 too, but I don't think it got the most love--iirc, people thought it was a massive downgrade compared to Reach/3's.


  15. Regarding content with the pros (sorry if you're sick about it): I don't think anyone is going to argue it won't at least help the scene. But if content creation isn't for you, then that's alright--end of story. I do think pros have ended their YouTube grind prematurely in a lot of cases, but I also think wanting to succeed in growing competitive Halo through YouTube is a big challenge, because out of all the genres of videos you can post, they tend to do poorly viewership wise. Perhaps this is just the OpTic fanbase, but Maniac and Flamesword's Halo videos do not do as good.as their other videos, even ones without name drop titles (Nadeshot, Scump, etc.). However, Ninja's 1v1s vs the Sudds most definitely beat out his vlogs--though those hilarious 1v1s aren't what most Halo pros have produced--rather just dull scrims VoD.

     

    Despite this, I still obviously advocate the production of Halo videos. Here are some quick tips for pros, or anyone really, looking to grow their channel:

     

     

    Guide to YouTube monetization:

     

    1.) Visuals, Titles and Thumbnails

     

    The title and thumbnail of a video is almost just as important as the content within, for if it's not pleasing enough, people won't be enticed to click on it. For example, "Stream Highlights 3" is not an acceptable title. Stating factual information is an improvement, such as "Warlord Bomb vs Denial", but even then it's not good enough, in my opinion. While cheesey, the most successful titles are generally ALL CAPS (sad, I know) and are out of the box. I don't advocate click-bait, but a little spice, is all. Maniac does a good job of this here:

     

     

     

     

    This video is also a good example in that it uses a thumbnail (albeit the puckered lips are dumb). Technically all videos have thumbnails, but what I mean is that the still picture on a video before clicked on is custom made, not pre-made by YouTube. If you're not skilled in any photo production software, this task can be outsourced to a community member, if you have a big enough following.

     

    2.) The little things

     

    In my opinion, almost all videos should have a consistent opening hook. While again cheesey, it creates a certain vibe and drills your name into the audience's head. Nadeshot's is "YouTube, how the fudge ya doing", but it doesn't have to be that level of cheese--Flamesword's is, "what's up guys, it's OpTic Flamesword". Additionally, content just has to be more imaginative. It is impossible to monetize off of solely competitive scrims alone. Here are some ideas off the top: Campaign with a Halo Pro, Road to Champion, Tips videos, IRL VLOGS, Day in the lifes, collab with other YTers that already have a popular YouTube presence (perhaps through the same org), and more. Having a personality is also most obviously key, and it's why YT is not for everyone, but these were just some quick tips I noticed a lot of pros weren't doing.

     

     

     

     

    • Upvote (+1) 2

  16.  

     

     

     

     

    Did they not keep it because a percentage of the community was for trying it? then it got to a point of no return because they didn't want to drastically change the settings half way through the season, In the end we got one of the best settings halo has had. That aside, we had 3 previous halo games which IMO had the best settings they could have used and I still stand by what I originally said.

     

    Yeah to be honest a lot of people were pushing to try it, and eventually learned that was a bad choice. But should have most definitely changed it sooner.

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