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Teapot

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Posts posted by Teapot


  1. I don’t like that spawn system of spawn near your teammate continuously(there’s a reason they got rid of it because of the constant spawn killing. I learned how it worked the first moments I played doubles on the game

    The whole concept of that system in 2v2's is that the alive teammate can dictate a safe or random spawn for his dead partner. The goal here is to position yourself to give him the best spawn possible. When you aren't playing with this aspect in mind than your teammate gets spawn killed constantly. If you are understanding the system yet are constantly spawn killed than you only know of ifs existence and not how to apply it. I'm always willing to debate halo mechanics and why I feel they're good or bad but you seem like you already are biased to begin with. You even claim that no spread edition is going to nullify all the weapons in the game when we've been playing that mode for months now and it's still not true.

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  2. Definitely surprised reading these opinions and the logic behind them. Pretty eye-opening to be honest lol. We have a ton of games in our series that have continued to make changes with each iteration. Some improved in the next game and some things were made worse. If you think there's no possible way to at least "improve" on these areas rather than remove them all together than I agree with Nick and others, you are playing the wrong game.

    • Upvote (+1) 5

  3. Oh, yeah, I should've prefaced it with "balance it to power weapons like the sniper". Descoping should be an exclusive thing to stuff like that. Or tracking weapons like the Hydra.

     

    That's basically been my point in this, lol. And that's the thing, if you reduce melee power, what's the point of having melee even. You're basically just being pushed to fire your gun which is probably more powerful at that point, making melee useless and just there to be there. Unless you're doing some creation style fine tuning. The concept of quickening killtime would be fine if melee didn't have a long animation that takes up enough space for someone to fire their gun and kill you already in the optimal Halo. Would you buff melee speed? If so, why not just spam melee. But it just seems like an oddly specific amount of tuning would go into making melee at least not mindlessly stupid. I don't mind keeping backsmacks for the sake of a sneaky play, whatever that means given you'll be effectively called out in any remotely competitive environment and people will see you, nonetheless, but eh. The punishment factor's there, sure, though.

     

    I don't need to die to them over and over again for there to be an issue. Hell, simply performing the act makes me remember there is an issue.

     

    And you entirely misrepresent my argument regarding OS and the comparison to Quinn. My argument wasn't on the predictive or random nature of obtaining the powerup. It was how the powerup is a crutch, even for players who already suck. Yes, it's a conscious decision to grab it, and grabbing it can have stupid effects on the game. Also, it was on how it wasn't something I could necessarily improve on given how situational grabbing dumb shit like that can be. Simply spawning can fuck me out of that opportunity when I have no control over it. It not being in my control 24/7 doesn't make it random necessarily because of factors like OS respawn time and prediction for that, but getting killed by it isn't always the result of a lack of skill but circumstance, sometimes, which is my issue. When I dick on some kid and then he just ends up picking up OS and beating me in battles of attrition only because of said powerup, then I have an issue with how the powerup works at a base. Not the fact people pick things up, which I'm fine with.

    It's possible I'm misrepresenting your argument but I still see there's a similarity there. In your situation, the OS is a crutch and in Quinn's situation the rockets are being used as a crutch. His solution was to remove the ability to drop the flag all together. I feel removing OS all together is a similar comparison.

     

    I mean I get it, there's plenty of times where your teammates are playing terrible. No map control, no communication, no going for power ups. I won't deny that it sucks or is frustrating but it's a team game and it's possible. I'd much rather keep a lot of these core concepts that work at a team level rather than throw them out completely because as an individual you are running into issues. At the very least attempt to see if there's a better way to implement the mechanics instead of ommitting them all together.

     

    There's more to my opinion on melee/nades but I'm out to eat now. Could post more later but definitely think it's better to keep them in and work on them then omit them entirely.

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  4. lmao. I'm not oblivious to it. I just don't think it's particularly meaningful nuance that adds real depth to the game. Sorry that I don't recall the exact damage difference between a stationary and "momentum" melee, as I am not a competitive Seee Eeee aficionado of your caliber (and, well, I actually don't care).

     

    More to how to play the game at a high level and not the fact that concepts exist. Ninja for example apparently knows of "concepts" but writes off the game completely citing how everything is a 3 shot and nades are nukes. Valid complaints from someone who cited his experience as "used to play against my brother and he would come into the room and punch me every time I 3 shotted him.

     

    There are people that play a lot of CE whether it was back in the day or online on MCC and when we LAN with them, they can name randoms and know how to quick camo but when it comes to the gameplay itself they aren't doing them correctly or able to apply their knowledge.

     

    Whats crazy about CE is I'm nowhere near the top. You don't need to be an "aficionado" exactly but I guess it would help put some value behind the discussions.

     

    For example, I used to play a tiny bit of CS back in the day when I had a PC. A lot of my friends from town played and there were players that graduated 5-6 years ahead of us that were really good. I forget if they were pro but I remember they played in a league we couldn't join. My one friend still plays with them and is constantly competing but back in the day, he taught me a lot. He showed me nade tricks, strats for specific rounds and how to fire properly along with sending me a bunch of resources. I would say that I spent a good amount of time learning this stuff and practicing it but when it came to applying everything he taught me in real time, I seemed to be oblivious to both the overall meta and some minor nuances to the game. I would say I played for maybe 6-8 months in 2007. I certainly have no problem admitting that I'm pretty oblivious to how high-level CS actually works, even though I understand a lot of the game itself.

     

    No need to apologize though. 

    • Upvote (+1) 1

  5. Especially in the earlier years of the MLG forums, Elitism was largely attributed to CE players constantly talking down to others. I feel that has changed largely as the ones still playing that game are ones that often don't visit forums of social media in general. To be honest I figured ARRRRRG was aware of CE's depth/nuances/meta. I wasn't aware he was oblivious to it.

     

    I guess it's no different than the opinions of recent pros who claim the game is a 3shot fest without having any actual experience playing it in a meaningful way. The melee system in CE makes a lot of sense to me coming from someone who has competed in each title. Nades are definitely attributed towards being nukes, but again the only people I hear complaining are the ones that have very little experience with the game at a competitive level.

     

    I really love the nade physics in CE minus plasmas. Frags have a long fuse time combined with a large blast radius allowing skilled players to avoid a lot of nades that are thrown all willy-nilly.. meaning they're banking them or bouncing them instead of throwing sliders.

     

    Regarding melees though yes I do feel CE is the best in the series, but I do want to stress @@phil's point. This happens pretty frequently in CE and is something I rarely find in any other games. Halo 2 had a ridiculous lunge, and while it was possible to duck them, you mostly just forced your character into melee range resulting in traded damage. BXR and BLB helped alleviate this problem to an extent but isn't my ideal solution either. Halo 3 was just nonsense in my opinion and if I'm not mistaken I think the rest of the series kept it similar to H3 right? Non-stop trades seems like a concept where everyone wins/loses and is mindless.

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  6. @@Teapot, honestly the skill barrier for Beach LAN is daunting as fuck. I think it'd be cool to have a huge LAN some other time of year that was more geared towards intermediate players and people trying to learn the game. I think it's unreasonable to expect anyone to put down the time and money to go to Beach LAN unless they're already pretty damn good at the game.

    Kinda like Beach LAN 5.5 but with new players? I would love for that to happen but it would be tricky because it seems like the newer players are more likely to back out last minute for stuff like this.

     

    That's a good reason too. I went over a few in the h5 thread a while back. Time/money is a large factor. Even if you had it would you want to spend vacation time to LAN? There are tons of valid reasons. If there are new players out there that are interested, they have to start somewhere. Yes there are very skilled players there that would beat me 100s in a row, but there's also 40 other players there that can be mixed around to have fun series. BL5 I played walker and unit probably the most and no matter who I teamed with it was a ton of fun and very close.

     

    Skill barrier is certainly an issue but depending on how motivated someone is to play and learn, Beach LAN is a hyperbolic time chamber of improvement. I learned more there in a week than I did in the previous decade.

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  7. It was a strange question to begin with, man. What do you want? You asked right after I had said that Halo had a lot of core elements worth refining and I was interested in the potential for future (new) competitive Halo games on PC. I genuinely think it could be big if executed well. I guess I don't understand what led you from that to traveling to Florida to LAN an old console game with an extremely tiny scene. I'm sure it's a good time, but that's quite the time/resource investment.

     

    CE has a lot of interesting elements, but it's not perfect and, if I'm honest, it hasn't aged that great next to modern esports with years of growth and support. It's probably my favorite in the series overall, but if I really wanted to go to a LAN for a competitive FPS, it would probably be Counter-Strike or Quake at this point.

    Sorry it seemed like an odd question to you. Other people ended up answering it with some valuable input. I'd say that for this specific forum, it's not uncommon that many people here are players who competed at one point in the series. You have been here for quite some time and seem to put emphasis on competitive merit/mechanics so I assumed you were an old competitive halo player. I end up asking lots of old and current competitive players about it and gauge their interest. If you are just here because you are a fan of the series in general and are just hoping for a good halo 6 release that's fine too.

     

    I honestly don't remember but I believe time/resources was one of the very valid reasons someone might not be interested in attending. While I often promote the game and praise it like crazy, it definitely has its flaws. I'd say it's aged well with graphics/art-style but in terms of esports, definitely not. Even with NHE but who knows where it will go.


  8. I guess I just don't know what you want me to say to that. lol. It's great that you guys love that game so much and care enough to keep its extremely small competitive scene going. More power to you. I'm sure you have a great time every year and I hope this year's Beach LAN is the best yet.

     

    That said, I think I've been fairly clear that I'm not really that interested in competition on consoles at this point and if I were going to a LAN it would probably not be for  a 17-year-old 30 FPS console game. Beyond that, I just don't think I'm ever going to put the time into that particular title necessary to get even half decent at it, which makes going to a LAN event kind of pointless, IMO.

     

    It's less about me wanting you to say what I want to hear and more the fact that I addressed/quoted you directly in two posts that never received a response. I mean I asked your interest in halo in general and then after that never got responses about Beach LAN specifically. Like I said others ended up answering on their own with plenty of valid reasons. However, those people often aren't talking down to others about competitive merit and game mechanics so I was very interested in what is stopping you from going specifically.

     

    So it's a combo of the game running at 30fps and the fact that you are playing against people who never stopped playing since launch that's stopping you. I think that's fair enough it just is weird to see such constant complaints about Halo when this exists as an outlet. Not saying the complaints aren't valid, just trying to see if there is an actual desire to play a form of Halo you might enjoy. If I had to guess it seems like most of the enjoyment actually comes from the ability to talk down about the series on a website that is primarily focused on it.

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  9. Nice, dude. No arguments and more personal attacks. Welcome to the tribe.

    Remember when I asked you a couple times about why someone who promotes proper competitive FPS on a Halo website seemingly has no interest in attending Beach LAN?

     

    I mean you can just cherry pick and respond to insults if that is the kind of discussion you prefer. The way you post often seems to invite that anyway so maybe that's all you're really looking for. It was cool to see others respond with valid points even though I asked you specifically.

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  10. I mean, stacking full speedboost, full damageboost, + The Answer =/= anything close to Haste. Thats kind of a super extreme example no?  Haste doesn't actually make you do more base damage anyway like damageboost does, just shoot faster, move faster, reload faster and since its halo probably get your shields back faster.  It could be tuned as a package.

     

     

    I wouldn't stack all them together because thats just way too many points, but sure maybe it's an extreme example but using that exploding saw with a speed boost did very much feel like I was using haste. Would you say just a speed boost + the answer is close to Haste?

     

    I again think haste works best in games that already have a fast base movement speed and strong individual power. While I understand that Haste allows you to move and shoot, it seems odd to me that we want a mechanic that increases the speed so much of a player in a game where everyone else is very slow.

     

    I'm willing to try it. I feel like in Halo 3 I've messed around with custom power ups that increase movement speed but that didn't increase fire rate.


  11. I understand that sentiment for damage boost, but with haste there would still be a tell that the player has haste, and you can still count shots to know how much damage you have received since each shot still does the same damage, they can just shoot faster.  There is still an opportunity to outplay haste that there isn't with damage boost.

     

    If they're shooting a pistol or DMR it's a lot easier to read the damage per shot from Haste, but imagine if that player was coming at you with a SAW. Yeah, you can still figure out the damage on paper but that's something a little to tricky to tell in your head as you engage that fight. I've cheesed warzone assault a bunch using speed boosts, damage boosts and the saw that does exploding damage. Besides a couple other cheap strategies, it's the sleaziest feeling I've gotten out of Halo 5 by exploiting these abilities. Yeah, I know that I am calling them in and not acquiring them on the map, but these items seem to work really well in fast paced arena shooters where there is a lot of focus on individual power/speed.

     

    Halo to me, especially Halo CE is reverse quake where you are slow and strong rather than fast and weak. The weapon kill times already dictate the pace of the game in CE and the rest of the series is slower so I would say there is more of an advantage to getting those items in later titles. Especially when they are so focused on teamwork rather than individual power..

     

    I'm open to discussing ideas but hesitant to throw haste or other power ups from other area shooters without really trying to change them to fit Halo first.

     

    Nothing to do with its validity or counterplay potential. I'm not commenting on how good or bad it is.

     

     

    I'm saying it's annoying and not fun to play with or against. It's not fun trying to guess where camo guy is, or even knowing where he is and not being able to kill him. Just likes its not fun spraying an OS player for 20 seconds as he runs towards you and Spartan charges you. I think there are better ideas out there that are more interesting, more fun to deal with, and actually change your playstyle and force you to act more skillfully. Literally turning invisible or tripling your health doesn't do anything besides blatantly making you better.

     

     

    It might not be super dynamic for OS but I would say the power ups should change your play style. OS is a great tool to make aggressive plays. It has potential to win a fight if you are down in numbers or obtain map position. You might not be playing "smarter" but you can be more aggressive. Camo allows you to be a lot more passive and sneaky in your decision making. I do agree these power ups give the player a massive advantage (makes them better) but still requires a slight change in play style if you want to be effective.

     

    Besides Halo CE, I would agree that finding the camo guy isn't fun. Most of the other games have a weaker camo and weaker players in general and besides having a constant visual on the guy it's pretty hard to tell where he might be heading. As odd as it sounds I really do enjoy hunting the camo player in CE.

     

    Hang Em High has a ton of variables involved and places to hide. Say the opponent picks up camo as it spawns and his teammate is dead. He either goes to camo ramp and gets the random, which is a very predictable move, or moves out into the open, letting his partner get spawn fucked allowing camo to escape. People shoot that random all the time just to see if thats where he moved.

     

    The team that is trying to kill the camo guy is looking for a lot of things depending on the time and where his partner spawns. If the partner spawns camo ramp than camo guy is still close to that area near blue. Is top power up available? If so maybe he is going back camo corner to nade it. Did his partner get the random but you shot camo ramp and nobody was there? Well maybe he got the back camo corner random. Parter spawns red pistol? He moved out either towards mid or red base. Was camo guy weak? If so he might end up getting the bottom mid health pack that way he doesn't die to one nade. Is it the 2,5,8 minute camo etc? A lot of times that camo seems to be used to truck over towards red base and go up top to get the fresh 3:00/6:00/9:00 etc power up. This creates some diverse decisions just on Hang em alone.

     

    I don't mean to cite my experience with H1 as a summary for the entire series. I think overall things can be improved. CE might have me biased but I like how overshield is a powerful tool but at the same time you can die very quickly while having it. Everything in the game is powerful and it helps nullify that advantage. 

     

    I like a lot of mutators and stuff in games. As shitty as Nexuiz was I thoroughly enjoyed it. I mean some of those mutators were really far out there and unbalanced but they tend to work fine in true arena shooters. Most of them effected the overall game but there were ton of them that just effected the individual. One of the more interesting ones in that game to me was the medic feature. Similar to Ana in overwatch but when that was activated you could shoot your teammates to heal them.

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  12. One thing I valued in Halo was the fact that damage was consistent based upon what weapon you were firing. Haste and Quad Damage changes that up quite a bit, and these are power-ups I am fine with if the game features a fast movement speed and quick kill times in general. You can still run or still rail the guy with the power up but in Halo you don't have that luxury.

     

    To me it sounds odd that these are potentially better options and that Camo is considered bad in the context of Halo. Camo varies throughout the Halo's but its one of the more interesting dynamics in Halo CE. Sounds like to most here it's some get out of jail free card when from my experience with H1 that is not the case. I think CE has one of the most effective camps in the series with Halo 5 getting the closest, and reading what I read questions how you guys approach a situation when camo is picked up by the other team.

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  13. I wasn't aware of that.  I stand corrected.

     

     

    That being said, they seem like they're much less hands on nowadays from my brief experience working with them.

     

     

    I do agree with that now and really only know of some bad experiences that basically lead up to whatever point in time Microsoft stopped charging indy dev to patch their game on the Arcade. That was the last major thing I remember devs being displeased with.


  14. From my limited understanding nearly all of those issues sprouted from aggressive deadlines and not necessarily interference in development and design decisions. Which I understand, when you make a deal with a publisher it's because they're swallowing a loss for you to give you the opportunity to make them their money back. I've never had a problem with aggressive deadlines coming from publishers nor do I think they're evil for holding developers to it. That being said this is coming from someone who's never worked under Microsoft, yet.

     

    Shadowrun was first designed to be a RPG shooter with a campaign. Then the art style was scrapped, then they changed the engine to Halo's when M$ wanted it to be a competitive shooter. Then, they asked FASA to not to make a console game and instead make it a PC game that had to be rushed to ship with Vista. It was apparently FASA's idea to not scrap the console and instead make it cross platform. Not saying the game would have been a wide success if M$ didn't step in but I can't say any of their influence helped those developers.

     

     

    You act like the Rocket is different. If I hear someone close behind me I can do a 180 and almost definitely kill them. Rockets take almost no skill to use qnd if someone is having difficulty with them they're probably thumbless. It takes just as little skill as a Bubble Shield and probably less thinking in a non-******** implementation of a Bubble Shield.

     

     

    I do act like they are different because I choose to compare them past a point where they are items that are on map pick ups on set timers. I agree they are the same there but if thats where we draw the line than this discussion is rather pointless. Again I cited Halo CE as an example because I think the rockets work best there, even though there is a "180" glitch that prevents you from turning and shooting that dislike. Rockets are more balanced in that game compared to other versions of Halo.

     

    If you panic and look at the ground and shoot a rocket, you can die. If you panic and look at the ground and throw a bubble shield you get a protective shield that allows you to live. The trip mine might be a better comparisons since it's an explosive, but I don't think you are looking into the differences deeply enough if you feel they are 1 to 1 identical.

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  15. I don't think Microsoft manipulates development on the game in the way people are assuming they do. As far as I'm aware they've always been a really lenient and hands off publisher.

     

     

    I've heard that they have improved over time, but I hear about how rushed Halo 2 was, how horrible the development cycle of Shadowrun was, and lots of issues with indie/arcade developers and beg to differ. This is mostly around the 360's life cycle but it seemed like they stepped in a lot with some ridiculous demands.


  16. I will never understand why people somehow see Equipment as annoying and Rockets as not. Using a Rocket Launcher is just as much of a "get a couple free kills" card as a bubble shield is a "get out of jail" free card. Rockets create an interesting gameplay dynamics and strategies. Bubble Shields do the exact same thing but because they were improperly integrated into 3 everyone hates them now.

     

     

    There was a pretty decent discussion on this in the Halo 5 thread.. (just typing those words out feels weird)

     

    Yes, you can view them in that way but you also should really dissect each piece of equipment/weapon etc.

     

    Rockets are a very powerful and somewhat relatively easy weapon where as the difficulty comes from being able to line up and time a shot perfectly. I really enjoy Halo CE's balance with rockets. They're very very powerful, so it's very likely to kill yourself and there is a long delay between firing.

     

    A bubble shield is something that requires very little aim or awareness to use. It's possible to just hear the projectile of a rocket being fired and just spam the button without seeing where it was fired from. Equipment generally wasn't very hard to use or had much depth going for it in terms of it's basic use. However, grav lifting a bubble shield, or doing some sort of equipment jump etc was pretty cool.

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  17. Yeah, it's not shut down. People are killing the game even more by spreading that misconception around.

     

     

    When they made Shadowrun backwards compatible I'd say 75% of all the responses were "Did they turn the servers back on?"...

     

    The servers were never shut off. I didn't play the game at launch myself but at some point that rumor must have spread around so widespread that it actually effected the games population.

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  18. I don't have a PC and this game isn't going to change that but I think its cool there is some outlet available for people to get their fix of Classic Halo. As much as I loved competing in H3 and enjoy the game casually I still would rather play Halo CE or Halo 2 over Halo 3. It does sound like they made some promising fixes though.

     

    I know its a lot easier said than done but I've always stressed that people who feel so dearly about their preferred version of Halo should do something about it. I'm aware how bad it is to play H3 on 360 due to lack of population and the amount of modders, but it's nice to see that there is some large scale outlet for all you die hard Halo 3 fans, just like the CE guys have Neutral Host Edition

     

     

    edit: didn't realize my post came across negative. I'm saying that this is a good thing now that we have this. Now people have something to go to and play that is classic, where as before they didn't have any really good options.

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