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Teapot

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Everything posted by Teapot

  1. I can not check this thread for a few days and every time I come back it's like I'm reading the same page. Massive deja vu. off topic but I got a chance to LAN at dmaq's this past weekend. Set up was a fail for Friday night but we had a great day Saturday. Got to play some 4's in CE against strange purple, pray4u, xXx, Ghost and others. Playing 4's against people who competed back in the day is interesting. The game feels like a complete cluster fuck to me, watching dug play them shows there is massive gap in 4's mentality.
  2. It also created the camping mentality of holding set ups. I know that in CE 4's there was the infamous TDT flag cap on Creek with a set up but that is still playing the OBJ offensively. Or holding pink in Chilly ball etc. In slayer however there should always be incentive to move but instead this created plenty of games that never reached the 50 kill mark. Yeah, lockout is also terrible for this but I think Gemini is the first example of this at an event.
  3. "coin toss utility" and "gun doesn't work" sounds like a pretty broad and extreme hypothetical situation. I'm picturing some sort of weapon that's even worse than the halo 3 BR. Imagine halo 3 with sprint? That'd be terrible. Get out of jail free cards don't play nice with long kill times. Halo 5 is the first in the series to get sprint right but that doesn't mean it's actually good, it's just no longer absolutely terrible. I enjoyed my time playing halo 5 and had no problem with the movement techniques although thrusting off objects was something I couldn't do consistentaly. It's fun to chain them but I'd rather there be a stronger emphasis in the shooting skill gap than movement. It's been shown throughout the first 3 games that classic movement can have a big skill gap with trick jumps. To me it makes no sense to argue for sprint other than "well he's a super solider". Great... we can literally achieve what sprints offers without it being there. If you told me that I can trade a consistent halo CE pistol for sprint I would never take that option. Can't imagine trying to deny camo on HeH. Has anyone here played Murder Miners? It's minecraft style graphics with a weapon sandbox mixed of halo CE and halo 2. You can even wall kick. It was fun to play but sprinting around maps even with a halo CE pistol just felt wrong. I'd rather try to punish a slow moving out of place player in halo 3 with the RNG BR than play ring around the rosy in halo reach or 4.
  4. Riddler/oh4's post explains exactly what is happening in that clip imo. I thought this was a relatively common thing in just about all online shooters. It's common to be shot around a corner without lag from black ops 2 to Shadowrun with no visible lag... because that's how lag compensation works. It's weird to go to h3 events and watch tons of gameplay back when it was on the circuit and see more people miss than land shots. Even top pros it seemed like there were some exceptions but all those top 16/32 players would miss more than they'd hit. I wonder what's different now.
  5. I forget with H3 but doesn't H2 split screen drastically cut off part of the screens? Bottom screen can't see the top of their screen and top screen could barely see their gun. I would much rather play full screen then look over to my teammates monitors than deal with terrible fov. I feel like h3 had this problem but to a lesser extent. It's been a loooooong time though.
  6. I know I'm a bit late but I still haven't rewatched the h3 broadcast. I caught some of it and it was awesome, but was busy at Devilmans LAN then rewatched the h1 broadcast. It blows my mind to see this quality of a tournament run for Halo CE. We have had a few tournaments over the past few years but in terms of production quality this is by far the best. Esportsarena was our first taste of getting a legitimate venue, but we were definitely not given the same love as as Team Fortress 2. Maryland Madness was like 07, and I don't think anyone was paid from that. After that it was the tiered tournament at BL4 which was for little money. We got our first major tournament at Beach LAN 5 and that I think helped bring awareness to our community. After all this time and effort our grassroots community has put in, we finally were thrown a bone by UGC who was not only willing to host a tournament but listen very closely to the competitive community. At Dmans, we all watched the finals like a bunch of nerds. I think that if they were to do another and give a few months notice than I can see at least 30 teams going for CE, possibly more considering that it seems to speak to old/retired players. If we can get 25-30 teams at beach LAN I see no reason why we can't for another UGC. Major props to UGC, Skillshot/Proverb, Hardway, Knightyknight and anyone else that helped make this possible. I think Dynomike provided A LOT of the equipment. Big thanks to those who participated even though they're not part of the LAN groups. I know it's not easy to see some of the depth the game has below the surface, but I hope some of you guys here that don't care to take the time to learn CE got a good taste of the skill gap and meta. Those guys are the goats for a reason, and maybe watching them manhandle Gandhi and Toxin might open your eyes that the game has changed a lot and the players have massively improved. Two VABeachLANs ago we were outside talking about the future of our game and tournaments. Nobody knew what to expect and yet here we are. Yes, I'm a huge fan of the game but all the money I've put up over the years is purely due to the fact that these guys are so insane at the game that they deserve a platform to showcase it. I'm glad to see others agree.
  7. As far as snowballing goes it absolutely doesn't help when you are able to fly across the map to collapse on players or fly to power weapons that are easy to use. What I can't seem to understand though is this notion that any power weapon or item picked up at any time in any game is never earned. Then when it is used against your team it is considered easy cheap and no skill. That player doesn't deserve it etc. These are not ordnance drops or things that are given out randomly. It's fine if you don't want to use them and enjoy using a different gun but I can't imagine myself letting the other team get every single item and then blame the game. @-DeucEy- Regarding Tour De Walsh; The only version that gets a pass for me is Halo 2 Classic. That's mostly because of the button glitches though. FFA on its own wasn't really ever my thing past Halo 2. The aim assist is generous but the ability to quad shot and bxr multiple people made it a more enjoyable experience than playing a H2A game where you have pretty much no individual power. I do think that for FFA it's best to keep it equal starts with no power weapons for all the Halo FFA's but that plays much differently than a 4v4 game.
  8. Yeah I actually have a pathetic amount of experience using a controller. I know it is never going be even remotely close to a mouse in terms of accuracy but I also don't think people realize it's not impossible. There's a decent amount of muscle memory that goes into it. I played with a handful of others who seemed to break that threshold too. That was a small minority though and the majority of players walk around like they are Peace-Sims from Perfect Dark. I don't think the changes need to be so extreme so it's 1:1 compared to quake. That to me is the "extreme" example of how things can turn out when you remove the item management game and resort solely to an aim or reaction based gameplay.
  9. These are exactly the kinds of discussions I don't want to jump into. It's clear nothing can be said without it being taken wildly out of context and personal. I think that for the sake of Halo's core, I would be more willing to discuss how to change the mechanics of the power weapons versus changing the mechanics of the utility weapon if I was forced to just choose one in terms of weapon balance. I believe if done correctly it would create more weapons that have niche roles and then counters to that. I've played a decent amount of quake and unreal and have played plenty of Rails/Instagib matches. Those modes are actually a lot of fun and I can play them all day. The major difference there is a massive gap in aim skill and movement speed compared to any Halo. Aim skill and reaction time are now incredibly important since you no longer have to put as much thought into timing and your movement. With armor and weapons, the aim skill and reaction time still exist all the same but you just have plenty of other items to contest for interesting engagements. I've played these same Rails Only modes in CTF. Same deal, it was fun, people in that game both camp and play the obj since I guess a lot maps are set up to hold the flag in a base or isolated room. I just personally didn't find that rails only was a harder game or took more skill than a regular duel. Yeah, Halo isn't quake, but it doesn't sound like anyone else is providing examples of how it could work from other games. We would need to increase the movement speed and strafe acceleration. Turn down aim assist and auto-aim to create an interesting enough weapon to me to warrant it's own gameplay. I disagree that it is impossible to aim without these mechanics on an analog stick but absolutely believe that the majority of the console base would not want to deal with it.
  10. They didn't even want the H2 BR to be good at all ranges. It had random spread just like the H3 BR but it was accidentally patched when trying to fix the issues with dual pistols being OP. I forget if they changed RoF and spread or just spread but it was somehow applied to the BR too.
  11. I would try the customs but dude this seems real personal to you at this point. All the posts are a wow lmao deep fried meme vibe. Last time this was brought up I thought a few very important factors worth discussing was map design and the utility weapon's strength vs ease of use. I don't think any Battle Rifle in the series is skullful enough on its own to warrant the gameplay. Halo 2's BR is enhanced with the button combos. H2A shows just how bland this is. This is one reason I ask about the maps. It'd be nice to toy around with the magnetism and auto aim and find a good balance. I honestly think an h3 br with no spread would be pretty viable. this could be a pretty good discussion. It seems like it's just snipers and rockets but I am curious about other weapons, like the shotgun and plasma pistol. They often netted easier kills when used properly in their niche than a sniper.
  12. I don't think we've made any progress from last time. Good luck setting up that lobby tonight but I imagine a lot of people wouldn't be on until later. What maps do you guys plan to test? I'm sure I'll chime in again on this later as to why I think it is not the best solution or certainly not a blanket solution.
  13. I am a big fan of the quad view with proper casting myself but am biased because I'm sure CE players can interpret more of what's happens behind the scenes compared to viewers who have not played. I think one TV perspective is better for the viewer but show both teammates POVs. There's too much important positioning and spawn control that be explained to the viewer rather than hidden. The reason it's not like that at Beach LAN is that there are quite a bit of people who like the quad screen. Yeah, we don't have UGC's production but Devilman had it set up so we can easily switch from Quad POV, to a single team POV, and even to a single player POV where the webcam* is isolated on them, their perspective is the only one and the mic only picks up their voice. He had that set up for 8 man FFA's too which is insane. Most notably was last years Kush Cam where we zoomed in on him and he was just going nuts. Or when we zoomed in on Doodooshit in chill out oddball 4v4. He practically went cross-eyed trying to watch 3 screens.
  14. You mean the verbal ones? I'm not really sure and it's been a viewer complaint in the past when we have 8 stations next to each other counting down. It seems like most LAN players enjoy the item timer as a reminder. The quake player in me says we don't need them since they are really easy to remember.
  15. I'm pretty indifferent on it. I love NHE and am used to it. I would rather play NHE in the tournament for those reasons as well as the fact that it cuts the series in half and that my hands can't keep up with those long hours like I'm used to. There are pros and cons to this. As a throwback tournament, my guess is that they are hoping for as many old players as possible to come out. The majority of those old players have no idea about NHE and there really isn't enough time to practice for those players. The major difference is aiming your shots correctly on neutral host, which takes time to adjust to, as well as new maps which I don't expect to see in the tournament. A lot of people feel like NHE requires more lead than off-host which creates an inconsistency in shooting. The NHE team ended up removing the pistol spread entirely to help with the issue and it's really only noticeable when cross-mapping like on Hang Em. This version of the game will have the in-game timer, and it's very easy to cycle through the different versions of the game. The Vehicle selection trait in the options rotates through NHE, Training Mode, On/OFF and I think a nade practice mode, so players on the side can easily switch. Depending on the set up at UGC, many in-game noises have been removed preventing the other team from getting free audio cues off your TV. I would rather play NHE than on/off personally but that's been the big debate over the past two years within the active LAN groups. The old school players most likely have no idea about any of this.
  16. Looks like he's waiting on Patch's response but I'm sure he can get whoever else he asks.
  17. Like who? I can only think of a handful of top old pros that have touched NHE. Always nice to see some old players give it a shot.
  18. I hope there is some stream and that Hardway gets the chance to cast. I told Matt that he was our Beach LAN caster. I'm grateful for them taking the opportunity to run a Halo CE tournament. I've been talking with Matt for a while and he's been really supportive. It's unfortunate that this Halo CE 2v2 tournament takes place the same weekend as @Devilmans Virgina Beach LAN. We have about 30 people already committed to that including McDick. I'm not sure if anyone will back out to go to the UGC event or not. I'm just worried about the turn out for Halo CE because of this. It makes sense to run this though on the side in conjunction with a Halo 3 event. We might be lucky enough to get another event with CE in the future but this particular one is just bad timing. Them wanting to play NHE and on OG equipment shows they're definitely interested in what the active community wants. @vinny - people who barely play MCC still probably play more than "old Halo 1 pros". Those who went to those old school tournaments are seriously out of practice.
  19. Awesome, thanks. I see what you guys are saying. I wonder if they reached out to others who turned them down or only really contacted UGC.
  20. Could someone post the link to the grassroots program again? I really only heard about it through UGC's event but never looked into what it entailed. I didn't even realize that this was something where they reached out to people beforehand. Is it geared more towards these tournament organizers? Open LANs? MCC only?
  21. It's not undermining the game or leagues success, it undermines the players who compete and spend a lot of time and effort to be at the top of something that you can write off so easily as skilless. I am willing to talk about game mechanics when comparing stuff, but blanket statements are pointless. Everything @@Trespa5s wrote about the differences can be with comparing two halo titles next to each other, and done in a way that makes it look like one takes little skill. It's just an extreme example of something that doesn't exactly take much skill and depth but is still done with such dominance. I don't think offering respect for someone else craft like that exactly has to do with standards as much as it would just being able to recognize that someone can be wildly better at a mundane task than others. I think if it were a matter of "standards" for skillful gameplay I wouldn't have spent countless years playing dead games solely because their mechanics were much more skillful than any other games at the time, like Black Ops or Reach. Have you ever seen the show Unbeatable Banzuke? It was full of various challenges that took weird and random elements of skill. It would have random contestants as well as "pros" when it came to some of the obstacle courses where you went through them either on a bike, a pogo stick, or handstands. These are examples of things that might not exactly be the hardest thing in the world but were done with such extreme skill they can at least be respected. Whats up man? Are you still in Hoptacong? We LAN'd at your house in like 09 and that's probably the last time I saw you.
  22. It's always been a debate about the word competitive and whether or not competitive = skillful. Personally, I don't feel they are the same thing. We can differentiate mechanics from competition. All shooters have some form of map control/positioning and emphasis on reaction time. No matter how simplistic the "reaction time" aspect is of it, it is a measurable skill. Some games are very deep in terms of mechanics and metagame and still require fast reaction times. CoD's main gap in skill, in my opinion, comes from what I listed. Map control and rotations as well as insane reaction times. The main emphasis is on the reaction times, and when you have 256 teams playing a game like that it surely pushes this emphasis to the limit. That's my main point with CoD. My overall point was people undermining other games and gamers from their armchairs. Sure, I think CoD is easy compared to other games. I'd even go as far as to say I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to learn it's meta but I don't believe I can outclass these guys when it comes to reacting. As I get older they are only going to get worse. I'm just tired of seeing people completely undermine others games while doing little to support what they enjoy. I'm equally tired of those defending their games as the end all be all of competition when they don't support their own title. How much of a skill gap does a Hot Dog eating contest have? I sure as hell don't know but despite what I assume is an incredibly tiny skill gap in a competition like that, it has thousands of competitors yet Kobayshi reigned king for years. Am I going to view him in the same light as Fedor or MJ? No but I'm still gonna respect his craft.
  23. I'm sure at some point we'll break out the usual game comparison discussion. Seems inevitable at this point. I really enjoy certain games and may be biased towards them but am always willing to discuss mechanics in depth or objective properties of the game that can add insight into skill and competitive merit. I do feel certain titles are just better competitive games. This is from a player perspective and not a spectator. Games like CS, Quake, Halo CE and Shadowrun to me have massive skill gaps. Smash and Blazblue are insane fighters. There are plenty of other games I enjoy competitively but might not have as much hidden depth. Halo 3, Street Fighter 5, Smash Brawl etc are massively popular and could be considered competitive or skill based, but just not to the extent of other titles. This all seems to be obvious, but what doesn't seem obvious is people's ability to observe or critique this with little bias. It seems like everyone loves to speak from an ark chair perspective. I have no idea why people undermine others games when they are and have never been near the top of said game. CoD as the example here. I don't feel it demands or requires certain properties that can be considered difficult in other shooters. There's no map pick ups like halo or quake. It doesn't promote team shooting etc. It does however have a massive emphasis on in game positioning for lines of sights, insane reaction times considering the weapons are generous and kills fast. How can anyone possibly undermine CoD when you have 256 teams of players with insane reaction times and awareness? Anyone who is willing to take that route should step back and look at whatever game they prefer. I guarantee you there are flaws. If you want to cite any form of competitive merit as the reason you better damn well be supporting the most competitive version of the game you play. This isn't exactly directed at anyone in specific but more so overall
  24. I missed this but it made me laugh. Wonder whose account this is lol. Beach LAN 5 night 1 Jon Fight walked up to me and said let's go we're teaming, I'm going teach you what to do. Dude played a full series and just coached me through the entire thing. a major hurdle for newer players is screen watching properly since nobody calls out. I do screen watch but still miss stuff and 7 games straight Fights yelling "see this?" every time I need to look. Pointed at downed rockets, where people were about to pop out from a second before they do etc. In between the games he explained what situations just happened and what I should have done. He was like a proud father trying to teach his kid how to ride a bike. That was my first BL and I've played with a ton of ppl who tried to help me. Him and cujjer are great in game coaches.
  25. I should prob check the tournament results but I was always under the impression that zyos was a step ahead of the rest in 1v1 gameplay in general. He's the original nerd. From what I remember zyos could nade down the power ups on wizard but Walshy could do it from more places and while on the move. I do know though that the majority of the players who played back then unfortunately prefer 4's to 2's. When I talked to zyos I told him about beach LAN and he thought it was awesome but said he wouldnt be interested unless it was 4's
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