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Showing content with the highest reputation since 09/25/2019 in Posts

  1. 29 points
    Well first of all, thank you. And no, there's no chance. The work flow MOST studios that I've personally experienced seem to follow is; artists create a kit of blocks. Level Designers take those blocks, and are allowed to use them on the grid in a very specific way that the art team will allow. Whereas it should be the exact opposite. It should be, level designers just building cool levels with all the weird abstract angles and nuances that they want, and then artists have to figure out how to make it. But it doesn't work like that. Quick example You can literally see the blockout in this picture, made of squares and the kit that 343 allowed. Adrian (the 343 LD who made this) did not go into Plaza thinking "Oh I'm going to make a sick train station). He went in, threw down a generic blockout with a bunch of squares, only 90 degree angles because that's what the kit allows, and then the art team looked at it said "eeeehhhhh I guess we could turn this into a train station maybe?". Which is why it doensn't actually look anything like what its supposed to, nor does any 343 map. You can look at every single one of them and just see jumbles of squares and ramps at only 90 degree angles. Whereas all the Bungie maps, even if they played like dogshit, actually had identity and character to them. You can look at Construct and tell that the designer started with an idea, which was 'a forerunner map that's tall and forces you to use lifts'. Narrows is the 'big linear bridge'. They all have unique ideas behind them because they started with that. 343 does the exact opposite where they just throw blocks at you and streamline you into just making soulless blockouts so the art team doesn't have to work as hard. This obviously, is the opposite of the ideal scenario as design should always take precedent over everything else but that's usually not what happens in most studios. Maps like Guardian would never exist in a 343 game because everything in that map is custom made specifically for the shape, none of it is reuse able or generic, it couldn't be made with a kit. This is also why 343 rarely does Covenant, because the nature of the art style is such that you can't really make a convincing pre-built kit for it. There's too many curves and soft angles, it would never blend properly. You can bet because Infinite is running so far behind schedule that you're probably going to see a majority UNSC maps, less forerunner, and the least Covenant. Because UNSC is easy to pump out 100 different clones with simple pieces and generic blockouts. Treyarch was pretty good about this; if you built a 1cm cut-in inside a wall, the art team would go out of their way to make it. Anything you wanted in a CoD map they made sure to support so long as you let them know you wanted it. I've worked other places where this was not the case, and I had to stay on the grind, only 90 degree angles, every path had to fall on a 20m increment, all ramps had to be 27 degrees, no taller than 12 feet, etc. It gets old real quick. And if you've ever seen my maps, that's not how I build. Lots of soft angles and weird elevations and custom curves and sightlines. They just look better, play better.. it's just the right way to build maps. My maps at 343 would not look anything like these.
  2. 27 points
  3. 27 points
  4. 25 points
    Here's how I see it: I'm done hating on Halo. We're never going to get classic Halo back with the exception of MCC and I am having a fantastic time playing it, warts and all. Hating on it has gotten me nothing and nowhere. Playing it has given me hundreds of hours of enjoyment. Complaining about BR spread, bloom, sprint, clamber, AA's, art and all the rest had given me some enjoyment and catharsis for the poor decisions that have been made over time, but you know what? I still have almost 1000 hours in MCC since launch, I still organize Halo 1/2/3 campaign playthroughs with my brother at least once a year. The boyz still get on and play BTB matchmaking for fun. Hating on Halo has got me nothing but... well hate. I said it before: The more I visit this forum the less I enjoy MCC. If I have a gaming night coming up where we plan to chill and play some Halo 3 BTB, I don't visit here for a few days. Competitive Halo has been on life support since 2011. It's done. Anything done now is a resurrection and kudos if it succeeds. I've moved past pretending this place has any influence over Halo's future and that discussing every semantic to death is worth any effort. If 343 can release a game that looks like Halo, sounds like Halo and plays at least mostly like Halo that's great. But more importantly I just want to have fun. I want to hop on for a few hours with the boyz and capture some flags. I have a full time career, I have my hobby in my YouTube channel that passed 50k subscribers this year, I'm getting married, buying a house and training for a triathlon. When I game, I want something fun with a hint of competitive to get my blood running. If I play with friends, I want something we can have a laugh and banter about whilst we play. I don't particularly want to play a game then go on a forum and bitch about every issue with it anymore. Bigger fish to fry y'know? If the game is bad, the aiming doesn't work etc. etc. then Halo will remain dead. I've had 19 years of enjoyment, that's ok. There are other games to play these days. Besides, we've already got the dream: we can try the new Halo without paying 343!
  5. 25 points
  6. 24 points
  7. 24 points
  8. 24 points
    So you're saying it can still get worse
  9. 23 points
    That's like a reflection of me watching the trailer.
  10. 22 points
    Halo Infinite delayed to 2021, 6 year dev cycle let's get it boys
  11. 22 points
    I'm not gonna say that I told everyone so buuuttt... I told you guys lol the problem isn't even the engine, H2A looks amazing. Their artists just don't get it. All the horsepower, time, money, and references to Bungie art won't make the artists at 343 understand what to do. It's pretty clear that they're doing their best to replicate Bungie's art through the shape language, but that's just one piece of the puzzle. Bungie are gods at texture painting as you guys saw by the Assault Rifle comparison to Reach (I believe the specific position is called Material Artist, and I believe Bungie hand paints all their textures). Everything in the Infinite trailer, even if it had the right styling and silhouette looked like dough, it's just bad material work. The weapons, the enemies, the weird hexagons all over the environment. Also the physical structures like the crates, watchtowers, and the AA gun they enter at the end of the trailer are all still hideous weird shapes. You can see 343's art comes through in all of those when they stop referencing Bungie's precedent. At some point, you just need people who know what they're doing. They don't get it. Meanwhile in Destiny OOF Look at those textures. So good. Guarentee all these shots are lower poly than everything in that Infinite reveal, probably much lower fidelity on everything across the board. But they just know what to do with the colors and lighting and textures to make it right.
  12. 22 points
  13. 21 points
  14. 21 points
    Great to hear son. And you tell the truth. But still, I have another truth. I'm the old man on Beyond. I could be your father, and probably the grandfather of many of you. When I started playing Halo, I was older than most of you are now. I have been married for 25 years, I have grown children and my career has been long and rewarding. I have lots of interests outside of computer games. Gardening, bird watching, astronomy, traveling, good food and wine. None of my friends play computer games. I do not have any friends online, mostly because I realize I'm an old man (in this specific world). But as many of you will discover one day, part of your mind gets stuck at the age of 17. So it is for me, and computer games and especially Halo keeps my mind young and occupied. I don´t want to "grow up" and leave gaming for good. To "love" and "hate" Halo is kind of fun. At the end of the day it does not crawl under my skin. Things that creates passion in life is usually a good thing. To be passionate is to live. In reality, I don´t hate 343 or actually love any Halo game. One cannot diminish hate and love so much that it can be applied to a computer game. Not in my age anyway. So what you experience as something that takes energy from you is actually what gives me some energy. And that is the way it should be. Every part of life has it content and meaning. I have learned a long time ago what is important in life and to be able to be passionate without becoming obsessed is a good thing. I'm passionate about Halo; I have played tens of thousands of matches, and have passed all games on legendary many times. Well, my wife actually thinks I am obsessed but she is to old to understand the importance of killing grunts and collecting imaginary medals. Some of the Halo games are much more fun than others and as a demanding customer, I want to experience more of the best Halo. And I know it is a market for a great Halo game. And I want it. So therefore I am here, following the news and the opinions of other Halo gamers. Best of luck with the house and soon to be wife. For me, that was an awesome time in life. :-)
  15. 21 points
    Guys I did a thing. I've never done a thing before:
  16. 20 points
  17. 20 points
  18. 20 points
    I love it when Boyo switches gears from eccentric brainstormer to shit talker.
  19. 20 points
    This might be my greatest contribution to the Halo ecosystem in 15 years.
  20. 19 points
    People that make 60+ accounts just to post that Halo 3 is the best and an almost triple kill on Guardian Ball.
  21. 19 points
    Those are good despite being htiscan, not because they are hitscan. There are many bad attributes about every great game out there. Counterstrike has slow, very slow, controlled movement with lightning fast kill times. The one thing keeping the game in check is spray patterns, which is a decent solution except it basically completely invalidates the game to ever be played on console. So right off the bat you're using a solution to implement difficulty in your game that only works with 1 input method. You can't do precise spray patterns on a thumbstick. There's also no reason to think the game wouldn't be better if it had spray patterns, AND projectile. And then perhaps it wouldn't have to rely on spray patterns (and actually some RNG in the current version of CSGO) so heavily. This same thing goes for Rainbow Six, although the ranges are very short in all those maps so any weapon that had projectiles move slow enough would disturb realism a bit. But, to be honest half the heroes in that game are already pretty bombastic and unrealistic so it might not be out of place. Quake has more or less the fastest movement we've ever seen in a video game bar tribes, no aim assist, and even the best players in the world who do everything to evade the enemy and rocket jump over a door and only have their feet exposed for 2 frames will still get tagged by the other player using a railgun. That is the perfect example of players hitting their head against the skill ceiling. We've all seen clips of good players with a mouse like Shroud or Rapha. At some point, putting your cursor over the enemy is not an impossible goal to reach for many PC players and there's no where left to go except a point and click adventure. There's nowhere to improve, those players are already immediately bonking their head on the aiming skill for every shooter to ever reach the PC market. If the LG, Railgun, and MachineGun all had travel time Quake would probably be a better game. The same goes for Siege and CSGO but chances are if you mention that to people who play those games they'd laugh or vehemently scoff at you because "What, you think you know better?". People just defend what they know and would rather not think about how to improve things. Your shots still go where you're pointed with projectile, you might be conflating it with RNG spread. Let me throw you guys a hypothetical. I want you to imagine playing a fighting game where the moment the other player starts executing a combo on you, there is no way to break out. There is no input for you to match, no well timed parry or fast fall or invincibility frame to trigger. All they need to do, is not screw up their own combo timing. So the moment you get hit once and are stunned, you are now at the mercy of the other player to screw up. Which, they won't. Because entering combos in just about every fighting game is really not that difficult of a thing to do timing wise. This is actually not too far from a reality when you look at some of the MK games. They technically do have an input that can give you some invincibility frames to exit a combo but it's on a cooldown (stupid decision) so many times; you get hit once, and then because you were hit once, you are now being hit 12 more times as the other players just enters their inputs. This is stupid. The actual underlying issue with this is that while you might have deserved the first hit, you don't deserve the next 12. The game is punishing you for things and not offering you any way to use your own skill to counter or mitigate it. This is the same problem I have with hitscan. The first time Beast and Ice Princess brought up this topic some year ago this was the analogy in my head but i just didn't care enough to bring it up, but their argument was "if I put my reticle in the right spot and pull the trigger, why should they be able to simply walk out of the way of my bullet. I did the right thing." Which is true. But just because you did the right thing, does not mean the enemy player did the wrong thing. Hitscan doesn't ask that question, it doesn't matter how good you move or strafe or dodge or duck, if the other players has enough skill to put their cursor over you, you're dead. Your skill is completely irrelevant, and as we've all seen in some of the great PC players, putting a cursor over someone is not that much to ask for a mouse player. The correct relationship is "I did something right, AND they did something wrong, now I am rewarded with damage", aka I shot correctly, they did not dodge correctly, now my bullet hits them. If you did something correct (being shooting accurately), and they dodge, then you both did the right thing. They shouldn't take damage for that. This is akin to Killer Instincts combo breaker where every single hit that they execute in their combo, the game gives you the chance to match the input and if you can pull it off in the right time it combo breaks. That is good design. Same reason I like projectile, it's not needlessly punishing you for things that are never asked. You actually have control over yourself provided the projectiles move slowly enough, you're not at the mercy of the other player. It's also worth noting that making difficult hitscan shooting on console means dropping the aim assist a LOT, increase the strafe accel a lot, which if we're being real, is just never going to feel comfortable with thumbsticks. it's not what they're good at, anyone who's played Halo 5 at 120% strafe accel and the game's shitty aiming knows exactly how mental it is to try and shoot someone moving like that, and that's in a game with a lot of AA as well. You can't tune hitscan the same way between console and PC and get relatively similar average kill times, it just doesn't work. This is why devs resort to either doing separate tuning between platforms, or some stupid damage dropoff.... or most commonly RNG spread. Or you do spray patterns. Or, you can say screw hitscan and do projectiles with decent sized bullet width that is equally difficult on both console and PC, protects long range combat, and more proportionately rewards and punishes players for how they move. And if you're dead set on having a weapon deliver pressure long range you could still just do the really fast moving projectiles that we see in H3 / CE that you can't actually see travel but still require some small reticle adjustments. One of these two requires compromising a million other aspects of the game and coming up with a handful of different solutions, doesn't even work between platforms, has a palpable and visible skill ceiling, and to be honest is just boring. The other is projectile. Tell me which of these two is objectively better game design.
  22. 19 points
    Soul we're on Team Beyond not the death screen of a CoD campaign.
  23. 19 points
    I have gotten into more arguments on Reddit than I can count with people who think Halo 5 routinely hovering around 40th place on XBL's most played list (as Microsoft's flagship title, an exclusive, and going primarily against multi-platform titles) and MCC on PC having 6,000 concurrent players on Steam (putting it 150-200th place) is "still a huge population" and/or "totally acceptable numbers" is fucking baffling, defeating, and worth losing faith in humanity over. That is straight up objectively wrong. Destiny 2 has 70,000 concurrent players on PC, why the hell can't Halo hit those kinds of numbers? What happened to this treasure trove of PC-based Halo fans everyone was banking on? Halo has massively underachieved for eight years and don't let anyone ever tell you different.
  24. 19 points
  25. 19 points
    So then why include it?
  26. 19 points
    You know when the waypoint nerds are disappointed, you have a REALLY BIG ISSUE
  27. 19 points
    343i have decided to build the fanbase from the ground up as well as the engine.
  28. 18 points
    Okay. In 2017 I was told a decent, but vague, amount of information about the next Halo game, except for its name. I was told that Campaign was going to be semi-open world, similar to Destiny, and would be set on a very important Halo ring, the one teased on Halo 5 Guardians' Legendary ending. I was told Forge was going to be very awesome, a larger step forward than H2A to Halo 5. I was told Multiplayer had, and I quote, "Some cool old shit, some cool new shit, but some really stupid shit." Two remakes were in the works. The HCS test Playlist back in 2017, which had a tweaked BR and Gunfighter, was actually a testing bed for Infinite's starting weapons at the time. They were going to have Infinite be another Halo 5, save for the removal of Spartan Charge and Ground Pound. Needless to say, we know now that Infinite has Sprint, Slide, and Clamber, with Armor Augments (Armor Abilities with limited fuel) as pickups alongside Power-Ups and Power Weapons. But, this was when the game was still being developed on Unreal Engine 4. The following info was fed to me over the years. The game was redeveloped through a heavily modified Blam Engine, and hell came with it. Several months of different iterations of Multiplayer and Campaign, art design, level design, weapon sandbox, Utility Weapon starts, advanced movement vs classic, all that has been argued back and forth for the last three years. Eventually they came to what we know now, but didn't spend enough time fully developing the rest of the game. They were going to launch the game with very little content again, until the Campaign demo reveal backlash. The rumor of them making the game into two parts was untrue when it was given, but is now a reality; they never intended Multiplayer to be free. The Commando Rifle was one of the utility weapon tests. The Mangler was going to be a near copycat of the CE Magnum. There was at one time a wall kick. Mythic unintentionally copied what 343 had tried nearly a year earlier. No idea where Forge's state is. There you go.
  29. 18 points
    5 year development cycle. Next to no gameplay analysis to work with. 5 year development cycle. Multiplayer gameplay still largely a mystery. 5 year development cycle. Graphics being poor the only noteworthy thing about the reveal. 5. Year. Development. Cycle. Next gen launch title not looking so next gen, when graphical fidelity literally makes or breaks the success of selling the "worlds most powerful console." 5 Year Development Cycle. Hope you enjoyed my TED talk on why we're talking graphics here of all places, because it's the only noteworthy thing we have to discuss. When multiplayer is finally revealed, then we'll have something to bitch about besides that.
  30. 18 points
    Finally, someone who agrees that SWAT is the most skillful gametype!
  31. 18 points
  32. 18 points
    I'm having a serious laugh at people getting giddy over the promo art being similar to the CE box art. These charlatans have spent years bashing classic Halo and now they're pretending to be excited for it. Fuck off.
  33. 18 points
    I couldn't agree more – 4,000+ word blog posts promising "unity" and a strong "vision" mean nothing when Halo games continue to be unable to sustain a healthy population 3 months after launch. The root of the issue continues to be the game(s) itself. MCC release was a nightmare, Halo 5 suffered from stubborn developers and an identity crisis spanning 3 years, and the MCC reboot/PC release is fueled by nostalgia from players who will not play for more than 10 hours of MP after purchasing. I will continue to believe that Halo needs to present an experience that can be enjoyed and sustained by multiple parties – spectators, streamers, competitors, campaign players, casual MP fans, etc. I'm not saying we all need to be playing the same game (universal settings, etc.), but treating Halo esports as one tiny sliver of a massive pie isn't going to cut it any longer. Real unity will come from a game we all truly enjoy playing and watching. MCC will never deliver that as a 6-in-one package. Infinite is our last hope, and I'm worried about what they are cooking up.
  34. 17 points
    "Sprint is GOOD for combat in Halo" "Slide/thrust jumps are GOOD for combat in Halo and what was I talking about again" He talks about shield recharge penalty for getting shot while sprinting being a risk-reward type of thing, but all he did was pursue his opponent in a gun battle. He didn't activate some kind of super-special item or unique class ability that gives him an advantage over his opponent, he literally just followed him around the corner. Why in the living hell would we want to add a risk element to the simple act of engaging your enemy via advanced movement? Isn't the point of advanced movement to make base combat more exciting? In what world would we want to spectate someone who says "nah I'm not going to challenge that guy because m'charge time"? That's like automatically docking you 1/4 of your shields because you jumped mid-gunfight. Not even going into the fact that the video hits /r/SelfAwareWolves territory where he's a hair's width away from realizing that all it takes is an increase in base movement to solve all of these problems organically.
  35. 17 points
    I reckon its a 6 month delay at least. If it was a 1-2 month delay 343 were hoping for, MS would've thrown money and bodies at it to make it ready for the XSX launch, but for them to delay it outside of the XSX launch? Holy shit the game must be totally fucked behind the scenes if 343 managed to convince MS that this needed to happen.
  36. 17 points
  37. 17 points
    Had to do my own piece
  38. 17 points
  39. 17 points
    For everyone excusing Halo Infinite’s graphics because it’s open world. Cyberpunk 2077 is open world, runs on Xbox One, has WAY more detail and content to render than Halo, will hit 60 FPS at least on the newer consoles, and it looks like this:
  40. 17 points
  41. 17 points
    Watching the drop wall or whatever getting deployed just reinforces the vast chasm between what I view as "Halo" and what 343 views as Halo. To me, combat in Halo, campaign or MP, was all about fluid movement and aggressive, strategic play. You always had to be pushing or moving or strafing in thoughtful, deliberate ways. If you sit stationary for any period of time, you rightly got obliterated. The drop wall is the antithesis of all that. It essentially anchors you to a spot, but doesn't punish you for it. In fact, it encourages and rewards you for doing it. It's a massive hiccup in the flow of combat that flies in the face of everything Halo has going for it.
  42. 17 points
    Someone said the environments looked like 343 hired a Minecraft user to build it and now I can't unsee it.
  43. 17 points
    So @Sitri has been working hard on a sick mod for Reach. 3sk projectile pistol, fixed viewmodels, fixed OS, nade changes, better strafe and faster shield recharge. The mod is in beta stage right now and we'd love more people to come on and test it. (strafe has actually been nerfed since because it was way too easy to just spam left-right) If you're interested in joining and have the PC version then feel free to join the goldpro discord: https://discord.gg/ApbZMp Full gameplay videos coming tomorrow.
  44. 16 points
    You guys don't know what you're talking about. I don't know how much more clearly I can say this but the hardware has nothing to do with how Infinite looks. Gears 5 on the current Xbox One looks better than whatever Halo Infinite would look like if it launched exclusively on Series X at 4k. What looks better, a 4k picture of Minecraft, or a 1080p photograph of the Amazon Jungle? The core engine tech they're using sucks. They're textures suck. The art sucks. The lighting is poorly programmed. The animations are stiff. Nothing you or anyone is complaining about has anything to do with launching on the base Xbox because there are plenty of current Gen games like Battlefield and Doom 2016 that look phenomenal on it. When you complain about current hardware you're giving them an out that they don't deserve. Their engine sucks and art team dropped the ball. That's all there is to it. Stop blaming the hardware.
  45. 16 points
    I know I gush about Bungie all the time here, I know I know, but.. To you guys that picture probably doesn't mean much but every time I see it I think about how some artist sculpted that bridge, exactly for that spot and nowhere else. It's purpose built. And it looks awesome because of it. All custom baby. Alright I'm done venting about Destiny lmao. The first multiplayer footage we see of infinite take a look at the maps. You'll be able to spot if they're made using generic kits pretty quickly.
  46. 16 points
    Thanks man, glad you liked it. I also finished my sprint script two days ago so I'll try and get that recorded sometime this week.
  47. 16 points
    Ok I've had a few hours to chill and gather my thoughts. Pros: - Classic Battle Rifle is a big tick. - Sprint did nothing. The player only used it once and for 0.0001 seconds and it added no movement bonus whatsoever. This is fine because sprintybois can use it but from what I've seen, I don't think it'd affect multiplayer whatsoever. - Elites look like Elites - Brutes look dumb but aggressive at least. - Classic grunts are back, shame about the shit 343 ones being there as well. - 3D map looks awesome, non-linear objective is good idea. - Grapplehook looks cool as a pickup, I really hope it's not standard. Loved the ability to hook a fusion coil and chuck it. That's fun and actually feels pretty Halo to me. Grapplehooking vehicles to then board them sounds fun, if a little overpowered as balls. - No thruster pack, groundpound or charge (so far...) - Spike Grenades are back - Some elements of Halo art is back instead of just power rangers. - Chief looks excellent - Music is copied from Halo rather than 343 Halo. - Variety of enemies. Cons: - Embarrassing graphics for a next gen flagship title. Absolutely embarrassing. - Hit indicators pissing all over my reticule - Sprint is useless yet still made it in the game - Clamber - The effects are atrocious, the blood looks like paintball hits. - Sound design is atrocious, everything is punchy with no other balance. - Enemy AI was dumb af. I hope that's due to playing on easy. - Wall you can sit behind and shoot out of but can't get hit. Fisher Price my first game design. - TEXTURE POP - LOD POP - Cringe speech by the Brute, also the context of it made no sense. Also they spent 2 minutes zoomed in on a super low quality render of an ugly ass brute. - Classic 343 dropping you into a story like we know what's happening. Probably going to release a comic book explaining it. - New human weapon looks like an automatic DMR. - Was that smartscope or classic aim? Better be classic aim. - That new stubby shotgun doesn't have the coloured ironsights. - They've given up making the magnum Halo and just made a generic modern warfare magnum. - Cadency bloom. - I really can't stress how poor the graphics are for next gen flagship title. - Marty O'Donnell, despite being available, wasn't contacted or consulted about using his music.
  48. 16 points
    Dude, I know. I made a thread for people to organize playtests and discussion. Now I have some responsibility for it? Anybody can host a custom game and talk about settings. That thread can still be used for its intended purpose. I do not have a vital role in this process, at all. What a ridiculous thing to pretend to be upset about. It's almost like she just just wants a reason to throw shade at me... Let me make this abundantly clear @TheIcePrincess -I found out about my AIT date well after making that thread. My life changed significantly in the past month. And I do not feel any sort of responsibility to update a Halo forum about it, especially when other people can do the exact same thing I can. -I wasted your time? That's a laugh. No one even asked you to be a part of it. THIS is why. Bad ideas like "remove the sniper", and all the inevitable cliquey high school drama are hardly worth a few extra bodies in a custom that are just gonna stat in obj anyways. And by the look of your progression completion, I'd say you have plenty of time on your hands, so give me a break. Lastly, zero part of my absence prevents this from going forward. You're just looking for an excuse to be upset. And your whole little soapbox diatribe guilt trip operates under the pretense that me and your friends would ever work together on anything to begin with, which is also a laugher. I want nothing to do with any of you. If any part of the last few weeks frustrates you that nothing is getting done, then take some personal accountability and fucking do it. ANYONE can do it. Trying to pin a lack of results solely on me because I made a thread on a Halo forum is a disingenuous attempt to dodge acknowledgement that your ass didn't do anything either. I'm not surprised IcePrincess is doing it because they look for reasons to give me shit. In fact, I don't even think she even feels what she says. She knows I'm right in the fact that I'm not a necessary part of the process. But she saw an opportunity to grandstand and try to make me look bad, and so here we are.
  49. 16 points
    This is the type of well thought out discussion I come here for.
  50. 16 points
    Compared to the Halo community's relentless good cheer of course
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