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#985822 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 22 September 2017 - 11:47 AM

Hopefully we can now get maps that promote movement. The majority of H5 maps give you the feeling that movement is a bad choice.

Part of that’s because movement is inherently punished by the game. The long corridors encourage you to sprint and slide, but doing that is punished if you take any damage. The cooldown of thrust encourages you to take advantage of it to the fullest, but by the same token punishes you if you actually encounter an enemy after having used it for movement. And not being able to shoot during some movement abilities does’t help, either.

Good map design can help, but the constant tradeoffs with movement abilities have a significant negative effect. When so much of a map designer’s power to decide how a map should play is taken away, it takes a lot more effort and creativity to make it work.
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#983148 What Breakout do you Prefer the most?

Posted by Gobias on 01 September 2017 - 11:13 AM

Good points and the bold is probably why the decreased shields just felt so wrong to me. Thats also why i think swat is fucking stupid. If that's the kind of game i want to play, i wont play halo thank you very much.

Swat is only as stupid as it is easy to get headshots. One of the first major Halo tournaments was decided by no shields, 200% health FFA on Blood Gulch, and that might even have more competitive integrity than a few Halo FFA offerings considering the ridiculous skill gap exhibited in that match.
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#983042 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 31 August 2017 - 09:28 PM

A few months ago I started working on a long post about making Halo genuinely good again, and one of the sections was going to be on the weapon sandbox. I'm not sure whether these developments with weapon tuning should be making me more or less motivated to finish it...
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#982655 What is the worst mechanic in a multiplayer game ever?

Posted by Gobias on 30 August 2017 - 01:25 AM

I don't know man.. Fist of panic is pretty stupid. There's a lot of really cheap mechanics in that game lol.

I know you meant to type something else, but I'm liking this as a new naming convention for Spartan Abilities.

Spartan Charge - - - > Melee of Panic
Thruster Pack - - - > Side Step of Panic
Ground Pound - - - > One Hit Kill of Panic
Sprint - - - > Arm Pumping of Panic

Hire me 343
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#982405 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 28 August 2017 - 03:18 PM

I'm think being fair. What do you think the ratio would be for the 3 years post launch- games played precision only vs games played with standard settings?

All Biases aside (I prefer precision only)- If you have one opportunity to recapture a game, why wouldn't you try to Mimick said game as most people remembered it? People remember H3 fondly- And we perceived as flaws isn't neccisarily how the masses felt.

Keep in mind, the veto-tendencies you experienced in your lobbies varied across skill levels.

It doesn't matter how the majority of people remember it. The thing about nostalgia is that it often doesn't last. Nostalgia gets people in, but a compelling experience keeps them in.

The simple fact of the matter is that forcing AR + nerfed magnum starts in a mode without thrust being there to mitigate the ridiculous bullet magnetism is a recipe for disaster. Here's another fact that's been the case since 2001: dominant precision starts make for a more compelling experience. This is true without even considering the danger of snowballing in the form of functional precision upgrades, which is already a problem in default Halo 5 with a Magnum that actually has a scope.

Look. I can respect your posts as an attempt to preserve objectivity on behalf of people who may possibly have a different opinion from us in this situation. But let's not use the current ignorance of some to justify the future suffering of all. At the very least, I don't think you have the evidence you say that more than 50% were fond of AR starts in H3 or would even prefer that today. The best you can say is that it's disputed, and at that point I would argue that a pragmatic discussion about optimizing the fun in these settings is the only worthwhile thing to do here.
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#982314 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 28 August 2017 - 12:21 AM

I'm a forger and I think any settings that include an automatic as a starting weapon are stupid.

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#981020 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 22 August 2017 - 03:03 PM

Hologram would be cool as H3-style equipment. Throw it in BTB, it doesn't hurt anything as long as it's not the catalyst for base-trait armor abilities or awful equipment ideas return alongside it. As long as it's not taking development time away from things that actually matter, I would enjoy a goofy way to toy with noobs.
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#979680 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 16 August 2017 - 05:46 PM

I have no idea if Boyo is genuine, an alt account, or merely an extremely successful troll. I just know that it may be dangerous to leave uncontested some of the things he says. Call it weakness. But I believe that some semblance of order must be maintained.


‘Einstein observed that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again with the full expectation that the results are going to be different.’ 

According to some theories of quantum mechanics, getting different results with the same process is a fact of nature.

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#979646 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 16 August 2017 - 04:08 PM

yes, that's a better idea provided there isn't that delay like there is now for melees.

Speaking of.... holy shit if they axed spartan charge and got rid of the melee delay in H5 i would be so grateful Neighbor

For the people that hate stabilize, why is that? I guess i just dont see why its damaging in the same way that sprint, spartan charge etc are. I understand the argument against thrust too, even though i personally like it the logic i see against it makes sense. I just dont see the downside to stabilize?

I dislike how it works in Halo 5, allowing many jumps that really have no reason to be possible. It also adds to control scheme clutter. These things aside, I think stabilize trivializes fade-away shots to a degree.
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#979640 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 16 August 2017 - 03:49 PM

If you could shoot while thrusting you wouldn't have to choose. It's literally just a super strafe, not a super strafe that you put your gun down for.

You can call it "super strafe" or whatever you want, but here is what it is: an omnidirectional horizontal speed boost, not tied to a grounded context, regulated by a cooldown timer. Here is what that allows: enhanced combat evasiveness, or alternatively, enhanced traversal capability. Now here is the reality: not using this mechanic for evasion in a gunfight may put you at a disadvantage; also, not using this mechanic to traverse the map more quickly may put you at a disadvantage. The choice is forced by its disappearance for a short while after you use it.

Isn't the great thing about grenades that you usually have more than one of them? If someone thrusts away from your first grenade, couldn't you just throw a second?

First of all, this point almost seems like a "git gud" argument, but I'll address it. If your rationale for thrust being able to evade one grenade is that you can generally throw another, the grenades have still become less powerful--you effectively have fewer than two grenades now. This means that defensive gameplay is discouraged less. It's the equivalent of increasing base movement speed without increasing the power of the utility weapon. You could increase the starting grenade count, but that would cause its own problems.

The band-aid solution in Halo 5 is an increased explosive radius, plus some grenade magnetism, which is really odd. But let's say you balanced the grenade radius for thrust so that your ability to thrust away from an average grenade in Halo 5 is the same as your ability to strafe away from a grenade in Halo 3, for argument's sake. Now the game feels terrible because not having thrust is a death sentence even behind cover since you can't strafe away fast enough. So they decrease the radius until dodging while strafing is as viable as in Halo 3; now grenades are useless as long as you still have your thrust. So they find a middle-ground where grenades are simultaneously too weak to punish thrust users and too overbearing while your thrust is on cooldown: the worst of both worlds.

The problem thrust was trying to solve was a lack of dynamic gunplay because of a low disparity between the perfect and average kill times of the utility weapon. That was one problem with a simple solution. Now we have two, three, four problems because it got "fixed" with a non-solution.
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#979598 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 16 August 2017 - 01:58 PM

What if the only way to recharge your Thruster was to kill an enemy, would it still be cheap when everyone has one chance per encounter?

It would still create an impossible job for tuning the grenade explosion radius, be an annoying escape tool, and worsen an arbitrary decision between movement and combat.

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#979281 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 15 August 2017 - 03:46 PM

Things to consider with shield recharge rate:

1. The lethality of your game. The longer enemies take to die, the longer the recharge should be, otherwise escape becomes too easy. The less time it takes for enemies to die, the less time it should take for shields to recharge, otherwise players are too vulnerable all the time. This is why I find it a little backwards that Ce has the longest rates of any Halo game, though Ce has other unique things going for it too. The long recharge is one of the few things I find questionable about it's design.

2. The playercount it's designed around. I think long recharge makes some sense in 1v1 or 2v2 scenarios where the victim has plenty of time and space to evade enemies, while still allowing their enemy some time to hunt them down. I don't think it makes sense in 4v4 or larger where you're just sitting there for ten seconds while an enemy could be around any corner.

If the rate is too slow, the pacing of the game suffers tremendously in that there's long periods of downtime between fights. If it's too fast, the pacing also suffers in that no one ever dies.

I think I would prefer the longer shield time in CE, but any veterans, feel free to call me out if I'm spouting bs. You can get one-shot (to the head) so quickly in that game, in just two body shots or a grenade, but the difference between it and the rest of the series is that you can fairly reasonably out-pistol someone who is full-shields. Let's say you're pistoling someone and get one-shot but you manage to get behind some cover, like the bottom of OS ramp on Prisoner, a pretty common spot. Now you have two options: wait for your shields to recharge or finish the fight. Waiting takes such a long time in CE that you might as well challenge the opponent even if he had the height advantage--and I've seen good players do just that. There may be other factors at play, such as your opponents nading spawn points if they know you're hiding and your partner's on respawn, as well as potentially giving a dead random, but I think the sheer length of the shield recharge delay actually encourages you to be aggressive. I don't think it's crucial to how the game plays, but I could see how in certain situations it might be more beneficial to hide and wait for shields to recharge if it happened faster.

Now in teamshot 4v4 Halo, I'm not sure if this would ever be the case, certainly not without a highly skillful utility weapon. Because the delta between perfect and average kill times is low, challenging the opponent even in a completely even 1v1 is discouraged. I think you will always have people running away, and depending on nade strengh vs mobility, they will probably have a decent chance of getting shields back. So it might be argued that the recharge rate might as well be faster if they're going to run away anyway, just to minimize downtime. I don't know. It's a tricky subject because the root issue is the low skill disparity of the utility weapon, so every "solution" is going to suck in its own way unless that root issue is fixed. Do you increase shield recharfe delay to punish running away, or do you embrace the fact that they are always going to run away and just try to make it not boring as hell?
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#979203 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 15 August 2017 - 12:39 PM

@Kell Of Scots I'm on board with most of that, but did you actually mean to say an average of 8 major pickups for 4v4 maps? Maybe I'm just confused about what you define as "major." Because even when subtracting rockets, sniper, OS, and camo, I can't think up four different CE sniper-level weapons, and neither would I recommend that if they existed. There's a point where having that many "major" items devolves into chaos because not all of them can be reasonably contested for pickup, regardless of how competent the utility weapon is.
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#979119 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 15 August 2017 - 12:03 AM

Redundancy, while not ideal, is also not a big deal. The problem is that the redundant autos and rifles also kill faster and more easily than the starting precision weapon. Obviously it'd be better to have H1 balance instead of H3, but let's not kid ourselves and pretend that the BR, boltshot, DMR, carbine, lightrifle and suppressor, SMG, storm rifle, SAW are anything but functional clones of the magnum and assault rifle. These are all the H3 equivalent of the spiker, plasma rifle, and SMG, lacking any meaningful depth whatsoever. But now they're useful because some people think that's the lesser of the two evils. I swear this idiotic sentiment started with players in WoW and LoL whining that their favorite items/characters were becoming irrelevant because of new expansions/heros.

Here's the simple truth: as long as these weapons take less skill than the magnum, they need to kill slower. Do what you need to do. Make the BR kill on the twelfth bullet, nerf auto aim and aim assist across the board. If people want the lightrifle to be a faster kill than the magnum, it needs to be the most skillful gun in the game, assuming people are still using the sniper like a shotgun. There's no hope to cure redundancy in Halo 5, but there's a chance for the weapons to at least cease being upgrades with no trade offs.
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#979041 Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Posted by Gobias on 14 August 2017 - 02:46 PM

Hate is a strong word lol
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