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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion


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#7501   Vetoed

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 01:32 PM

Meh, at this point, I think we all know that no sprint is just the more popular / logical / balanced option in Halo... I don't think bringing up numbers or irrefutable points will do much to strike a back-and-forth discussion...

However, it was rather obvious from the get-go that sprint was in the game to stay, considering how long it would take to redo all the maps, including campaign missions (and retest them), it could lead to another MCC disaster.

Honestly, I was just for the most part interested in seeing what kind of points he'd bring up to defend it, and it was good post made with careful attention to detail and great balancing in mind. This one did stand out as a bit iffy: 

 

> On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge.

 

I don't think that's a good point to make because first off, you just don't want it as a defensive mechanic. You're not so much trading off shield recharge if you're being shot at while escaping with sprint, so this is a valid point taking into consideration that you're not being shot at.

This said, I think what we should shoot for with sprint at this point, is anything that prevents people from using it to escape battles and it should become the best that we'll get balance-wise. It should simply not work at all when you're being shot at and you're trying to start sprinting away. If that's how the speed build-up works, it should be good. If not, I want to reiterate that it should be 100% impossible to sprint away while taking incoming damage.

And while you're not taking active damage, it tends become a decent trade-off with the shield stall.


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#7502   Moa

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 01:35 PM

1. Who is Sal1ent?
2. I disagree with most of your post.
3. Salute for the post.

Josh Holmes


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#7503   Raynard

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 01:37 PM

Sprint may be a viable option in a game where attempting to sprint away can bring instant death, but in Halo when you require 3-4 shots to a player with no shields it just allows players to run away when they should be dead.
 
We've seen it happen in the past 2 titles and I've already seen it happen in Halo 5 gameplay.  Sprint gives the illusion of a fast paced game where in reality it just slows it down.
 


The changes made to sprint should fix that problem though. I'm more concerned with how Sprint affects map design.
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#7504   Bdog

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 01:52 PM

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First of all it is nice to have devs posting here. @Sal1ent and @Deez I hope you guys keep posting.

 

I don't think I'll ever be convinced about sprint though. Worst case if they keep it in I really hope that good players can easily prevent people from escaping from bad positions. Remember how awful Adrift was? With sprint it was so easy to run around and stay alive when you should have been dead.

 

Again though we were fine without sprint in the past. Lore shouldn't have any effect on multiplayer game mechanics.


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#7505   Cujjer

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 01:58 PM

I cant believe people are plus repping a post that said in alot of words," we want people to feel cool." If ideas for halo are bad we need to communicate that very clearly with the people we are giving feedback to.


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#7506   Ciutchism

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:00 PM

I cant believe people are plus repping a post that said in alot of words," we want people to feel cool." If ideas for halo are bad we need to communicate that very clearly with the people we are giving feedback to.

We are plus repping because we appreciate the post, not the points in the post. The points in the post are utter crap but now we know the reasoning (some of it) behind keeping sprint in future "Halo" games. Downvote doesn't mean disagree, it means the post adds nothing to discussion and shouldn't be there.


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#7507   shadowblind

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:00 PM

I cant believe people are plus repping a post that said in alot of words," we want people to feel cool." If ideas for halo are bad we need to communicate that very clearly with the people we are giving feedback to.

 

I think more or less people are +repping for the fact that the devs are even responding. It's a nice thing for them to do, regardless of whether we agree or not.


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#7508   Cujjer

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:02 PM

We are plus repping because we appreciate the post, not the points in the post. The points in the post are utter crap but now we know the reasoning (some of it) behind keeping sprint in future "Halo" games. Downvote doesn't mean disagree, it means the post adds nothing to discussion and shouldn't be there.

which expresses a distaste for an opinion clearer? Plus rep and rebuttal posts or a bunch of neg rep and rebuttal posts? Be clear so they cant say we don't  stand as one on an idea.

 

 

I think more or less people are +repping for the fact that the devs are even responding. It's a nice thing for them to do, regardless of whether we agree or not.

 

If your making a game with your community in mind this should be expected, not some suprising thing that we thank them for blessing us with their presence on the very rare occasion they do.


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#7509   MATCLAN

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:02 PM

Another thought about sprint that's surfaced because I'm watching the H2A tournament right now; it's more enjoyable to watch Halo without sprint. Keeping the player movement pace as a constant goes a long way to letting viewers and commentators follow the game more smoothly.

 

I think Halo 5 is doing a lot of things right, and I'm not outright opposed to the majority of the Spartan Abilities, but Sprint affects the game in such a way that any Halo game with it simply isn't as good to watch (in my opinion) than those without it. Reach would be the most visible example of how much better the game was without that one mechanic.

 

Despite adding more layers to the player's tool set and up front complexity there is still yet to be a Halo game (and I don't see H5G breaking this trend) that has the actual complexity of the original in practice. I would strongly like to see the focus be on recapturing that before adding on additional mechanics for the sake of theatrical smoke and mirrors. 

An example of doing just that would be the system for spawning power weapons in H5 - it looks like someone took the original system but made it clearer to players what's going on which is excellent. More of that, and less of things like sprint and clamber please!


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#7510   jeromesix

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:04 PM

 

Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building... When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently.

 

/Josh

 

 

Notice this guys? Same was said by Bonnie Ross a while back - Arena is only a small part of what H5 multiplayer has to offer. The beta will be Arena only but the final game is going to have some kind of Frankenstein shit in it. I wouldn't rule out perks and leveling and custom loadouts.

 

And that's all any of the casuals and noobs are going to play, and it will be a watered-down CoD/Titanfall/BF mess and ruin Halo forever.

 

Just like no one played anything but BTB in Halo 4 so it didn't matter what positive changes "Throwdown" or "Legendary Slayer" had done to them.

 

 

When we say we want CORE HALO to feel like CORE HALO we mean the main playlists, not some Arena section that most gamers will ignore. I have zero hope for Halo 5, will be the first one I don't purchase.


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#7511   aBaldGinger

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:08 PM

I can understand the immersion argument, but I don't think its true in practice. While it is theoretically more immersive for a spartan to be able to sprint, I don't feel more immersed when actually sprinting. For me, needing to press down another button to go faster, (versus simply pushing up on the thumbstick) makes movement feel clunky and unnatural. I would greatly prefer it if there was a "sprint-like" animation when moving forwards, while retaining the ability to shoot/strafe.

 

Of course, my argument is purely subjective, but at the end of the day, thats what immersion is. Its a feeling. 


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#7512   Ramirez77

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:09 PM

Notice this guys? Same was said by Bonnie Ross a while back - Arena is only a small part of what H5 multiplayer has to offer. The beta will be Arena only but the final game is going to have some kind of Frankenstein shit in it. I wouldn't rule out perks and leveling and custom loadouts.

 

And that's all any of the casuals and noobs are going to play, and it will be a watered-down CoD/Titanfall/BF mess and ruin Halo forever.

 

Just like no one played anything but BTB in Halo 4 so it didn't matter what positive changes "Throwdown" or "Legendary Slayer" had done to them.

 

 

When we say we want CORE HALO to feel like CORE HALO we mean the main playlists, not some Arena section that most gamers will ignore. I have zero hope for Halo 5, will be the first one I don't purchase.

 

I think you're reading into it too much.  Yes there might be new gametypes, but his main point was he wants the Transition from Campaign to Arena to BTB (which has always been present) to feel natural.


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#7513   ZerueLX11

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:11 PM

What can the community do... :(
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#7514   bluejay

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:16 PM

@Sal1ent

What do you think about some of the tweaks/suggestions that have been offered? Particularly the ones that are relatively easy to change and that would make a huge impact.

CE melee system, I may sound nostalgic when I say this but keep in mind I wasn't even there for CE MP and I'm fairly harsh on older halo games.

You have sprint, thruster, Spartan charge, and ground pound, all of these abilities would play well with a melee system based on momentum.

Ground pound would change depending on distance which would mean that if you were to ground pound off a skyscraper and hit someone it would do far more damage and have a larger radius than if you were to jump off a 2 story building, this would reward players for better timing because managing to hit someone from farther away would reward you with a more powerful ground pound.

sprinting would be better because if you were to let's say sprint into someone who was just strafing towards you you would have the upper hand, perhaps even increase melee distance for when sprinting that way if timed right you could destroy someone who made a bad play.

Thrusting/melee and Spartan charge are obvious, you would do more damage with these than just meleeing someone, again rewarding people who know how to use these abilities right.

Oh and being able to shoot while thrusting is another highly recommended change, not only would it be great for montages/tournaments, but it would generally mean that thrusters would have a more offensive element to them, basically making it at par with strafe.
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#7515   Osqutin

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:16 PM

Notice this guys? Same was said by Bonnie Ross a while back - Arena is only a small part of what H5 multiplayer has to offer. The beta will be Arena only but the final game is going to have some kind of Frankenstein shit in it. I wouldn't rule out perks and leveling and custom loadouts.

And that's all any of the casuals and noobs are going to play, and it will be a watered-down CoD/Titanfall/BF mess and ruin Halo forever.

Yet you ignored in their statement that they want to keep things consistent between different gamemodes & campaign.. How would loudouts & perks keep things consistent ? They could all that we know mean by arena, just the basement of Halo 5 MP, meaning 4v4 small & medium maps. And bigger MP features could be just BTB, Invasion etc with arena style gameplay in them.
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#7516   careh

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:16 PM

I don't think that's a good point to make because first off, you just don't want it as a defensive mechanic. You're not so much trading off shield recharge if you're being shot at while escaping with sprint, so this is a valid point taking into consideration that you're not being shot at.

This said, I think what we should shoot for with sprint at this point, is anything that prevents people from using it to escape battles and it should become the best that we'll get balance-wise. It should simply not work at all when you're being shot at and you're trying to start sprinting away. If that's how the speed build-up works, it should be good. If not, I want to reiterate that it should be 100% impossible to sprint away while taking incoming damage.

That's how it does work, as per the tweets.

 


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#7517   shadowblind

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:23 PM

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When we say we want CORE HALO to feel like CORE HALO we mean the main playlists, not some Arena section that most gamers will ignore. I have zero hope for Halo 5, will be the first one I don't purchase.

 

I think this is something that needs emphasizing. At the end of the day, most of the people that sprint is added in for will stop playing Halo two weeks later and buy CoD: Black Ops 3 and never look back. Which is to be expected. However, for the hardcore Halo fans, they will do the same thing, only return to the Master Chief Collection. I'll buy Halo 5 for the campaign alone, but like every single player game I buy, I will sell it on amazon as soon as it starts to bore me. I won't buy DLC like I did with Halo 2, 3, and Reach. I won't buy map packs. I'll get my money back and move on if I don't feel the online holds my interest like CoD does and Halo used to do. Because they were so different, they coexisted in my library of games (even though I've always been partial to Halo).

 

We vote with our money. The vast amount of casual gamers who expect sprint will purchase Halo 5, play it for a few weeks and go "well that was fun," and resell it without ever buying a scratch of extra content. So I guess what I'm saying is, if Halo 5 is a good shooter but not a good Halo, don't think you'll be the only one who won't be purchasing it. And even if you do, don't think you'll be the only one who'll resell it and drop the online population.

 

May seem negative, but that's what will happen if this gamble doesn't pay off, and the new market they are targeting simply doesn't attach itself like the Halo community did. And let's be very clear. Sprint and ADS (real or not) is a big, big gamble by the devs for the sustained life of Halo. 


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#7518   Str8 Kong

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:28 PM

That's how it does work, as per the tweets.

This might honestly be the best change they've made to sprint. That might automatically negate being able to run away with it.
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#7519   bluejay

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:31 PM

Josh Holmes had no obligation whatsoever to give us an explanation, he is an authoritative figure and as such his word is law, don't get me wrong I appreciate his response but don't pretend he ever had to say anything to begin with.
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#7520   RVG E Nomini

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:37 PM

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One of the fundamental goals that we start with for the game is “immersion,” which I’ll just use as shorthand for creating and maintaining an active sense of belief on the part of the player in everything that they are experiencing. This unpacks to a lot more complexity than I am going to dive into, but at the most basic level we are trying to simulate the act of a bipedal hero moving through an environment from first person perspective. We want to convince the player that this illusion is true.


As a Halo fan I love that this idea is being explored. Feeling like the master chief, like a supersoldier, is something Halo has always implied but never been able to effectively offer. This however, isn't a bad thing and I'll explain why. As a competitive Halo player, this idea scares me because like many others here, I view the clean simplicity of Halo CE's multiplayer to be the closest thing to console FPS perfection in existence. Regardless of how much I love the Halo universe and wanting a game that sufficiently represents it, the pristine gameplay of Halo CE would be the first thing to go if that actually happened. I understand you take gameplay balance seriously and that's great, but I don't feel you've adequately addressed the greatest contentions against sprint, contentions that have been brought up in this very thread:

Sprint Slows Down Gameplay
Ironically, sprint has shown that it slows down the pace of games in the halos it's featured in. This is due to several extenuating factors.

-Opponent predictability: In Halo CE-3 every player has the same max movement speed. This is a typical arena shooter mechanic that is only altered by things like power ups. What it affords you is a predictable flow of the opponent movement that allows you to predict enemy positioning with nades, rockets, snipes, clean-up shots, or close-quarters ambush attacks. With sprint players now possess an alternative super-max speed they can activate at will, so everyone on the map is moving at a terminal velocity intermittently with their normal velocity that makes it much more difficult to predict attacks and positioning because you're trying to be offensive so you can't sprint and keep up with their pace. This leads to more escapes from engagements and removes a lot of options for the person on offense, all because the person on defense pressed a button. I think that that right there (having more effective movement options while being defensive than offensive) is the most fundamentally broken aspect of the application of sprint which I will get to next.

-Dropping your weapon: In order to sprint you have to lower your weapon. You therefore cannot engage in any offensive maneuvers while chasing down other sprinting players. This creates a huge imbalance in my eyes that gives the overwhelming advantage to the player on defense. I know you're trying to balance this by turning off the shield recharge and disengaging sprint if the player gets shot while ramping up in speed. What that does in my eyes is create a meta-game of trying to keep the guy you're outshooting from sprinting away (pressing his escape button). That seems like a terrible thing for fundamentals of a game to force on players.

There are also implications from this on map movement + support play. In Halo CE I could run full speed up a ramp to secure a location while laying cover fire for a teammate. With sprint, now I have to forget covering my teammate and run up to that location before I can shoot, or I have to forget map movement and shoot until the engagement is concluded. Shooting while moving full speed is a basic Halo mechanic (no bloom, etc) that sprint fails to respect. I don't see how this can be rectified because sprint is also directional, you can't sprint backwards or sideways, this removes the ability to watch flanks for your team while sprinting.

Can you see how this slows the game down? You have to commit to movement or shooting (and this is FUNDAMENTAL now) whereas in Halo CE both were always available. You can move at max speed and not supermax speed while shooting but what I'm going to get into next tells you why that is now broken, too, because maps are designed with sprint in mind so max speed is like walking to a safe location while you're being shot at.

-Larger maps: If the intent of sprint as a feature is to speed up gameplay, then making maps larger to incorporate it seems completely counterproductive. Sight lines have to be stretched out which forces people to commit to sprinting across them, something that we've already agreed slows gameplay because you can't shoot while doing so. You now have a map reliant on the sprint mechanic for positioning instead of movement and gunfire. This creates a metagame of outsprinting other teams for position in order to then shoot from the better location instead of a constant gunfight at full speed. When the objective of Halo (as we all know) is to shoot people, this again seems counterproductive.

I also question how larger maps (even if they're considered small-scale when built with sprint in mind) fundamentally changes gun combat. On Midship in Halo 2 you only have to zoom for fights beyond the halfway point of the map, so your BR battles don't have a very extreme range. On Truth, which is something like twice as large, you're relying on a BR (or DMR I guess) to cross this much larger space. When we're talking online play, those cross map shots are nearly beyond a range worth engaging in a fight so where people were once shooting, now you just sprint to a better location to get a shot worth taking. The only successful ranged utility weapon in Halo has been the pistol from CE. If Truth is a small map in Halo 5 then utility weapons will have to feel like snipers if they were put in earlier Halos, just to accommodate the size boost.

-Disrupts motion conrol: I mean this in regards to how it feels to use a controller with Halo. In Halo CE you had one default joystick for movement, one for looking, a trigger for shooting, another for grenades, and buttons for distinct purposes. This simplicity is not preserved when you start to tag other buttons for functions that Halo CE accomplished with just one dedicated control. Having played reach and H4 with sprint, movement feels really jerky because you're always hitting an additional button to activate it and you have to accommodate losing your offensive abilities when you do it. This makes the game feel clunky to me and slows down the pace because I'm constantly switching between offense and defense and it takes extra button pushing every time that wasn't necessary with one joystick for running that was all I had to focus on. In my opinion that more brainpower dedicated to just being able to move appropriately that use to mostly be applied to combat in past Halos. More options + more controls = more chaos. Complexity arises from simplicity, it's emergent. Because this conversation is about sprint, I won't go into how this is also an issue with clamber and thrust, just know it translates to those as well.

Anyways those are my thoughts (contributed to by many members here). Believe me when I say I'm on board as a Halo fan with what your goal is, but as a competitive player I have too many concerns about how the elegance of Halos mechanics is being compromised by the desire for "realism" to be fully on board with Halo 5. I've watched a few hours of gameplay and it doesn't make me think of Halo at all. Thanks for posting your perspective @Sal1ent. Good luck.
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#7521   MrTummyTumms

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:40 PM

I was already pretty hype for the beta, but after reading Josh Holmes' post, I have no idea I'm going to be able to handle the wait for it.
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#7522   jeromesix

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:48 PM

I think you're reading into it too much.  Yes there might be new gametypes, but his main point was he wants the Transition from Campaign to Arena to BTB (which has always been present) to feel natural.

 

Perhaps, but in my defense every pessimistic thought anyone has about a coming Halo game has proven to be completely justified by the actual game that was delivered.

 

I think it's going beyond new gametypes.

 

 

 

"The beta focuses on arena, later this fall we'll talk about our full offering."

-Bonnie Ross

 

"So we want to make sure that since we're on a new platform, we're pushing it in interesting ways... Halo is different to different people.  Multiplayer guys don't agree with each other on anything, period."

-Frank O'Connor

 

"I know our audience is changing... trying to figure out the best way to cater to them"

-Frank O'Connor


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#7523   Cursed Lemon

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 03:05 PM

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@Sal1ent

 

Look, man. 

 

The very first thing that we're going to tell you is that your method of thinking is completely backwards from what needs to happen for the Halo franchise. I discussed this in the middle of a profanity-laden rant on a Bomb Planted episode when I said that the Halo series' mutliplayer is not in a state where we need to think about going forward; it is in a state where we need to think about going backward to fix the overarching problems that have nagged this series ever since the first sequel, before we even begin to think about adding new content on top of it. You're speaking about trying to create a fresh experience, but nobody at Bungie or 343 has ever communicated to us that they understand what the actual issues are that plague Halo's multiplayer and interfere with that kind of world-building attitude. 

 

First of all, stop using gameplay elements to justify your aesthetic (or the other way around, whatever). I question the need to even employ this manner of thinking outside the campaign, as Halo's mutliplayer has always been a somewhat cartoonish side aspect compared to its single-player experience. There is no immersion in LoL's multiplayer, there is no immersion in CoD's multiplayer, because when pushed to the bleeding edge of competitive play both of these games look simply ridiculous. We're not focusing on realistic callouts from our teammates' avatars (an utterly ridiculous concept to start with), we're not focused on what our Spartan should be able to do based on lore and fair portrayal of a super soldier in the future. Let me restate this for emphasis - nobody who is trying to win at Halo cares about these things. Halo is not a simulator. 

 

And before anyone even begins to bring this up, casual players do not matter in this discussion. The last two Halo games have seen massive dropoffs in both casual and competitive populations, so there is a global problem festering here, and no amount of spinning will distract anyone with a brain from that fact. Casual players had their shot to show just how into things they were with the broken gameplay elements of the last two installments that were presented so shamelessly fed to them with a silver spoon, and they dropped the ball. They don't get a say in this because they turned their backs to Halo just like the competitive community did. After getting the shaft for more than seven years, I think it's now our turn to get what we want. 

 

But getting back to the problems, Halo players do not need "fresh and interesting combat options". What we need is for the developers to understand some very basic tenets about what Halo's gameplay is made of, because this is the thing that seems to be sorely lacking. Halo is a weird arena/squad mutant hybrid baby. Initially, there was no running or standing bloom. You can run at full speed zoomed in our out, there is palpable vertical access, and there are weapons on map. But then you have reloading, recharging shields, a max of two weapons, and grenades. In addition, there are some weird - but extremely important - aspects to Halo that lie somewhere in between, such as the medium running speed, the concept of a utility weapon plus the idea that you are supposed to hit the grand majority of  your shots with it, and the specific resolution of kill times which lies squarely in the middle of squad-shooter-instant-death and the long, drawn out jousting matches of arena combat. 

 

Now, let's get in depth on that for a second. Arena shooters have very extrapolated gunplay exchanges, and yet...squad shooters are the biggest culprits of camping. Do you notice how interesting that is? The mobility, the kill times, the weapon access and mechanics, these all have a multi-tiered interplay that produces results which are not necessarily the most intuitive. The point of me saying this is that Halo does not have a comfortable resting place between these two concepts. On the contrary, it sits on a very delicate fulcrum between them, where any minor adjustment can have drastic consequences for the gameplay. Take a look at Halo 2, for example. This is a game littered with problems, but the one thing that broke combat for years afterward was the lack of power that the battle rifle had compared to the pistol. It took literally more than twice as long to kill an opponent with perfect shooting, but if you were shooting someone in the back or at an unfortunate angle, you now had to blow an entire clip just to kill that one enemy. That, along with the change in map design philosophy, completely altered the way that Halo was played...for the worse, as most of us would tell you. 

 

The only actual gameplay element that has been brought up so far is sprint. We say sprint is broken, you say that sprint enables creativity. Well, first of all, that would be true if Halo was actually a game with different classes that had incredibly distinct mobility differences, but that's not the case and never has been. Halo will never be a class shooter, no matter how much anyone tries to force it, as long as it still vaguely plays like Halo. So we're left with every Spartan awarded the ability to burn out and take off across the battlefield. As I mentioned in a post a while ago, this has many detrimental effects on gameplay:

 

  • Sprint influences map design by pushing developers to make larger maps, which is inappropriate for Halo's core gameplay
  • It creates a large area of "no man's land" on a map where nobody is actually expected to have a gunfight
  • It also creates areas that are just segues into different parts of the map, e.g. the hallways on Adrift - those are not ideal fighting locations (see Chill Out for proper map-making inspiration)
  • Sprint deconstructs the spawning system because players are able to get back in the battle too quickly, especially with a straight-shooting weapon like the DMR and lots of open spaces
  • Sprint ruins map geometry by creating gaps that can only be traversed with sprint-powered jumps; jumping and shooting is kind of important in Halo
  • Most significantly, it causes the Spartan to lower their weapon - at no point in a Halo game should a person be unable to shoot their gun unless they're holding the objective (lol, flagnum)
  • It downplays the vertical aspect of Halo hugely, creating maps that are horizontally gigantic but vertically insignificant

This is probably not even the entire list of problems that sprint brings to the table. But the thing is, man...I don't even have to think that long or that hard to come up with a list of reasons why sprint is bad news for this game series. The lack of consequential logic here baffles me to no end, as does the complete absence of respect for Halo's fundamental gameplay. 

 

Look, if you want to turn Halo into something completely different, then fine, that's your prerogative and your right as the people who have their legal fingers around the franchise. At that point, however, asking us our feelings becomes completely irrelevant. You guys know how to write Halo's programming, we know how to win tournaments. We push this game and exploit it and abuse it, and as a result we are very acquainted with all the seemingly trivial minutia and we know how things are going to play out when you've got eight people in a match who want to beat the other guys. Asking us to warm up to deviant changes in Halo's gameplay style, when they are clearly not intended to cater to us, is a fruitless endeavor. You can consider us an outlier in the grand scheme of things for selling your game, and that's fine. I would argue, first of all, that the tournament scene is the single biggest element of post-release exposure for the Halo franchise, and it had always been that way before we finally threw in the towel. But even beyond that, letting us influence the development of a Halo game (and I mean in a MEANINGFUL way) shows a very strong commitment to forging a creative product that is fundamentally sound, not just something that satisfies the shareholders. 

 

Nobody here knows precisely how the politics work up there in 343 studios. Nobody knows who makes the real decisions, nobody knows if you've got black suits with sunglasses and earpieces peering over your shoulders, or if a bunch of corporate hacks are the ones calling the shots. We just know Halo, and you know what, we're pretty good at it. We're a valuable source of information about how to make this game function right on the bullet-to-helmet level. 

 

I ask with as much patience as I have in me that you don't come here with the intention of calming the revolt. I want you to understand what we're saying - even and ESPECIALLY if you can't make what we want happen. 


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#7524   MATCLAN

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 03:14 PM

Nomini and Lemon posting the good stuff today. Thanks for being so articulate, guys.


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#7525   shadowblind

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 03:18 PM

snip

 

That was beautiful. Would rep again if I could.


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