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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion


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72273 replies to this topic

#72251   Hard Way

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 07:12 PM

We need a progression system so fucking badly.
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#72252   Mr Grim

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 07:23 PM

Hitreg so bad, can't even blow up barrels consistently now.

qiBTB3s.gif

paging Dr. @Brad Pitt
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#72253   Mad_L3pr3chaun

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 08:36 PM

Maybe you should try shooting for the blue glowy bit of the barrel next time.  :)


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#72254   Landonio

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 08:48 PM

Hitreg so bad, can't even blow up barrels consistently now.

 

qiBTB3s.gif

Can't wait for Dersky and Ace to expose you, scrub. Git gud.


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#72255   Aphex Twin

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 08:53 PM

paging Dr. @


Hillary and Soros clearly doctored that gif.
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#72256   Mr Grim

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 09:05 PM

Hillary and Soros clearly doctored that gif.

silly libtards don't realize the deep state is trying to manipulate hard working moral Christian Americans into hating h3. I think it's fairly obvious at this point. Sad.
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#72257   Shekkles

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Posted Yesterday, 01:16 AM

We need a progression system so fucking badly.


What's that? You want more REQ packs?
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#72258   OG Nick

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Posted Yesterday, 01:50 AM

What a night.
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#72259   Mhunterjr

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Posted Yesterday, 08:45 AM

I think it would benefit from a scoring change. It should reward time survived, not kills. They should put out a zone every 60 seconds in various (non random) positions that award bonus points, as a means to pull ahead.

Currently, since they award kills, it makes zombies not want to play the way they should play. They’ll wait out their whole round if they start zombie. Or once they have a group, there’s no incentive to play to the way an efficient group of zombies should play. You need a guy to pull attention and sacrifice himself, and currently the scoring system punishes the guy that makes that necessary play. If all the zombies were incentivized to kill the humans as quickly as possible instead of with as few deaths as possible, this would change.

I think all that sounds good.

But I think the more infection is refined into a "proper gametype", the more charm is lost from the original, honor-code, community gametype..

It wasn't really about scoring. It was just about getting laughs while trying to survive, and then switching teams and getting laughs from the other side.

I like your idea, but I don't think it's Infection.
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#72260   Hard Way

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Posted Yesterday, 12:22 PM

I think all that sounds good.

But I think the more infection is refined into a "proper gametype", the more charm is lost from the original, honor-code, community gametype..

It wasn't really about scoring. It was just about getting laughs while trying to survive, and then switching teams and getting laughs from the other side.

I like your idea, but I don't think it's Infection.


And I can appreciate that sentiment too. When Infection was just a custom game in Halo 2, that’s how we played it. But the second a gametype enters matchmaking, it becomes about winning. You can try to say it’s about fun and the spirit of the game, but the bottom line is that people want to win. If the gametype is in matchmaking, it has to be able to support playing to win without falling apart. Currently Infection does not.
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#72261   darkstar

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Posted Yesterday, 12:30 PM

And I can appreciate that sentiment too. When Infection was just a custom game in Halo 2, that’s how we played it. But the second a gametype enters matchmaking, it becomes about winning. You can try to say it’s about fun and the spirit of the game, but the bottom line is that people want to win. If the gametype is in matchmaking, it has to be able to support playing to win without falling apart. Currently Infection does not.

Just like how CTF and Assault have 1flag and 1bomb variants, or how territories has variants like 3plots, I don’t see why Infection can’t have subgametypes with different methods of scoring, etc. The diversity of gametypes was at its highest with H3 and Reach and has for some reason been decreasing since then. Shit, even Blops4 barey has any gamemodes in matchmaking (like what happened to sabotage, headquarters and demolition?? those were some of my favorite gametypes.
One of my biggest hopes for Infinite is every gametype from CE-H5 to be in it at launch.
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#72262   Snipe Three

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Posted Yesterday, 01:15 PM

Just like how CTF and Assault have 1flag and 1bomb variants, or how territories has variants like 3plots, I don’t see why Infection can’t have subgametypes with different methods of scoring, etc. The diversity of gametypes was at its highest with H3 and Reach and has for some reason been decreasing since then. Shit, even Blops4 barey has any gamemodes in matchmaking (like what happened to sabotage, headquarters and demolition?? those were some of my favorite gametypes.
One of my biggest hopes for Infinite is every gametype from CE-H5 to be in it at launch.

If Infinite doesn't release fully furnished with arena and BTB maps, every gametype you'd expect, forge, theater, a full campaign with scoring, skulls, achievements, co-op, split screen, LAN, dedicated servers that work, progression systems that make sense, custom games, and a custom game browser after a likely 5 year gap in games then they will have failed spectacularly and hopefully nobody buys it


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#72263   Mhunterjr

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Posted Yesterday, 02:30 PM

And I can appreciate that sentiment too. When Infection was just a custom game in Halo 2, that’s how we played it. But the second a gametype enters matchmaking, it becomes about winning. You can try to say it’s about fun and the spirit of the game, but the bottom line is that people want to win. If the gametype is in matchmaking, it has to be able to support playing to win without falling apart. Currently Infection does not.


See I actually think that sentiment is one of the flaws of Halo from a social standpoint, and with matchmaking in general.

Matchmaking is about bringing like minded people together. Period. Those people MAY want to compete and win, it's important to have a system in place that allows for that. But they may also just want a goofy gametypes, or a passive gametype, or a cooperative gametype, and currently there is no solution for that.

There's no reason that a matchmaking system can't be used to bring people together who just want to socialize. When you look at creative a phenomenon like Roblox, a community member can make a gametype that is about winning, and players can matchmake into it. Another community member can make a gametype that just about goofing off, and players can still matchmake into it. Players don't have to create a custom lobby, and hope like minded people stumble into it. And they don't have to wait for the developer to curate a Playlist and hope that they are proactive about putting community favorite maps and settings into it.

Honestly, I think the entire dev-controlled social Playlist idea needs to go the way of the dodo. Players should be able rent/host a server- load it with the maps and gametypes they enjoy and anyone who joins that server should be in a matchmaking pool that features the hosts selections.

The community would decide how Infection is designed and played. If the scoring based version ends up with the most populated servers, so be it. If three more classic version is more popular, so be it. But the developer need to get out of the way.
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#72264   Hard Way

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Posted Yesterday, 05:59 PM

See I actually think that sentiment is one of the flaws of Halo from a social standpoint, and with matchmaking in general.

Matchmaking is about bringing like minded people together. Period. Those people MAY want to compete and win, it's important to have a system in place that allows for that. But they may also just want a goofy gametypes, or a passive gametype, or a cooperative gametype, and currently there is no solution for that.

There's no reason that a matchmaking system can't be used to bring people together who just want to socialize. When you look at creative a phenomenon like Roblox, a community member can make a gametype that is about winning, and players can matchmake into it. Another community member can make a gametype that just about goofing off, and players can still matchmake into it. Players don't have to create a custom lobby, and hope like minded people stumble into it. And they don't have to wait for the developer to curate a Playlist and hope that they are proactive about putting community favorite maps and settings into it.

Honestly, I think the entire dev-controlled social Playlist idea needs to go the way of the dodo. Players should be able rent/host a server- load it with the maps and gametypes they enjoy and anyone who joins that server should be in a matchmaking pool that features the hosts selections.

The community would decide how Infection is designed and played. If the scoring based version ends up with the most populated servers, so be it. If three more classic version is more popular, so be it. But the developer need to get out of the way.


That all sounds great until you see the absolute garbage that player controlled servers put out. Spend an hour on Far Cry 5 MP and see if you come across a SINGLE map/loadout combo that is at all suitable for mass consumption. Look at player-hosted servers on BF4 with the 24/7 same map over and over with 1000% tickets. Look at the server list on Halo PC where it’s nothing but BG CTF or Rockets only. Look at the absolute dirt in the H5 custom browser. People suck shit at hosting content, and the dumbest garbage gets popular, and once it’s popular, it never fucking changes.

I mean Christ, Infection is the perfect example of something refusing to change for the better. It’s cool that it got put in matchmaking so people can play it easily, but it’s current rule set has serious flaws in a matchmaking environment. If you are going to track stats and award XP for the winner of the game, then the gameplay needs to hold up when people play for the win. If the current holdout-style gameplay absolutely had to stay, time survived is still a much better scoring system than kills, because it incentives the zombies to try. Period. That’s an objective truth.

There needs to be a carefully curated, high quality experience that the dev uses to showcase how their game plays. If they just make a game and rely on the community to make stuff for it, you get Far Cry 5, and it you haven’t played it, it’s a fucking dumpster fire. The general public cannot be trusted to generate a high quality experience. There are simply too many stupid people.
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#72265   OG Nick

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Posted Yesterday, 06:23 PM

UGC is hosting weekly CE 2v2s and H2 2v2s
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#72266   darkstar

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Posted Yesterday, 06:50 PM

UGC is hosting weekly CE 2v2s and H2 2v2s

UGC already doing more good for Halo than ESL did.
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#72267   darkstar

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Posted Yesterday, 07:49 PM

Also, gungoose ctf is the worst thing to ever happen. We really need a fucking veto option.
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#72268   Riddler

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Posted Yesterday, 08:59 PM

UGC is hosting weekly CE 2v2s and H2 2v2s

sign up fellas. Its free.
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#72269   Squatting Bear

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Posted Yesterday, 09:07 PM

sign up fellas. Its free.

 

And there's no prize pool whatsoever!  


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#72270   Brad Pitt

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Posted Yesterday, 09:13 PM

 The general public cannot be trusted

This.


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#72271   Mhunterjr

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Posted Today, 02:16 AM

That all sounds great until you see the absolute garbage that player controlled servers put out. Spend an hour on Far Cry 5 MP and see if you come across a SINGLE map/loadout combo that is at all suitable for mass consumption. Look at player-hosted servers on BF4 with the 24/7 same map over and over with 1000% tickets. Look at the server list on Halo PC where it’s nothing but BG CTF or Rockets only. Look at the absolute dirt in the H5 custom browser. People suck shit at hosting content, and the dumbest garbage gets popular, and once it’s popular, it never fucking changes.

I mean Christ, Infection is the perfect example of something refusing to change for the better. It’s cool that it got put in matchmaking so people can play it easily, but it’s current rule set has serious flaws in a matchmaking environment. If you are going to track stats and award XP for the winner of the game, then the gameplay needs to hold up when people play for the win. If the current holdout-style gameplay absolutely had to stay, time survived is still a much better scoring system than kills, because it incentives the zombies to try. Period. That’s an objective truth.

There needs to be a carefully curated, high quality experience that the dev uses to showcase how their game plays. If they just make a game and rely on the community to make stuff for it, you get Far Cry 5, and it you haven’t played it, it’s a fucking dumpster fire. The general public cannot be trusted to generate a high quality experience. There are simply too many stupid people.

In a world where minecraft and roblox exist how can we argue that any game that relies on community creations will Only feature shittiness? Would there be a lot of shit servers? Absolul. But players would subscribe to the servers they trust.

The developer is incapable of being responsive enough to curate a Playlist that meets the ever changing demands of the community, that should be clear after nearly 1.5 decades with online halo.

The Halo community has some really good Forgers and personalities and sub communities, What would actually happen is that popular and established content creators and sites would create/promote the most popular and well curated servers.

The dev would still have official servers front and center . We just wouldn't have to rely on them to get popular community, gametypes, settings and maps into matchmaking. More importantly, they could observe what is actually working well in custom servers, and quickly update official servers accordingly. It would dramatically improve 343s curation process

look at how they historically manage Playlists. We still don't have magnum start BTB despite it being heavily requested on EVERY halo forum. Action Sack has had garbage since it's inception, despite the emergence of some actual good minigames. Evolved and No Sprint settings never got a shake. The list goes on. These items would be addressed by the community on day one.

Can everyone in the general population be trusted? Hell Nah. But i'd sub to a Team Beyond curated server in a heart beat. Same with Multilockon server. Or a magnum BTB server. Or an Evolved server. And if a pro player or steamer recommended a particular server or joined one on stream , I'd check it out.

PS: the big issue with Far Cry 5 Arcade is that the randomized system they used to force people to try other people's content actively prevents the community from coalescing around quality content. I can't just jump into a "Bestmapguys" server and start matchmaking with his handpicked selections. Instead I get randomly thrust into shit little Tommy made as a joke.

PS: yes time survived is a better scoring system for infection. In forge, Is there currently a way to calculate that for each individual?
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#72272   Basu

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Posted Today, 05:39 AM

That all sounds great until you see the absolute garbage that player controlled servers put out. Spend an hour on Far Cry 5 MP and see if you come across a SINGLE map/loadout combo that is at all suitable for mass consumption. Look at player-hosted servers on BF4 with the 24/7 same map over and over with 1000% tickets. Look at the server list on Halo PC where it’s nothing but BG CTF or Rockets only. Look at the absolute dirt in the H5 custom browser. People suck shit at hosting content, and the dumbest garbage gets popular, and once it’s popular, it never fucking changes.

I mean Christ, Infection is the perfect example of something refusing to change for the better. It’s cool that it got put in matchmaking so people can play it easily, but it’s current rule set has serious flaws in a matchmaking environment. If you are going to track stats and award XP for the winner of the game, then the gameplay needs to hold up when people play for the win. If the current holdout-style gameplay absolutely had to stay, time survived is still a much better scoring system than kills, because it incentives the zombies to try. Period. That’s an objective truth.

There needs to be a carefully curated, high quality experience that the dev uses to showcase how their game plays. If they just make a game and rely on the community to make stuff for it, you get Far Cry 5, and it you haven’t played it, it’s a fucking dumpster fire. The general public cannot be trusted to generate a high quality experience. There are simply too many stupid people.


This is certainly true but if they
1) Charge rental fees for servers it stops the low-level trolls (and helps fund DLC without shitty P2W microtransactions)
2) improve the server browser already. There's no need for it to be as shitty as H5s browser. Battlefields server browser allows one to exactly avoid the issue of one-map 1000 ticket idiots, although I imagine it's a bitch to use on console
3) a subscription/favorite server system that also displays the number of subs a server has could help find good servers fast.


However, such a system should compliment social playlist, not replace them. Add the top 10 mini games to action sack every two weeks. Check which forge maps are taking off and add them to MM. Stuff like that.
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#72273   Cursed Lemon

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Posted Today, 09:42 AM

The dev would still have official servers front and center . We just wouldn't have to rely on them to get popular community, gametypes, settings and maps into matchmaking. More importantly, they could observe what is actually working well in custom servers, and quickly update official servers accordingly. It would dramatically improve 343s curation process 

 

I agree that custom servers are a necessary component for any game that purports to be modern and feature-packed, but the reality here is that it won't improve 343's curation process specifically because the servers will be 95% action sack-y nonsense. Remember, competitive Halo is a small fraction of the total Halo-playing population - when 343 looks at what's being played, they're not going to see standard slayer gametypes with the radar turned off, they're going to see wacky BTB garbage that looks a lot more like Warzone. 


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#72274   Mhunterjr

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Posted Today, 10:19 AM

I agree that custom servers are a necessary component for any game that purports to be modern and feature-packed, but the reality here is that it won't improve 343's curation process specifically because the servers will be 95% action sack-y nonsense. Remember, competitive Halo is a small fraction of the total Halo-playing population - when 343 looks at what's being played, they're not going to see standard slayer gametypes with the radar turned off, they're going to see wacky BTB garbage that looks a lot more like Warzone.

It really wouldn't matter what 95% of the servers are If they design the system using logistical modern social networking standards. People subscribe to what they like, get recommendations based on other people liking the same thing. Content creators maintain their audience by interacting with them and appealing to their desire . In this case it would mean keeping their playlist up to date with good content.

You also have logical protections against spam- 24hr servers would be premium. Servers would need a min # of subs to be featured. Disliked servers won't show in your feed, etc

The main purpose of the system would be for allowing people to build sub-communities, in-game, around the types of games they like to play - this should be the goal of "social" in a game where UGC is a core element.

As far as competitive is concerned - I like to dream that the ranked matchmaking Playlist would do a service to the community. But I also, think a competitive custom servers would be popular among competitive minded players. It would be a great way to test UGC maps and proposed settings for competition. Yes it's a niche. But it's a big enough niche that we shouldn't have to have the ranked Playlist hyjacked in order to collect data.
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