Jump to content



Welcome to Beyond Entertainment


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to Beyond Entertainment, like most online communities you must register to post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of Beyond Entertainment by signing in or creating an account.
  • Share your thoughts on the Halo franchise with our active community
  • Talk about upcoming Halo tournaments and conventions
  • Join Beyond Premium for extra forum features
  • Send personal messages to other forum members
  • Stay up-to-date on our: Twitter, Facebook and Youtube
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion


  • Please log in to reply
71781 replies to this topic

#71726   SMARTAN 427

SMARTAN 427
  • Member
  • 644

  • 657 posts

Posted 06 November 2018 - 03:59 PM

@ I think you need to fix the quote a bit, lol.

Anyway, I am not arguing against the utility weapon as the predominant core gameplay focus. I just do like autos having a bit more bite to them.

Yeah, H4 Turbo AR FTW.
  • 1

#71727   Moa

Moa

    EAT THIS

  • Premium
  • 44111

  • 18,846 posts

Posted 07 November 2018 - 12:57 AM

Custom game browser in this update?

Match Composer
  • 0

#71728   Fixtheaiming343

Fixtheaiming343
  • Member
  • -4

  • 73 posts

Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:04 AM

@ I think you need to fix the quote a bit, lol.

Anyway, I am not arguing against the utility weapon as the predominant core gameplay focus. I just do like autos having a bit more bite to them.

Yeah, H4 Turbo AR FTW.

yeah it’s a little annoying going back on mobile and fixing w
Quotes so I’m not bothering. But autos should be powerful. I don’t think autos in h5 are op in their current state.
  • 0

#71729   Riddler

Riddler
  • Member
  • 3140

  • 4,620 posts

Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:26 AM

Autos are balanced in h5 but it makes it boring. You wont see someone miss with an AR do those exciting reversals happen less.
  • 0

#71730   ChieftaiNZ

ChieftaiNZ
  • Member
  • 2845

  • 1,211 posts

Posted 07 November 2018 - 02:18 PM

*
POPULAR

In todays episode of "What the fuck, who makes these decisions"

 

Because a dedicated slayer playlist wasn't enough.

 


  • 10

#71731   Basu

Basu
  • Member
  • 4844

  • 2,329 posts

Posted 07 November 2018 - 05:33 PM

So much for "343 gets it". We're back to where we were two years ago.


  • 0

#71732   OG Nick

OG Nick

    Aspiring Game Designer

  • Member
  • 2700

  • 1,690 posts

Posted 07 November 2018 - 05:41 PM

In todays episode of "What the fuck, who makes these decisions"

 

Because a dedicated slayer playlist wasn't enough.

 

This is so far beyond stupid I can't comprehend it. 

 

There is LITERALLY a playlist for only slayer. It's hard enough to get good objective games because of all the afking and quitting. I'm not just annoyed at this, it's killing what little drive I have to play Halo even more somehow. 

 

Edit: You know what's even worse. Matchcomposer comes out in like a week. So if people only wanted to play Halo 3 default slayer ad nauseam they can, but now they can do it in ranked Arena matchmaking too! How fun!


  • 8

#71733   Hard Way

Hard Way

    Good Guy

  • Premium
  • 8049

  • 4,501 posts

Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:08 PM

 

 

Edit: You know what's even worse. Matchcomposer comes out in like a week. So if people only wanted to play Halo 3 default slayer ad nauseam they can, but now they can do it in ranked Arena matchmaking too! How fun!

This. If kids getting only slayer in their game of choice was such a problem, the solution is right around the corner. But no, instead they need to take unnecessary steps and create new problems that will persist long after Match Composer comes out.

This is a much bigger problem in H1, where the TS games are about 4 minutes long. So now, the vast majority of games in H1 Arena will take about as long as it takes to microwave a couple Hot Pockets. Neat.

I feel like the player base is as much to blame for this as 343. Technically 343 is adhering to demands. They're looking at waypoint posts and quitting data. If the players would just search the correct playlist for what they want, or I don't know, learn how to fucking play objective games, this wouldn't be an issue.

The other thing that gets overlooked way too often is how shitty default obj settings are. Maybe if someone cleaned up the nonsense in those gametypes, people might not hate obj so much. IF ONLY THERE WAS SOMEONE THAT WAS BOTH WILLING AND ABLE TO GIVE THEM AN EXACT BLUEPRINT OF EVERYTHING THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE FOR EVERY GAME, COMPLETELY FREE OF CHARGE......


  • 5

#71734   Fixtheaiming343

Fixtheaiming343
  • Member
  • -4

  • 73 posts

Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:10 PM

This. If kids getting only slayer in their game of choice was such a problem, the solution is right around the corner. But no, instead they need to take unnecessary steps and create new problems that will persist long after Match Composer comes out.

This is a much bigger problem in H1, where the TS games are about 4 minutes long. So now, the vast majority of games in H1 Arena will take about as long as it takes to microwave a couple Hot Pockets. Neat.

I feel like the player base is as much to blame for this as 343. Technically 343 is adhering to demands. They're looking at waypoint posts and quitting data. If the players would just search the correct playlist for what they want, or I don't know, learn how to fucking play objective games, this wouldn't be an issue.

The other thing that gets overlooked way too often is how shitty default obj settings are. Maybe if someone cleaned up the nonsense in those gametypes, people might not hate obj so much. IF ONLY THERE WAS SOMEONE THAT WAS BOTH WILLING AND ABLE TO GIVE THEM AN EXACT BLUEPRINT OF EVERYTHING THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE FOR EVERY GAME, COMPLETELY FREE OF CHARGE......

you should realize most wont read it. Excuse number 1: I have a family I can’t afford to get good at obj
Excuse number 2: I don’t want to sweat
Excuse number 3: I just want to relax.
  • 0

#71735   Basu

Basu
  • Member
  • 4844

  • 2,329 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 05:16 AM


The other thing that gets overlooked way too often is how shitty default obj settings are. Maybe if someone cleaned up the nonsense in those gametypes, people might not hate obj so much. IF ONLY THERE WAS SOMEONE THAT WAS BOTH WILLING AND ABLE TO GIVE THEM AN EXACT BLUEPRINT OF EVERYTHING THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE FOR EVERY GAME, COMPLETELY FREE OF CHARGE......


That would require actually listening to feedback and maybe even reading forum posts. It's much easier to just ignore that stuff and look at the matchmaking data to draw your own conclusions to make bad decisions based on that.
  • 1

#71736   Basu

Basu
  • Member
  • 4844

  • 2,329 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 03:36 PM

In this episode of "shit menke says":

 

 

So from my POV, H5 core IS Super Fiesta. If our players would rather Fiesta everything and play that instead, I'm all for it.

 

 

I don't think it's a mistake to run BTSF at all. We knew it would affect BTB's pop, considered it carefully, but were fine with that, and still are. We don't mind that BTB suffered for it because it was an overall win, and still is.Still see no reason to support BTB outside of its own merits.What is Halo's essential core can change title to title, and change based on player preference within each title.

 

 

Basically, if BTB goes head to head with BTSF and loses, then it loses, and the winner stays. Why would we remove something a ton of people like for something that's never been super popular in H5.

 

 

I don't accept the argument that keeping certain experiences around because they were once "core" and might bring people back. That's all speculation with no data to back it, and no pop to support those lists.Even if at some point H5 turned into only Super Fiesta and Team Arena, I would be 100% fine with that.

 

To think that at one point this dude was supposed to be the savior of Halo because he brought ranks back.


  • 6

#71737   Hard Way

Hard Way

    Good Guy

  • Premium
  • 8049

  • 4,501 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 05:05 PM

In this episode of "shit menke says":

 

 

To think that at one point this dude was supposed to be the savior of Halo because he brought ranks back.

 

Yikes. 343 should put a leash on that guy. Talk about reinforcing all the negative views people have about 343. This really reveals a lack of respect for the game.


  • 5

#71738   Apoll0

Apoll0

    Weekend LAN party? oh wait...

  • Member
  • 10878

  • 5,020 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 05:29 PM

Yikes. 343 should put a leash on that guy. Talk about reinforcing all the negative views people have about 343. This really reveals a lack of respect for the game.

 

I'm split on this.  The real answer is FIX YOUR FUCKING GAME SO STANDARD IS ACTUALLY DESIRABLE TO PLAY. "Normal" and "Traditional" gametypes and playlists are struggling because all the gimmicky shit in Halo 5 has worn on people and made the core gameplay way more of a chore than it is fun. People can basically only have fun in gametypes where they really, truly don't give any shits about performance or winning and can blame RNG for anything that happens.

 

The other side of that is: There is no way in hell they are going to put any resources into actually updating Halo 5. So in that regard, maybe they should cater to the people that are actually left? I feel cheap even saying that, but now that Halo 5 comp is over are there going to be any players left that care about competition, performance, getting better, winning or fairness still playing the game? I don't think so.  The key is, they need to recognize and acknowledge this.  They need to accept that the default, standard Halo 5 experience was not great.  If they think that the crazy RNG gametypes are the only populated ones left because the core player preferences have changed that drastically, and not because the core experience needs to be better, deeper and more classic, Halo is doomed.


  • 3

#71739   Silos

Silos

    Resident Speed Runner

  • Premium
  • 2742

  • 1,275 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 05:53 PM

I talked about this with Basu the other day, but I interpret Josh differently than you guys. I think he is one of the most honest looks into how 343 works, and even if I don't like it I really appreciate the insight.

More people playing super fiesta means they move in the direction of appealing to that audience. Also they don't mind dropping traditional Halo if it means more people are interested and playing the game, if those people leave they'll work to introduce a new mode. I don't necessarily like it but I understand it.

Basu made this post in another thread, but I'm going to pull it in here:

"Finally booted up H5 and it all makes sense: They put BTB Fiesta at the top 3 of the playlists and real BTB is at the bottom. Good ol' 343 generating all this unbiased data to draw conclusions from :kappa:.

Also this playlist just gives people random access to all REQ weapons and vehicles that is usually locked behind a paywall in WZ. Which is another huge pull factor. Also the novelty aspect: BTB hasn't been updated in months (years?) while this playlist is fairly fresh. But go ahead Menke, BTB Fiesta is clearly the better playlist and real BTB needs to go."

This is the part that bothers me about the 343 approach, give BTB a complete refresh and put it at the top of the list and the super fiesta variant at the bottom and see what happens. Giving BTB new maps is probably too much effort for the team to invest in, but at least change the order of the variants in the menu and see what's up. Or even put BTB and the super fiesta variant in the same playlist, almost anything would be better than ripping traditional out completely.
  • 4

#71740   Riddler

Riddler
  • Member
  • 3140

  • 4,620 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 06:48 PM

I talked about this with Basu the other day, but I interpret Josh differently than you guys. I think he is one of the most honest looks into how 343 works, and even if I don't like it I really appreciate the insight.

More people playing super fiesta means they move in the direction of appealing to that audience. Also they don't mind dropping traditional Halo if it means more people are interested and playing the game, if those people leave they'll work to introduce a new mode. I don't necessarily like it but I understand it.

Basu made this post in another thread, but I'm going to pull it in here:

"Finally booted up H5 and it all makes sense: They put BTB Fiesta at the top 3 of the playlists and real BTB is at the bottom. Good ol' 343 generating all this unbiased data to draw conclusions from :kappa:.

Also this playlist just gives people random access to all REQ weapons and vehicles that is usually locked behind a paywall in WZ. Which is another huge pull factor. Also the novelty aspect: BTB hasn't been updated in months (years?) while this playlist is fairly fresh. But go ahead Menke, BTB Fiesta is clearly the better playlist and real BTB needs to go."

This is the part that bothers me about the 343 approach, give BTB a complete refresh and put it at the top of the list and the super fiesta variant at the bottom and see what happens. Giving BTB new maps is probably too much effort for the team to invest in, but at least change the order of the variants in the menu and see what's up. Or even put BTB and the super fiesta variant in the same playlist, almost anything would be better than ripping traditional out completely.

yeah btb has never been focused on in halo 5. fiesta is just a gimmick. the same shit happened on mcc. ce is a broken game and the 2v2 playlist was at the bottom. it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Here guys, here is halo 5 btb (btw no effort went into it at all). Oh you guys aren't playing this shit we put out? Y'all must not like btb so we'll remove it. How they don't see this logic is baffling. 


  • 4

#71741   Fixtheaiming343

Fixtheaiming343
  • Member
  • -4

  • 73 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 06:53 PM

I'm split on this. The real answer is FIX YOUR FUCKING GAME SO STANDARD IS ACTUALLY DESIRABLE TO PLAY. "Normal" and "Traditional" gametypes and playlists are struggling because all the gimmicky shit in Halo 5 has worn on people and made the core gameplay way more of a chore than it is fun. People can basically only have fun in gametypes where they really, truly don't give any shits about performance or winning and can blame RNG for anything that happens.

The other side of that is: There is no way in hell they are going to put any resources into actually updating Halo 5. So in that regard, maybe they should cater to the people that are actually left? I feel cheap even saying that, but now that Halo 5 comp is over are there going to be any players left that care about competition, performance, getting better, winning or fairness still playing the game? I don't think so. The key is, they need to recognize and acknowledge this. They need to accept that the default, standard Halo 5 experience was not great. If they think that the crazy RNG gametypes are the only populated ones left because the core player preferences have changed that drastically, and not because the core experience needs to be better, deeper and more classic, Halo is doomed.

THIS!
Halo 5s gameplay is over saturated with gimmicks and non fun gameplay. It’s weapon balance is utter shit, it didn’t need the rework it was given(all wwe wanted was an aim assist nerf on the fucking Br and dmr(the way they nerfed the dmr was ********) .
It’s not simplistic and halo gamers, in fact gamers in general have stated their disapproval of advanced movement, all you need to do is look at cod bo4. Best cod since bo2, sure you can debate this is due to the popular mode BO, but it’s individual gameplay isn’t getting shit on. It doesn’t feel like a chore, that’s the thing. In h5 you need to know all these trick jumps just to be good/decent, you need to be able to deal with the atrocious aiming. Now most casuals might not notice it, or do they? Many casuals would talk how they could stay away from halo for months and can’t him the broadside of a barn, or go from game to game(cod,OW,BF, TF2) and aim fine but the moment they were on h5 something was up. They didn’t take fun or competitive players wants into account. They listened to the stupid kids “I’m a super soldier, I want to feel like one” and this ruined the game, big time.
  • 2

#71742   Basu

Basu
  • Member
  • 4844

  • 2,329 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 07:02 PM

I talked about this with Basu the other day, but I interpret Josh differently than you guys. I think he is one of the most honest looks into how 343 works, and even if I don't like it I really appreciate the insight.

More people playing super fiesta means they move in the direction of appealing to that audience. Also they don't mind dropping traditional Halo if it means more people are interested and playing the game, if those people leave they'll work to introduce a new mode. I don't necessarily like it but I understand it.

Basu made this post in another thread, but I'm going to pull it in here:

"Finally booted up H5 and it all makes sense: They put BTB Fiesta at the top 3 of the playlists and real BTB is at the bottom. Good ol' 343 generating all this unbiased data to draw conclusions from :kappa:.

Also this playlist just gives people random access to all REQ weapons and vehicles that is usually locked behind a paywall in WZ. Which is another huge pull factor. Also the novelty aspect: BTB hasn't been updated in months (years?) while this playlist is fairly fresh. But go ahead Menke, BTB Fiesta is clearly the better playlist and real BTB needs to go."

This is the part that bothers me about the 343 approach, give BTB a complete refresh and put it at the top of the list and the super fiesta variant at the bottom and see what happens. Giving BTB new maps is probably too much effort for the team to invest in, but at least change the order of the variants in the menu and see what's up. Or even put BTB and the super fiesta variant in the same playlist, almost anything would be better than ripping traditional out completely.

 

The issue with Menke is that he has no idea what Halo is supposed to play like as he is still a fairly "new guy" to the franchise. He did some great stuff with the matchmaking and ranking system and I agree the insight he gave us into these topics has been very interesting. But putting him in charge of playlist management and basically also community manager (where the fck is the real community manager in all this?) is a bad call IMO. He only looks at numbers and doesn't see the bigger picture as I pointed out in the post you quoted.

 

And his whole "data" approach to this is commendable on one hand (I'm also from a science background so I understand where he's coming from with this), but the data he's looking at is clearly not comparable and biased towards Fiesta for like 10 glaringly obvious reasons. I'm also getting the impression that 343 is pushing him or at the very least not stopping him from gutting real BTB because it's always be a thorn in their side. If they sucessfully remove BTB it will make it much easier to ship Halo Infinite with just 4v4 and Warzone, leaving BTB behind for good.


  • 3

#71743   Petty

Petty

    maps

  • Premium
  • 1371

  • 930 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 08:31 PM

Can't believe Australians are still region locked.

 

The game is dead here.  I can only find games by partying up with people from the US.


  • 0

#71744   Fixtheaiming343

Fixtheaiming343
  • Member
  • -4

  • 73 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 10:50 PM

The issue with Menke is that he has no idea what Halo is supposed to play like as he is still a fairly "new guy" to the franchise. He did some great stuff with the matchmaking and ranking system and I agree the insight he gave us into these topics has been very interesting. But putting him in charge of playlist management and basically also community manager (where the fck is the real community manager in all this?) is a bad call IMO. He only looks at numbers and doesn't see the bigger picture as I pointed out in the post you quoted.

And his whole "data" approach to this is commendable on one hand (I'm also from a science background so I understand where he's coming from with this), but the data he's looking at is clearly not comparable and biased towards Fiesta for like 10 glaringly obvious reasons. I'm also getting the impression that 343 is pushing him or at the very least not stopping him from gutting real BTB because it's always be a thorn in their side. If they sucessfully remove BTB it will make it much easier to ship Halo Infinite with just 4v4 and Warzone, leaving BTB behind for good.

warzone is what they want because they need a micro seller. In all honesty war zone is better if you’re a btb guy. For me it’s the maps, need to be done better and the idea of Warzone needs to change. Warzone was sold as this epic battle between players and AI. The problem with the AI is they’re stupid as fuck and they’re only compensated by making them bullet sponges. How I and I’ll assime a lot of people, thought the AI would have their own base be coming after other players. Perhaps something like battlefront 1(2004) AI worked. On the map Tatooine tusken raiders were their own faction and fun fact you could even capture their command post. It was fun. The tuskens fought both droids and clones or rebels.
They were continuously spawned until you decided to do something about it.
Warzone still has its extreme flaws. But in my own opinion the biggest flaws are the AI redundancy and the maps design. They’re designed around the middle base and this causes bullshit camping. The problem is this middle base is too “powerful” whatever team gets this Base always wins(or at least 90% of the time). Don’t even get me started hoe no one seems to use their reqs unless in a party.
Edit: when I say it’s better if you’re a btb guy I mean more of big map, more people etc.
  • 0

#71745   ChieftaiNZ

ChieftaiNZ
  • Member
  • 2845

  • 1,211 posts

Posted 09 November 2018 - 04:47 AM

Can't believe Australians are still region locked.

 

The game is dead here.  I can only find games by partying up with people from the US.

 

343  GETS  IT  GUYS  EVERYTHING  WILL  BE  FINE! :intel:  :intel:  :intel:  :simms:  :weback:  :Toxic:  :walshy:


  • 3

#71746   RVG E Nomini

RVG E Nomini
  • Member
  • 1020

  • 500 posts

Posted 09 November 2018 - 10:50 AM

343 reminds me of kitchen nightmares where all those chefs tell Gordon Ramsay their food is 10/10 and the customers love it when it's all frozen reheated garbage and there are no customers.
  • 5

#71747   Hard Way

Hard Way

    Good Guy

  • Premium
  • 8049

  • 4,501 posts

Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:15 PM

warzone is what they want because they need a micro seller. In all honesty war zone is better if you’re a btb guy. For me it’s the maps, need to be done better and the idea of Warzone needs to change. Warzone was sold as this epic battle between players and AI. The problem with the AI is they’re stupid as fuck and they’re only compensated by making them bullet sponges. How I and I’ll assime a lot of people, thought the AI would have their own base be coming after other players. Perhaps something like battlefront 1(2004) AI worked. On the map Tatooine tusken raiders were their own faction and fun fact you could even capture their command post. It was fun. The tuskens fought both droids and clones or rebels.
They were continuously spawned until you decided to do something about it.
Warzone still has its extreme flaws. But in my own opinion the biggest flaws are the AI redundancy and the maps design. They’re designed around the middle base and this causes bullshit camping. The problem is this middle base is too “powerful” whatever team gets this Base always wins(or at least 90% of the time). Don’t even get me started hoe no one seems to use their reqs unless in a party.
Edit: when I say it’s better if you’re a btb guy I mean more of big map, more people etc.

 

Warzone's biggest problem was the way base capping worked. The fact that you had to have the enemy base 100% vacant of enemy presence just to move the meter was fucking asinine. If you just change base capping to Battlefield style, where a simple majority will start moving the meter, and the greater the majority the faster the cap, the mode is instantly 10x better.


  • 0

#71748   Basu

Basu
  • Member
  • 4844

  • 2,329 posts

Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:25 PM

Warzone's biggest problem was the way base capping worked. The fact that you had to have the enemy base 100% vacant of enemy presence just to move the meter was fucking asinine. If you just change base capping to Battlefield style, where a simple majority will start moving the meter, and the greater the majority the faster the cap, the mode is instantly 10x better.

 

That plus their horrid design. Way too many chokepoints and places to hide for one douche to prevent the enemy from capping it. Oh and the fact all maps use the same bases, makes shit soo repetitive. The home bases are even worse in this regard. Two huge doors that somehow make it too easy to spawntrap people but also makes it nigh impossible to get into the base to take out the core.

 

Add to that the map design that is just laughably bad. 90% of matches are decided within the first two minutes, because as soon as that middle base is on lockdown the other time has no way of coming back. The REQ system is also at fault for this, but the fact defenders can spawn right next to the base while attackers have to cross miles and miles of no man's land to even get to it makes it mostly impossible to steal that base from a half-decent team.

 

Warzone could've been a half-decent experience despite the whole P2W nonsense, but they really shit the bed when it came to implementation.


  • 3

#71749   Basu

Basu
  • Member
  • 4844

  • 2,329 posts

Posted 09 November 2018 - 06:10 PM

Not a fan of your racist tirades against Australian players dude. I have to agree though that Achilles and the farming coupled with H5's atrocious matchmaking drove a lot of people out of the franchise.


  • 0

#71750   ChieftaiNZ

ChieftaiNZ
  • Member
  • 2845

  • 1,211 posts

Posted 09 November 2018 - 08:57 PM

before I say what I want to say,lol knew some people here would hate what I said(Australians go to hell, I don’t like you)

But you’re right the design was horrible, let’s not even talk about spawns. Many argued this exact thing you stated. Allow me to clarify.
People argued that one person shouldn’t be able to prevent a bases capture. It was just too BS’Y. It basically said “fuck you teamwork”. The only Warzone map that was well designed was apex, because they had that 3rd entryway/exit which was the tower. It meant you could pull off a flank and get out of the base/in it. Think how cool it of been if the covenant or promethions captured bases? You couldn’t just spawn kill the shit out of your opponents. The biggest flaw around warzone ksnt even the mode itself, it was the LACK of party matching. Remember when Achilles was released? That brought a shit ton of farming, which ruined every single/duo players experience and those people quit halo 5. 343 just couldn’t figure how to reduce farming, when they’re the ones who fucking encouraged it. When you make it something must be grinded in order to obtain it you’ve just fucked your fan base over. For some reason 343 probably thought this would of been like h2 where everyone had a mic and communicated(lol in h2 “give me the sniper you fuking N***er” I swear the trash talk in that game was lit AF. All in all warzones flaws were inner and outer.
P.S I don’t like Australians because of how cruel most of you are to others.

 

Excuse me what the fuck. 


  • 7