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Halo Infinite Discussion


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1497 replies to this topic

#701   Larry Sizemore

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:47 PM

I still don't understand your PoV here.  You are saying in its default form, speedboost is basically useless and so is damage boost, therefore combining them (well kinda... since there is more detail to Haste than just combining Halo's versions of damage boost and speed boost) would also be useless?  That doesn't make sense.

 

It makes perfect sense. 0 + 0 = 0

 

its a new thing to halo so you have no idea really and neither do I. 

 

YOU might have no idea, but I do.

 

BUT we do have the example from Doom where its far from useless. 

 

Doom isn't Halo.

 

You're also saying that the only way to make either one of those existing mechanics useful would be to stack them multiple times when in reality there is a middle ground there. 

 

No, there isn't. 

 

Not to mention i would already argue that damage boost is useful but the damage increase per bullet aspect totally breaks power weapons.  Turning the sniper into Norfang and giving rockets a nuclear sized kill zone is not the same as letting a player shoot them a little faster.  Thats an execution problem that a Haste type powerup fixes.  And speedboost would already be useful if everybody didn't have a speedboost button on their controller.  Its useless because sprint is a thing, so lets blame the right thing here.  Its not Speedboost's fault that the ass-cancer that is sprint exists.

 

Speed boost being useless has nothing to do with sprint.

 

Again, there is no harm adding a bunch of shit to a halo game like this.  If it ends up sucking... just don't put it on maps. its not changing a core, ever present mechanic. its basically a variable that designers can add to their maps that doesn't fuck with the actual design of said map. If it works, use it, if not, don't.

 

You don't build a tight, rock-solid sandbox like Halo CE by just throwing a bunch of shit in the kitchen sink. That's how Halo 4 and Halo 5 were handled, and they're both terrible. That's not a coincidence. Do I have to link Hardy Lebel's blog again?

 

If someone really wants to create a powerup like this, let them do it on their own with a custom powerup. All the trait modifications are already available, except for RoF which can easily be added.

 

bold

 

Haste isn’t comparable to damage boost though. Damage boost reduces the number of shots it takes to kill someone. This means you can be less accurate, and still get kills. Haste allows you to shoot faster- but the number of shots to kill doesn’t change- so you still need to have good aim.

 

The end result is the same; damage output increases. In a powerful sandbox like Halo 1, that turns the player into a walking nuke. Nobody wants to play against that.


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#702   Sitri

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:48 PM

Unreal Tournament’s “Jump Boots” is the correct way to handle this. 3 uses. Hit jump while in the air already for a massive skyward thrust. It was fantastic and it would be awesome in Halo.

Limited uses for a powerup like that sound a lot better than being put on a timer.


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#703   Gobias

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 11:59 PM

Limited uses for a powerup like that sound a lot better than being put on a timer.


Definitely more immersive.
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#704   Mhunterjr

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 06:54 AM

bold


The end result is the same; damage output increases. In a powerful sandbox like Halo 1, that turns the player into a walking nuke. Nobody wants to play against that.

The end result literally isn’t the same. One is a damage boost. One boosts fire rate. Two completely different properties.

The former minimizes execution skill, the the latter maintains it. The former allows for more kills per clip, the latter does not.
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#705   Apoll0

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:09 AM

bold

 

 

 

Saying shit with confidence, does not make it true "0 + 0 = 0", "YOU don't but i do" (what a ridiculous statement because its literally impossible), "No, there isn't [a middle ground]" is all ridiculous, binary bullshit.  Speedboosts efficacy is ABSOLUTELY tied to the existence of sprint. Nobody said it was a great powerup to begin with, just that in a no-sprint halo game it wouldn't be "useless", even if its never really worth organizing your whole team to contest it.  You missed this in a different post on this topic apparently but I do agree that just throwing shit at it is a bad way to make a game which is why they need to have the core weapon and power up set nailed down before any of this.  Frankly, if it takes more than a few weeks to get the rocket, sniper, DMR/Magnum (pick one), BR, PP etc down once they get the underlying architectural necessities done, we have much bigger problems.  At this point, getting those weapons working well should not be hard.


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#706   Basu

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:08 AM

Speedboost is in H2A btw, on the Relic remake.


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#707   NavG123

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:02 AM

Speedboost is in H2A btw, on the Relic remake.

Only because the competitive community was so adamant about having a Relic remake to supplement the pool of competitive maps that 343 felt the need to add something special to really make up for MCC.
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#708   Basu

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 03:55 PM

Only because the competitive community was so adamant about having a Relic remake to supplement the pool of competitive maps that 343 felt the need to add something special to really make up for MCC.

 

We are so lucky to have them as a dev. To not only give us a free map, but a free map that is also just perfect for competitive play and has an insanely stable framerate, just wow.


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#709   Larry Sizemore

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:10 PM

The end result literally isn’t the same. One is a damage boost. One boosts fire rate. Two completely different properties.

The former minimizes execution skill, the the latter maintains it. The former allows for more kills per clip, the latter does not.

 

So damage output is increased, then. Unless they're a bad player.

 

You guys get so lost in your little "yeah but it takes skill!" circlejerk that you completely lose sight of the end result and the mechanic's actual impact on the game. Pretty sure this is how Halo 5 was conceived. "Who gives a shit if spartan charge is AIDS to play against, it's so skillful!"

 

Saying shit with confidence, does not make it true "0 + 0 = 0", "YOU don't but i do" (what a ridiculous statement because its literally impossible), "No, there isn't [a middle ground]" is all ridiculous, binary bullshit.  Speedboosts efficacy is ABSOLUTELY tied to the existence of sprint. Nobody said it was a great powerup to begin with, just that in a no-sprint halo game it wouldn't be "useless", even if its never really worth organizing your whole team to contest it.

 

Not a single argument in this whole tirade, just a bunch of "NO U"s.

 

Explain how the basic speed boost from H4/H5 is useful without sprint in the sandbox. Provide examples.


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#710   Basu

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 03:12 AM

So damage output is increased, then. Unless they're a bad player.

 

You guys get so lost in your little "yeah but it takes skill!" circlejerk that you completely lose sight of the end result and the mechanic's actual impact on the game. Pretty sure this is how Halo 5 was conceived. "Who gives a shit if spartan charge is AIDS to play against, it's so skillful!"

 

Lol dude please. There is a significant difference between :

  • a damage boost that gives the ability 1hk to with melees, grenades, sniper body shots and nonsense like 4sk body shot BRs, buffing autos to CoD levels of TTK etc.
  • a RoF increase where you still have to hit all your shots AND it burns through ammo twice as fast if you spam body shots with the sniper

Of course the end result is similar: you get melted pretty much instantly if a dude that knows what he's doing is using the powerup correctly. But he can't completely cheese it and shoot you in the toe for the 1hk, if you're the better player you can still easily outplay him.

It's powerful, but doesn'completely t break the game. It can be countered. It's still a powerup, so it should give an advantage, but not excessively.

 

The comparison to spartan charge is asinine. Spartan charge is the result of doubling down on the sprint+melee cheese, coupled with an even stronger melee and insane amounts of lunge and magnetism. No one (besides cretins like Kevin Franklin and reiku78) would ever say that's a skillful ability.


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#711   Sitri

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:14 AM

Lol dude please. There is a significant difference between :

  • a damage boost that gives the ability 1hk to with melees, grenades, sniper body shots and nonsense like 4sk body shot BRs, buffing autos to CoD levels of TTK etc.
  • a RoF increase where you still have to hit all your shots AND it burns through ammo twice as fast if you spam body shots with the sniper

Of course the end result is similar: you get melted pretty much instantly if a dude that knows what he's doing is using the powerup correctly. But he can't completely cheese it and shoot you in the toe for the 1hk, if you're the better player you can still easily outplay him.

It's powerful, but doesn'completely t break the game. It can be countered. It's still a powerup, so it should give an advantage, but not excessively.

 

The comparison to spartan charge is asinine. Spartan charge is the result of doubling down on the sprint+melee cheese, coupled with an even stronger melee and insane amounts of lunge and magnetism. No one (besides cretins like Kevin Franklin and reiku78) would ever say that's a skillful ability.

Damage boosts in general doesn't have that much of a place in Halo. It's a powerup that makes the holder kill an enemy faster in a straight 1v1 scenario, very similarly to Overshield. The difference between these is that OS becomes worse over time between taking damage or its decay. A Haste powerup disrupts the cadence of every weapon, which disrupts the muscle memory people have for the majority of the time they don't have Haste.

Powerups that mess with how the game functions are ill-suited to Halo; Camo and OS don't modify anything beyond your visibility and shield amount, respectively.


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#712   Larry Sizemore

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:22 AM

Lol dude please. There is a significant difference between :

  • a damage boost that gives the ability 1hk to with melees, grenades, sniper body shots and nonsense like 4sk body shot BRs, buffing autos to CoD levels of TTK etc.
  • a RoF increase where you still have to hit all your shots AND it burns through ammo twice as fast if you spam body shots with the sniper

Of course the end result is similar: you get melted pretty much instantly if a dude that knows what he's doing is using the powerup correctly. But he can't completely cheese it and shoot you in the toe for the 1hk, if you're the better player you can still easily outplay him.

 

So damage output is increased, then. Unless they're a bad player.

 

It's powerful, but doesn'completely t break the game. It can be countered. It's still a powerup, so it should give an advantage, but not excessively.

 

 
You guys get so lost in your little "yeah but it takes skill!" circlejerk that you completely lose sight of the end result and the mechanic's actual impact on the game. Pretty sure this is how Halo 5 was conceived. "Who gives a shit if spartan charge is AIDS to play against, it's so skillful!"
 
(It's like you didn't even read anything I said.)
 

The comparison to spartan charge is asinine. Spartan charge is the result of doubling down on the sprint+melee cheese, coupled with an even stronger melee and insane amounts of lunge and magnetism. No one (besides cretins like Kevin Franklin and reiku78) would ever say that's a skillful ability.

 

 

JRebdq.gif

 

I'm not comparing the mechanic to spartan charge, I'm suggesting that the logic behind the creation of spartan charge (and the rest of Halo 5's bullshit, while we're at it) was every bit as half-baked as the logic behind this Haste idea.


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#713   Larry Sizemore

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:24 AM

Didn't we used to be able to split up quotes on here by typing enter a few times? What happened to that?


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#714   Mhunterjr

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:25 AM

So damage output is increased, then. Unless they're a bad player.

You guys get so lost in your little "yeah but it takes skill!" circlejerk that you completely lose sight of the end result and the mechanic's actual impact on the game. Pretty sure this is how Halo 5 was conceived. "Who gives a shit if spartan charge is AIDS to play against, it's so skillful!"

It has nothing to do with being a good/bad player.

Potential Damage output is increased when a player picks up a sniper rifle... does that mean we shouldn’t have sniper rifles? No. Because a potential damage output increase alone isn’t a logical metric for whether certain pickup should exist. There’s something to be said about how a pickup influences map movement, how it can sway a match , and it’s skill requirement.

I agree, we should be talking about the impact on the game. But that’s not what you are doing. You are arbitrarily discrediting a concept because it would allow a player to deal damage more quickly if he execute’s properly- which is a pickup concept that has been a part of quality, competitive halo since day one. The idea that Damage Boost and Haste would have the same impact is patently false.

Where pickups tend to fall apart is when they remove an element of skill or strategy- and haste does neither. It would probably be better than OV and Camo in that regard. your Spartan Charge analogy makes NO SENSE, because no one argues Spartan Charge is skillful.
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#715   Apoll0

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:10 AM

So damage output is increased, then. Unless they're a bad player.

 

You guys get so lost in your little "yeah but it takes skill!" circlejerk that you completely lose sight of the end result and the mechanic's actual impact on the game. Pretty sure this is how Halo 5 was conceived. "Who gives a shit if spartan charge is AIDS to play against, it's so skillful!"

 

 

Not a single argument in this whole tirade, just a bunch of "NO U"s.

 

Explain how the basic speed boost from H4/H5 is useful without sprint in the sandbox. Provide examples.

I think you're just unwilling to accept that detail actually matters.  everybody on the other side of this argument from you has had actual, logical reasoning to back up their ideas.  You're the one that is sticking to dogma and just saying "this is true because i say so".

 

Holy shit dude are you really playing this game?  I didn't think i needed to hold your hand with why being able to move faster than anybody else in a match is an advantage.... In a game with speedboost and no sprint, you would be the only player on the map that could get from any point to any other point faster than anybody else.  That could be anything involving moving an objective, general added unpredictability, being a harder target to hit, extra escapability. In a game with sprint, that is still a little true, but the delta is much smaller making it not worth going out of your way or contesting for it at all.

 

And i want to be very clear here.  I am not advocating that speedboost is a "good" powerup.  Even in a non-sprint game it's not going to turn the tide of a match like Camo or OS can and it introduces a subset of the problems that sprint does, albeit at a much smaller scale.  But i am saying that your insistence that its useless, which is a basis for your original argument, is patently false.


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#716   Larry Sizemore

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:13 AM

It has nothing to do with being a good/bad player.

 

Ummmmm...

 

The end result literally isn’t the same. One is a damage boost. One boosts fire rate. Two completely different properties.
 
The former minimizes execution skill, the the latter maintains it. The former allows for more kills per clip, the latter does not.

 

 

...your own words. So if the difference in end result between a straight damage boost and increased rate of fire has nothing to do with being a good/bad player, what the hell does it have to do with?

 

Potential Damage output is increased when a player picks up a sniper rifle... does that mean we shouldn’t have sniper rifles? No. Because a potential damage output increase alone isn’t a logical metric for whether certain pickup should exist. There’s something to be said about how a pickup influences map movement, how it can sway a match , and it’s skill requirement.

 

 

No, because the sniper rifle is one weapon that is tuned to perform a specific role (long-distance combat) and struggles outside of that role.

 

Haste would increase the damage output for all weapons. Across the board. If you're not trolling and you honestly don't see the problem with that then I don't know what to say. Other than you clearly Hate Halo Because of X.

 
I agree, we should be talking about the impact on the game. But that’s not what you are doing. You are arbitrarily discrediting a concept because it would allow a player to deal damage more quickly if he execute’s properly- which is a pickup concept that has been a part of quality, competitive halo since day one. The idea that Damage Boost and Haste would have the same impact is patently false.

 

 

ALL I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS ENTIRE FUCKING TIME IS THE FUCKING IMPACT ON THE GAME. YOU ARE THE ONE IGNORING THE IMPACT ON THE GAME AND CLINGING TO THE YEAH-BUT-IT-TAKES-SKILL EXCUSE.

 

CHRIST ALMIGHTY.

 
Where pickups tend to fall apart is when they remove an element of skill or strategy- and haste does neither. It would probably be better than OV and Camo in that regard.

 

 

A juggernaut powerup doesn't remove any element of skill or strategy. Oh god my sides.

 

your Spartan Charge analogy makes NO SENSE, because no one argues Spartan Charge is skillful.

 

 

Outside of 343 Industries, you mean.

 

Spartan charge is their binky just like Haste is your binky.


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#717   Larry Sizemore

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:32 AM

I think you're just unwilling to accept that detail actually matters.  everybody on the other side of this argument from you has had actual, logical reasoning to back up their ideas.  You're the one that is sticking to dogma and just saying "this is true because i say so".

 

tumblr_m2dozw5iDN1qe15x3.gif

 

Holy shit dude are you really playing this game?  I didn't think i needed to hold your hand with why being able to move faster than anybody else in a match is an advantage.... In a game with speedboost and no sprint, you would be the only player on the map that could get from any point to any other point faster than anybody else.  That could be anything involving moving an objective, general added unpredictability, being a harder target to hit, extra escapability. In a game with sprint, that is still a little true, but the delta is much smaller making it not worth going out of your way or contesting for it at all.

 

 

I said provide examples. Explain how the standard speed boost is useful without sprint in practice. When you consider the diverted path the player has to take to actually go and get the powerup, how much ground have they really gained on a moving objective relative to everyone else? How much extra "escapability" do they really have in a game where everyone is (usually) running around with a precision weapon with a scope?

 

It certainly wasn't useful in H2A. 

 

And i want to be very clear here.  I am not advocating that speedboost is a "good" powerup.  Even in a non-sprint game it's not going to turn the tide of a match like Camo or OS can and it introduces a subset of the problems that sprint does, albeit at a much smaller scale.  But i am saying that your insistence that its useless, which is a basis for your original argument, is patently false.

 

 

So who's the one sticking to dogma and saying "this is true because I say so" again?


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#718   Basu

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:35 AM

A Haste powerup disrupts the cadence of every weapon, which disrupts the muscle memory people have for the majority of the time they don't have Haste.
Powerups that mess with how the game functions are ill-suited to Halo; Camo and OS don't modify anything beyond your visibility and shield amount, respectively.


I think this is what actually makes it interesting. You'd have to learn the cadence for every weapon with and without haste, making it actually skillful (omg he used that word again) to still get a perfect with the utility for example.

I also fail to see how a speed/RoF increase for one player "messes with the way the game functions" to a greater degree than one that literally turns a dude invisible or gives him 3x shield capacity.

I can see the criticism for cheesy objective plays, but for the average 1v1 scenario I'd say Camo and OS (and literally every power weapon for that matter) change the game to far greater extent than one player having timescale=1.2 enabled.
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#719   Sitri

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:12 AM

I think this is what actually makes it interesting. You'd have to learn the cadence for every weapon with and without haste, making it actually skillful (omg he used that word again) to still get a perfect with the utility for example.

I think you're getting hung up on theoretical "skill" that would be added to the game with such a powerup. Any over-complicated hypothetical item or mechanic can be added to the game with the defense of it making the game more "skillful". It's been tried many times before to varying degrees of success. If it truly would increase the skillgap of players by such a degree, just adjust base player traits across the board to match Haste.

I also fail to see how a speed/RoF increase for one player "messes with the way the game functions" to a greater degree than one that literally turns a dude invisible or gives him 3x shield capacity.

When I pick up a gun, I expect it to function a certain way. Previously in Halo, none of the powerups affected how your player or weapons controlled. Camo and Overshield don't mess with how a player moves or shoots, while the benefit provided by OS diminishes as time passes.

I can see the criticism for cheesy objective plays, but for the average 1v1 scenario I'd say Camo and OS (and literally every power weapon for that matter) change the game to far greater extent than one player having timescale=1.2 enabled.

I don't agree with this at all when comparing Haste to Camo. While the Camo guy may get first shot, his cover is blown as soon as this happens and he essentially returns to being a normal player at that point. Haste persists throughout an entire encounter, giving the player better damage output along with better evasion to reduce the amount of damage he is taking on his own.

Power weapons (ideally) have the capacity of being punished for their misuse. Hypothetically, a person hitting 100% of their noscopes will destroy an entire team with their Sniper without having to reload, but this player still moves and takes the same amount of damage as anyone else in the game.

Haste overtakes Overshield's niche entirely. Where the latter only makes a player more resistant, the former does something functionally similar while also buffing the player's damage output.


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#720   Apoll0

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:25 AM

tumblr_m2dozw5iDN1qe15x3.gif

 

 

I said provide examples. Explain how the standard speed boost is useful without sprint in practice. When you consider the diverted path the player has to take to actually go and get the powerup, how much ground have they really gained on a moving objective relative to everyone else? How much extra "escapability" do they really have in a game where everyone is (usually) running around with a precision weapon with a scope?

 

It certainly wasn't useful in H2A. 

 

 

So who's the one sticking to dogma and saying "this is true because I say so" again?

 

Holy shit dude, i gave you a list of examples that make a lot of fucking sense. You are choosing to ignore them.  Its not my fault that the only games where speedboost tried to be prevalent also had sprint with the only real example being Relic on H2A, that nobody fucking plays because its a non-performant PoS map. It's not exactly a logical leap to take what we already know and deduce that 1) Speedboost is not a terribly powerful powerup regardless 2) in sprint games its redundant horseshit and 3) in non-sprint games it has decent efficacy but isn't  worth going out of your way or setting up for. This. Is. Not. Hard.


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#721   Hard Way

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:31 AM

Someone explain how it can work so well in Doom and Quake, but it wouldn’t work in Halo. I think that’s the first hurdle that needs to be overcome if you’re gonna try to shit on something we’ve seen work in similar games.

Any replies that just say “Doom isn’t Halo” will be dismissed as the lazy non-arguments that they are. Tell me why.
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#722   Basu

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:35 AM

I think you're getting hung up on theoretical "skill" that would be added to the game with such a powerup. Any over-complicated hypothetical item or mechanic can be added to the game with the defense of it making the game more "skillful". It's been tried many times before to varying degrees of success. If it truly would increase the skillgap of players by such a degree, just adjust base player traits across the board to match Haste.

 

 

 

It's not exactly theoretical though. This powerup exists (my experience comes from DOOM, but it exists in other games) and yes the new cadence throws you off the first time you use it, but it can be learned again, which is IMO a sign of skill. You can't just increase RoF across the board to make it more skillful, the skill comes from being able to handle the weapon at two speeds. (yes this is a small part of the skill gap but it exists)

 

 

When I pick up a gun, I expect it to function a certain way. Previously in Halo, none of the powerups affected how your player or weapons controlled. Camo and Overshield don't mess with how a player moves or shoots, while the benefit provided by OS diminishes as time passes.

I don't agree with this at all when comparing Haste to Camo. While the Camo guy may get first shot, his cover is blown as soon as this happens and he essentially returns to being a normal player at that point. Haste persists throughout an entire encounter, giving the player better damage output along with better evasion to reduce the amount of damage he is taking on his own.

 

Meh, to me just the reduction in aim assist camo causes is enough to throw me off way more than a dude strafing faster. Not saying you're wrong, this is probably just a matter of perspective. Camo also requires you to search for the dude with nades, spraying autos and the like, while with haste you still just shoot him 4 times in the head and he drop.

 

 

Power weapons (ideally) have the capacity of being punished for their misuse. Hypothetically, a person hitting 100% of their noscopes will destroy an entire team with their Sniper without having to reload, but this player still moves and takes the same amount of damage as anyone else in the game.

 

But if he had sniper and OS the game would be broken? I don't get it.

 

 

Haste overtakes Overshield's niche entirely. Where the latter only makes a player more resistant, the former does something functionally similar while also buffing the player's damage output.

 

Not necessarily, as long as it's balanced correctly. Haste has multiple values that can be tweaked (movement speed, RoF increase, acceleration multiplier, reload speed etc.) For example, I would never make Haste let the player shoot so fast that OS gets canceled out.


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#723   Teapot

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:36 PM

Ideally how long would Haste last?

 

I feel one minor thing we are neglecting is the lack of regenerating health/shields in arena games. While the RoF is increased which would help offensively, what prevents someone from just running away to regain their shields with Haste? I mostly agree with Sitri's points here, they seem similar to how I felt the last time this was brought up.

 

I can just imagine if Haste was in Halo 2 with Dual Wielding... I would be forced to learn the TTK of each scenario which already seemed like it was widely different depending on the weapons. Sure, a "skill" is a "skill" but that's not the one I want to put emphasis on.


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#724   Sitri

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:38 PM

Someone explain how it can work so well in Doom and Quake, but it wouldn’t work in Halo. I think that’s the first hurdle that needs to be overcome if you’re gonna try to shit on something we’ve seen work in similar games.

Any replies that just say “Doom isn’t Halo” will be dismissed as the lazy non-arguments that they are. Tell me why.

I don't know a ton about team Quake, but Haste is not there in duels. As for Doom 4, that game's multiplayer is already full of stupid gimmicks, that's just adding wood to the fire.

 

 

the skill comes from being able to handle the weapon at two speeds.

Sounding a lot like Bloom here. Granted, this is nonrandom but it's a similar argument. I don't think pulling the trigger faster necessarily makes the game more skillful.

 

Meh, to me just the reduction in aim assist camo causes is enough to throw me off way more than a dude strafing faster. Not saying you're wrong, this is probably just a matter of perspective. Camo also requires you to search for the dude with nades, spraying autos and the like, while with haste you still just shoot him 4 times in the head and he drop.

Camo does throw you off, but that's the point of it and it's the only benefit you have. Used poorly, it's going to get you killed.

But if he had sniper and OS the game would be broken? I don't get it.

If he had both, he controlled two different item spawns.

 

Not necessarily, as long as it's balanced correctly. Haste has multiple values that can be tweaked (movement speed, RoF increase, acceleration multiplier, reload speed etc.) For example, I would never make Haste let the player shoot so fast that OS gets canceled out.

It doesn't invalidate OS, but there is a bunch of overlap. When the two are simplified to how they effect the game, they both grant the user a better chance of winning a 1v1. Damage Boost offers a similar benefit, which is why I'm also against it.


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#725   Larry Sizemore

Larry Sizemore
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Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:43 PM

Holy shit dude, i gave you a list of examples that make a lot of fucking sense. You are choosing to ignore them.

 

So you can't come up with any specific game situations where speed boost is actually useful. Otherwise you'd have provided them instead of typing out yet another paragraph full of impotent sputtering.

 

And by the way, the next time you make sense on here will be the very first.

 

Its not my fault that the only games where speedboost tried to be prevalent also had sprint with the only real example being Relic on H2A, that nobody fucking plays because its a non-performant PoS map.

 

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That's not Relic.

 

It's not exactly a logical leap to take what we already know and deduce that 1) Speedboost is not a terribly powerful powerup regardless 2) in sprint games its redundant horseshit and 3) in non-sprint games it has decent efficacy but isn't  worth going out of your way or setting up for. This. Is. Not. Hard.

 

 

Now you're saying speed boost is useless. So I'm right. Are we done?

 

Someone explain how it can work so well in Doom and Quake, but it wouldn’t work in Halo. I think that’s the first hurdle that needs to be overcome if you’re gonna try to shit on something we’ve seen work in similar games.

Any replies that just say “Doom isn’t Halo” will be dismissed as the lazy non-arguments that they are. Tell me why.

 

Explain why it works so well in Doom and Quake.


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