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Law Breakers Discussion


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34 replies to this topic

#26   QuietMan

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:11 PM

I'm just saying the gun play "feels" like CoD or even Titanfall. And the nerfed/watered down special E/Q/Shift abilities feel like OW.


I would not say the gun play "feels" like DOOM, or Quake Champions, or Counterstrike, or Unreal, of Battlefield, because it doesn't even remotely feel like any of those.
But the Gunplay does feel like CoD and Titanfall to me. No doubt about it.
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#27   Hitman

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:38 PM

I'm just saying the gun play "feels" like CoD or even Titanfall. And the nerfed/watered down special E/Q/Shift abilities feel like OW.


I would not say the gun play "feels" like DOOM, or Quake Champions, or Counterstrike, or Unreal, of Battlefield, because it doesn't even remotely feel like any of those.
But the Gunplay does feel like CoD and Titanfall to me. No doubt about it.

 

Well, you're opinion is wrong lol. I have no idea if you just played the generic soldier for a few games and concluded that but your opinion is wrong. You're the first person Ive seen who's said they played the game to say the gunplay feels like CoD.

 

LawBreakers is not Overwatch.
 
 
It seems you can’t release a class-based shooter with distinct heroes these days without it being compared to Overwatch. Nobody can deny Overwatch’s influence on the genre, but it’s a lot easier to see its effects on a game like Paladins than LawBreakers. So let’s get this out of the way first: LawBreakers is nothing like Overwatch.
 
It doesn’t clone its mechanics, focus, modes, aesthetics, or execution. The only thing the two have in common is that they both feature a colourful cast of characters. The same way a MOBA or – you know, Team Fortress 2 have had for years.
 
So what is it? LawBreakers is an arena shooter first and foremost. It’s unique in that its heroes aren’t balanced around set roles and different health pools, so much as they are around the different skills they require from the player.
 
In simple terms, all of LawBreaker’s nine heroes (eight in the beta) can damage and kill enemies with ease. The difference is that each of them requires mastery of movement and shooting mechanics unique to them. The heavier classes are just as vulnerable as the most agile if they don’t play to their strengths. The Assassin, the game’s grappling hook-wielding hero is near inescapable at close range, but the trick is that it’ll take you a while to master her controls enough to consistently hit players.
 
This is balanced out by her incredible speed, which makes her harder to hit when she’s moving, but a bit easier when she’s at the start of her swing. Even the Battle Medic, a role other games often equip with a healing beam and a meagre secondary, has a powerful grenade launcher and hover ability here – both exclusive to her – that allow her to lop grenades into a contested zone or shut down entry points.
 
Though some classes can be classified as support, there’s no equivalent of a Mercy or Symmetra here. Everyone has to get out and get kills or play the objective, everything else is secondary. If you really want to compare this approach with something, compare it with Quake Champions’. Even then, LawBreakers has the edge because it’s not trying to recreate an old success, and it’s not bound by decades-old rules and expectations........
 
The way characters move also matters in LawBreakers. Every hero’s main movement ability (Shift by default) is vastly different from the rest. Some characters are inherently better in the air than they are on the ground, but everyone has a gauge they need to keep an eye on that’s consumed in different ways. The opposite is true for others who work best dealing splash damage to stationary and slow heroes. There’s an ultimate ability for all heroes, and they’re often fun and satisfying to use.
 
I’d like to think we’re witnessing a renaissance in skill-based shooters, and the return of skill-based movement is a large part of that. LawBreakers represents the apex of this. Games like Titanfall 2, and Quake Champions don’t quite have this depth to their movement mechanics.

 

 

Here is a great article that EVERYONE comparing it to OW and the like should read instead of being ignorant asshats. This game has a UT 99' feel to it of controlled chaos, pure skill, lower TTK with emphasis on head-shots, speed, verticality in map design, and unique movement mechanics/weapons unlike other FPS of the time. Its a breath of fresh air in my opinion and its own game with its own rules. It can only get better in further updates and I am still having a blast playing when im finding games.

 

If more major video-game websites would conduct a thorough, thoughtful, review like this user has done  and spend less time talking about how its bad launch and how its trying to compete with OW maybe more people would give it a shot and be delightfully surprised by this excellent new FPS and the depth of the heroes and gameplay. But much like the UT series, it seems destined to be a hard game to "get" initially with a steep learning curve and definitely a game where the hardcore players "stand out" skill-wise compared to noobs. So those who dont dedicate the time to learning it never will understand why the fan-base is so die-hard and all the mechanical intricacies and inter-play of the game mechanics with each unique hero. https://www.vg247.co...ith-it-to-care/


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#28   QuietMan

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 08:13 PM

I've actually spent a lot of time playing with all the classes. It really just feels like a modern CoD or Titantfall game with zero-g elements, class based moment abilities, and watered-down Overwatchesqe class abilities.  

I love the game and think it has a lot of potential, it has cool game modes, and I wish I could find games easier. 

 

However, you can call me an asshat all you want. It's not going to convince me to agree the gun play is more similar to UT than CoD or Titanfall.  I've played them all extensively.  Take away movement and zero-g and the class abilities, and all you have left is a game with CoD/Titanfall gun play mechanics at its' core(albeit gun play mechanics with much higher skill gap due to no hand holding that comes with games designed for console). 


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#29   Ramirez77

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:37 PM

@QuietMan

It'd help if you elaborated on what exactly you meant by "CoD-like gunplay".

 

The only similarities I'm seeing here is that ground movement is a bit slow and the game is hitscan/automatic dominated.


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#30   Hitman

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:02 PM

I've actually spent a lot of time playing with all the classes. It really just feels like a modern CoD or Titantfall game with zero-g elements, class based moment abilities, and watered-down Overwatchesqe class abilities.  

I love the game and think it has a lot of potential, it has cool game modes, and I wish I could find games easier. 

 

However, you can call me an asshat all you want. It's not going to convince me to agree the gun play is more similar to UT than CoD or Titanfall.  I've played them all extensively.  Take away movement and zero-g and the class abilities, and all you have left is a game with CoD/Titanfall gun play mechanics at its' core(albeit gun play mechanics with much higher skill gap due to no hand holding that comes with games designed for console). 

 

The speed, bunnyhops, low-g environments, aerial combat, dashes and dodging, wall-jumps, gore, and lightning cannon are pretty UT-like. Im not going to go over every single hero and weapon but I would say a good 80-90 % of them can trace their roots to either the UT or Quake series inspired weaponry. Hell the dual pistols of the Gunslinger is pretty damn close to dual enforcers in UT even the rapid-fire alt mode is similar. The mini-gun is the gatling gun. Of course the rocket launcher with the homing rockets alt fire mode is a throwback to UT 99's infamous RL. Im kind of dissapointed they didn't include a sniper support hero that said "HEAD SHOT!" every-time you got a brainer because then it would really be like UT 99' imo. Even the maps are small-med size with TONS of more emphasis on verticality than OW much like an old-school Arena FPS. 

 

Furthermore, lots of what is behind Lawbreakers movement tricks and depth is Quake's rocketjump applied to an entire arsenal. It's not just a shooter that trades on verticality, but one in which almost every weapon,from the Enforcer's  carbine to the Assassin's fizzing shotgun,doubles as a means of traversal. They even did something with blindfire that has never been done before. In LawBreakers, blindfiring is all aggression. It pops your gun over your shoulder and blasts away to create momentum in a low gravity environment.The objective-focused play and lack of map pick-ups/restriction of only using two weapons is the "modern" shooter part of it but I would not classify LB anywhere near OW,CoD, or Tifanfall it is in fact an Arena shooter with some modern FPS mechanics.


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#31   Nokterne

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 04:59 PM

Yeah this game screams UT to me. Only ever played '99, but it feels like they added depth to the zero gravity areas from that and put them in the middle of every map. It's really cool how you change your movement style and tactics as you move from normal gravity to zero gravity.

 

The art choices are growing on me as well, it's like the game isn't trying as hard to be friendly and likable. It has that dumb edginess/goofiness that most games have gotten rid of because they want to be taken super seriously. Visuals are a bit cluttered, would be nice if there were cleaner silhouettes to track against the hyper detailed geometry.

 

I didn't play before the 1.4 health buff, and am kinda wishing I had now based on how much faster the TTK was back then. Would love to see a revert or tone back on some of those changes.

 

Hope it manages to get a player base, I enjoy it more than any other PC shooter out there right now when a good lobby gets together.


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#32   Hitman

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 05:15 PM

Yeah this game screams UT to me. Only ever played '99, but it feels like they added depth to the zero gravity areas from that and put them in the middle of every map. It's really cool how you change your movement style and tactics as you move from normal gravity to zero gravity.

 

The art choices are growing on me as well, it's like the game isn't trying as hard to be friendly and likable. It has that dumb edginess/goofiness that most games have gotten rid of because they want to be taken super seriously. Visuals are a bit cluttered, would be nice if there were cleaner silhouettes to track against the hyper detailed geometry.

 

I didn't play before the 1.4 health buff, and am kinda wishing I had now based on how much faster the TTK was back then. Would love to see a revert or tone back on some of those changes.

 

Hope it manages to get a player base, I enjoy it more than any other PC shooter out there right now when a good lobby gets together.

 

I think they are in panic mode honestly. They realize they made a pretty sweaty, fast,high skill ceiling FPS with little to no marketing and for multiple reasons its obviously failing. People either have never heard of the game, have tried the game and got their ass kicked and decided it wasn't worth the effort(hence the steep learning curve), or the most idiotic but prevalent internet troll stereotype that its just a "lesser OW" IMO. It was also released and marketed(if u can even call it that) in the dead of Summer when alot of people just are not that interested in jumping into new games and gaming in general as much as they are near the holiday season. 

 

I was the biggest Lawbreakers skeptic until I played the beta and was pleasantly surprised by how fresh, fast, skill-based, and exciting it felt compared to every other FPS at the time(and yes thats includes OW). Its the best game Cliff Bleskinski has made(or overlooked I know Boss Key has many talented devs) since UT 2003/2004 in my opinion and it "redeemed" him in my eyes as he got back to making the fun,fast, wacky, explosive FPS style he was originally known for. He was always kind of a d-bag at times but I still respect him as a developer for doing his own thing again and leaving AAA and producing the game he wanted to make. He made the GOAT after-all UT 99' less the PC crowd not forget. There will always be a portion of fans though that enjoy seeing him fail because of his brashness/outspoken nature sort of like how it was with John Romero.

 

Anyways, Boss Key is planning a huge "All-star" Update for Lawbreakers that includes a ranked competitive mode and new maps. I think catching on as an e-sport should be the focus going forward if this game has any chance to make a come-back sort of like how SMITE and others caught on as e-sports late and built their player-base off of that. Clan MM would be cool too, but I like clans in every shooter I play thats just how I was raised.


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#33   Hitman

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:46 AM

I remember when the community was still pretty active during beta and this video got me soooo hyped like this is going to be the next big competitive FPS look at how fkn awesome this game is! Now its barely alive...  :( I got a few games in this weekend after the release of the Boss Leagues ranked update, still fun af and gives me my AFPS "fix" lol its a shame the update didn't really help much with getting people to buy the game. I think they are going to need to go F2P eventually...even though I hate to admit it and im sure they do too. Still the most unique and dynamic new FPS on the market, if it had better marketing and a few easier modes like TDM at launch I think it would of been a different story.

 

But sadly that is the world we live in today...skill-based FPS dont appeal to the "MW generation" and millennials especially fast ones that dont cater to the stop-and-pop cover based ADS style that makes up 99.9 percent of the AAA market. They want instant gratification and for games to lie to them and tell them they are good and heap on rewards for every head-shot they land. They simply have no clue how to adapt to new shooter styles, no experience with other shooter genres nor knowledge of the history of the FPS, and no idea how to appreciate an FPS Like Lawbreakers for challenging the status quo and offering something different than the generic shooter mush they have been force-fed all their life. I thought the PC player-base would love an old-school style FPS like this and get behind it in a major way but man was I wrong. Good luck Quake Champions...your going to need it! Sincerely, Lawbreakers imo.

 

On a positive note, here is an awesome competitive series of LB at Dreamhack this weekend! What a great competitive FPS...makes OW look like its moving in slow motion in comparison.That uplink game had me sweating just watching it!

 


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#34   Ramirez77

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 03:46 AM

Modern gamers are too intellectually lazy and timid when it comes to leaving their comfort zone.

Old school gamers have too much of a self absorbed bias to analyze games objectively and are too unwilling to compromise on anything.

Both of these problems contribute heavily to the death of the AFPS genre.

 

For every person unwilling to try Lawbreakers because it's too alien from CoD, there's another person who condemns the game as casual garbage before touching it because it's not pure enough.  Because it's apparently preferable to these people that AFPS go extinct entirely instead of be "corrupted" in any form.  Even if it means dooming future generations to nothing but military shooters for all eternity.

 

I guess my point is that bashing modern gamers isn't entirely unwarranted (believe me I know, I could write an entire paper on their bullshit), but it's important to remain self-critical and open-minded as well.  There's plenty of flaws on the other side of the fence too.

 

The core gameplay should be skill-based.  That doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to scare people off by brandishing that fact whenever and wherever possible.  That doesn't mean you can't have casual experiences in addition to the skill based core experience.  Being hardcore shouldn't be the only thing you care about, otherwise you doom your game to an early death.  Even back in the 90's it wasn't all people cared about.

 

Apathetically tacking on cosmetics and clan arena is not how you properly cater to casual interests either.


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#35   Hitman

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 05:12 PM

Modern gamers are too intellectually lazy and timid when it comes to leaving their comfort zone.

Old school gamers have too much of a self absorbed bias to analyze games objectively and are too unwilling to compromise on anything.

Both of these problems contribute heavily to the death of the AFPS genre.

 

For every person unwilling to try Lawbreakers because it's too alien from CoD, there's another person who condemns the game as casual garbage before touching it because it's not pure enough.  Because it's apparently preferable to these people that AFPS go extinct entirely instead of be "corrupted" in any form.  Even if it means dooming future generations to nothing but military shooters for all eternity.

 

I guess my point is that bashing modern gamers isn't entirely unwarranted (believe me I know, I could write an entire paper on their bullshit), but it's important to remain self-critical and open-minded as well.  There's plenty of flaws on the other side of the fence too.

 

The core gameplay should be skill-based.  That doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to scare people off by brandishing that fact whenever and wherever possible.  That doesn't mean you can't have casual experiences in addition to the skill based core experience.  Being hardcore shouldn't be the only thing you care about, otherwise you doom your game to an early death.  Even back in the 90's it wasn't all people cared about.

 

Apathetically tacking on cosmetics and clan arena is not how you properly cater to casual interests either.

 

LB is an objective-focused shooter with plenty of "easier" classes the modern FPS audience is accustomed to like the soldier and the Assassin who uses Katanas as its main source of damage you dont have to be an experienced AFPS player to enjoy Lawbreakers imo. Its much more accessible than an old-school Arena FPS and even something like Quake Champions in my opinion, you can still contribute to your team's victory by playing less skill-based classes like the Battle Medic or playing the objective. Its all about getting the Win at the end of the match, it doesn't glorify individual K/D's and stat-padding. Well ranked does, but individual player performances should be weighed favorably in a ranked environment.

 

There is plenty of AFPS Players who HATE that Quake is becoming a more accessible Arena/Hero FPS. but are still supporting it because its still Quake at its core and they want to see it succeed. I have gone on record saying that id made the right decision by trying to diversify Quake's audience even when its really just jumping on the hero FPS bandwagon. The stigma that AFPS are close-minded elitists is one born of the modern FPS players inability to understand or appreciate our culture and oldchool shooter community culture in general, it is not rooted in truth as far as im concerned.

 

AFPS players are some of the most open-minded and hardcore gamers out there who support the FPS genre as a whole and small/indie devs as well as AAA its just a player-base that after years of futility and seeing their communities completely ignored by AAA that is hungry to see the next Quake III Arena or UT 99' succeed. I blame AAA more than the current generation of FPS players for their close-mindedness and lack of appreciation for different shooter sub genres, im sure if there was more diversity being offered to them by AAA it would be different and there wouldn't be this huge divide and angst in the shooter industry between "oldschool" and "Modern" FPS players.

 

Modern FPS players have yet to prove they are capable of diversifying to a game like LB beyond their military shooter bubble, or at the very least not destroying it for being different than the generic shooter archetype they exclusively support. They are not "FPS fans" they are "military shooter fans" and until they remain so hardcore FPS fans like me have the right not to respect them or what they stand for. Big AAA Publishers and their fanboys have killed this genre from what it used to be and stand for. We also have the right not to respect or support AAA for feeding this sick tunnel-vision mind-set while the rest of the shooter genre literally decays and dies right in front of our face while the fat cat publishers get richer. Only the military shooter genre and the CoD fanboys have prospered in the modern shooter era because tactical FPS, Arena FPS, hardcore simulators, ect.. those games have been erased from AAA and their fans have been left to bleed out and die by the industry. Well fuck that we are shooter fans too and will have a say in that. If that makes me an elitist or disliked in some communities so be it..Im sick and fkn tired of AAA shitting on communities I am apart of and that I care for and the other 90 percent of the FPS player-base being ignored.

 

That is the main reason why you have prominent devs like Cliffy B who bleed the FPS leaving AAA and making innovative new IP's like Lawbreakers because they are fed up with it as well, they know more than we do how fucked up the system is and they want to help change the landscape.You can clearly see how rejuvenated he was making LB in any interview you watch he even said it himself. If your a true fan of this genre, you should be fkn fed up with this royal grade BS as well and want to burst this fucking bubble and break the shackles that AAA has cast on the hardcore FPS community because one way or another we are going to do it or die trying. It only takes one to start a successful revolution....somebody has to be the ones brave enough to risk their neck and reputation for the betterment of us all and the FPS genre. That goes for PLAYERS too not just devs...we will be the driving force of this change. It will start with a small core community of passionate hardcore shooter fans just like how every great competitive shooter community started. Sacrifices and hardship are necessary in order for great change to happen... it wont be the cool or popular game to play. It wont be on the top 10 list being streamed on Twitch. Your friends probably wont even play it at first...they might even make fun of you for doing so(like everyone does for playing LB even though its a great FPS.)But in the end, it will be worth it when we the players reclaim our genre and are able to introduce the modern FPS players to the greatness of a hardcore shooter.

 

Demon Souls/Dark Souls and From Software started out the same way when nobody thought a hardcore action RPG with a tagline of "Prepare to Die" nonetheless (almost like a pc version of "John Romeros going to make you his bitch" LOL) could reach mass success in today's market. I know I was one of the first to play the series..Dark Souls and From Software are like gods to me and hardcore gamers everywhere I worship them. The same could theoretically happen if a hardcore FPS succeeded, there is such a desire in the communities I frequent for one to blow up like that. Then suddenly gamers were reminded "Wow...challenging games ARE fun!" and that game sort of brought back the oldschool action RPG as well as what hardcore oldschool RPG's like Divinity OS and Pillars of Eternity did for the CRPG. There is a niche for a skill-based FPS that brings its own original style and has modern features on par with AAA games to succeed. I have to believe that or I would just quit playing FPS altogether and go play Starcraft or something. Sometimes its not the first that will ultimately succeed..but make no mistake about it a revolution is brewing.LB shows us its possible regardless and will inspire others to follow in its path.


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