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Guest Message by DevFuse

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I have devised a way to demonstrate heavy aim


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487 replies to this topic

#1   Mib2347

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:47 AM

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I've modded a controller so that when it vibrates it activates the thumbstick to turn left at 100% force for however long the vibration occurs. So now when I shoot a weapon in game it vibrates which turns the reticle for a exact amount of time. This is a way of emulating a precise thumbstick movement.

To test the mod for consistency I loaded Halo 1 and started the mission Halo. I got a checkpoint and then shot once to move the aim. Then I reloaded the check point to reset the aim and shot again. The idea is that if I start from the same position and shoot to trigger the vibration which emulates the thumbstick movement, then the reticle should end up in the same place every time. Out of 67 shots on the video 66 times it moved to the exact same place. Here is the video

http://xboxdvr.com/g.../video/29097338

I actually performed the test without filming earlier and after 100 times just once did the aim land somewhere unexpected. It moved from the same position and ended up in the exact same place 99 out of 100 times.

Then I loaded up a custom game of Halo 5. I played on coliseum and removed all the spawns and made just one. I didn't move the reticle and did the same method of firing one bullet to make vibration mod activate the thumbstick movement. The aim landed in one of 3 precise locations despite receiving the exact same input every time. I can confidently say that the aim is very inconsistent in Halo 5. The video shows how bad it is

http://xboxdvr.com/g.../video/29097414

Also I have a video in the campaign. 3 times the aimer goes further than expected, 3 times not quite as far, and then the rest land in the middle of those extremes.

http://xboxdvr.com/g.../video/29097596

Out of interest I tried the test in the same part of campaign again but this time with the Xbox in offline mode. Heavy aim still happened.

It looks like input lag is caused when the CPU is being bogged down and not able to calculate input as expected. This occurs during campaign while in offline mode with very controlled conditions so the issue is something fundamental with the way the game works.

As soon as you take that broken mechanic online the stress on the CPU only gets worse. If you have all your armor, helmet, visor, weapon skin unlocks loaded into ram then that leaves less for the CPU. If you have a bad connection to the server then there's a delay the exchange of information between your Xbox and the server so your Xbox has to do things like estimate the position of other players more frequently which tasks the CPU.

A perfect example of all this is in optic documentary the 343 employee says to royal 2 while the special network stats menu is running "You have zero 0 latency so you're getting the full 60 frames from the server". Royal 2 then says the aim feels great in that situation

UPDATE!
SacUSA had a genius idea of using machina mode as it displays your reticle postion with numbers.

The video is below
http://xboxdvr.com/g.../video/29208763

You will see that it does land it the exact same place for periods of time but then it changes.
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#2   Mib2347

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:49 AM

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Here is how I created the mod using a soldering iron, wire, and a £3 spdt relay. The mod is very easy even with little soldering experience and it is completely reversible. I have tried it on an elite controller and a regular Xbox one controller that is about 2 years old.

There are two potentiometers for the x and y axes on the thumbstick that register thumbstick movement. One is on the bottom of the module and the other is on the side. The bottom one is for the x axis so that's what I used.

There are 3 pins on each potentiometer. Looking at the pins with the thumbstick facing down I soldered one wire to the middle pin and one to the right pin.

http://m.imgur.com/oHmEUAm

If you connect these wires the controller thinks you're pressing left with 100% of the thumbstick turn. These two wires are connected to the spdt relay which keeps the circuit open until a voltage is applied to it to trigger the closing of the curcuit. This is what it looks like:

http://www.maplin.co...ure-relay-n91ed

And here mine is

http://m.imgur.com/wH8U54S

I then desoldered the rumble motor and used the pads to connect my own wires. I connected these to the spdt relay. Now when the rumble motor would normally be activated it instead triggers the relay to close the circuit between the potentiometer pins. This means that when the controller would vibrate that signal is used to make the controller think the thumbstick is being moved. This is where I soldered them. Polarity doesn't matter when you connect these to the spdt relay.

http://m.imgur.com/WHO7v3t

When you shoot a weapon in game it activates the rumble motor which using my mod triggers the thumbstick movement for a precise amount of time each time. http://m.imgur.com/E...WHO7v3t,wH8U54S
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#3   ripharambe

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:56 AM

You need to go post this on Reddit.Great job by the way.
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#4   Apoll0

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:58 AM

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holy shit.

 

I was trying to poke holes in this but the way you explain everything including the controller mods just removes any doubt.

 

holy shit.

 

 

Can you test this in a non-halo game that has good aiming like Destiny?


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#5   Mib2347

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:02 AM

You need to go post this on Reddit.Great job by the way.


I tried to post this on reddit but I delete my old account and the automod hid my post from a new account. Feel free to share it there though by all means.
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#6   Mib2347

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:05 AM

holy shit.

I was trying to poke holes in this but the way you explain everything including the controller mods just removes any doubt.

holy shit.


Can you test this in a non-halo game that has good aiming like Destiny?


I don't have any other fps games but I would like to try it in a different game for consistency.

If you can think of anything I could do to improve it then let me know because I want to be sure. Ideally if other people did the mod then they could see for themselves too.

There's a thread on waypoint about heavy aim with almost 600 replies now I think and not a single one is from 343. I posted this all in there when I did it over the weekend.

https://www.halowayp...f/posts?page=27
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#7   Basu

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:07 AM

doing gods work. please also test other games (h3 might be interesting) and I hope the geniuses at 343 see this.
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#8   LoftiestTea33

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:17 AM

This is really good work. I don't even have anything else to say except thanks for putting in the time to do this.


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#9   Mhunterjr

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:24 AM

I threw it up on reddit.

I find it pretty unbelievable that 343 couldn't have done some tests like this.
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#10   Featherz

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:25 AM

I've tweeted this to Royal2, Frosty (the 2 who are super geeky with it) and Tashi hopefully someone will notice this, fantastic work I can't see any flaw with the testing.
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#11   SNIPER ACTIV3

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:26 AM

Damn, and that's only a single input you were testing, now imagine trying to actually AIM with this shit. I'd be very interested in seeing how many shots it takes to do a full 360 degree turn (obviously it's going to go past 360 degrees and never exactly on it) and then run that test over and over to see how many bullets it varies by, I think that could be a pretty good way to visualize just how inconsistent it is unless there's a better way to do it.
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#12   LoftiestTea33

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:29 AM

Damn, and that's only a single input you were testing, now imagine trying to actually AIM with this shit. I'd be very interested in seeing how many shots it takes to do a full 360 degree turn (obviously it's going to go past 360 degrees and never exactly on it) and then run that test over and over to see how many bullets it varies by, I think that could be a pretty good way to visualize just how inconsistent it is unless there's a better way to do it.

Yeah, the problem is also that it's so inconsistent too. A really bad server and just basic movement is a chore because of the aiming troubles. Doing it in various customs, with and without other people, is probably worth trying.


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#13   Oriiii

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:33 AM

Lol
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#14   Mhunterjr

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:34 AM

Would there be anyway to simulate a smaller deflection, but over a longer period of time?

Perhaps 50% stick movement for 2 seconds.

This would let us see any variation in how the cpu is interpreting inputs overtime...which is what we 'feel' as heavy aim.

Also, it would be cool if you could spawn facing a grid made with forge peices. That way we have a reference for making measurements. If different people are gonna test it out, they could all use the same forge map.

Im a nerd.
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#15   Mr Grim

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:37 AM

Wow. You went the extra mile here.


Well done sir.
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#16   Ultimatedong

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:38 AM

this is good stuff.  It would be interesting to see how this applies in relation to some of the points brought up in the waypoint thread.  Test alone then test with people joining from other regions, test on a smurf with no unlocks then on normal account etc.

 

Nice work


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#17   Mib2347

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:45 AM

Damn, and that's only a single input you were testing, now imagine trying to actually AIM with this shit. I'd be very interested in seeing how many shots it takes to do a full 360 degree turn (obviously it's going to go past 360 degrees and never exactly on it) and then run that test over and over to see how many bullets it varies by, I think that could be a pretty good way to visualize just how inconsistent it is unless there's a better way to do it.


One of the things that I noticed which was very interesting was the way it over aimed. This was quite rare so it's less easy to notice in game. But we've all had that feeling where suddenly you can't get that final headshot and this could possibly be why.

It's totally ruined the game for me now.
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#18   Oreodrinker

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:54 AM

Great job. I admire your dedication to this!


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#19   Mib2347

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:54 AM

Would there be anyway to simulate a smaller deflection, but over a longer period of time?

Perhaps 50% stick movement for 2 seconds.

This would let us see any variation in how the cpu is interpreting inputs overtime...which is what we 'feel' as heavy aim.

Also, it would be cool if you could spawn facing a grid made with forge peices. That way we have a reference for making measurements. If different people are gonna test it out, they could all use the same forge map.

Im a nerd.


I'm not really that knowledgeable when it comes to electronics so I don't think that I could personally figure out a way to input 50% turn. But it might be possible for someone who knows what they're doing which would be great if they could figure that out.

With regards to the forge maps then the op on waypoint (wu ip man) did suggest exactly what you've described. The only potential issue is that forge maps are known to be a bit broken so it might not be an ideal environment to test in. That said if someone created a map then I would gladly try it.
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#20   Craneteam

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:55 AM

great job! its unbelievable (not really) that this is determined by poor coding in the game. great find


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#21   Haruko

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:03 AM

The only thing i can think of (and maybe you already confirmed this), but: this test assumes that the vibration for each shot w/ the same weapon lasts the exact same amount of time. i.e. there aren't multiple potential vibration responses you could get from the same weapon.

I don't THINK there are variable length vibrations from a single weapon in H5, but I just wanted to note this as it's technically an assumption, i believe.


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#22   TheSimms

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:13 AM

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Ive passed this along to hopefully get seen by the right people.
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#23   Limpo

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:19 AM

Amazing job! @Mib2347
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#24   My Namez BEAST

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:20 AM

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You basically play the lottery every time you move the stick. And this is an FPS. Dear God how was I able to play this?
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#25   Limpo

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:21 AM

You basically play the lottery every time you move the stick. And this is an FPS. Dear God how was I able to play this?


Because this didn't occur when the game came out. I think it started happening after the sensitivity update. Saw some other people say the same thing.
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