Jump to content



Welcome to Beyond Entertainment


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to Beyond Entertainment, like most online communities you must register to post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of Beyond Entertainment by signing in or creating an account.
  • Share your thoughts on the Halo franchise with our active community
  • Talk about upcoming Halo tournaments and conventions
  • Join Beyond Premium for extra forum features
  • Send personal messages to other forum members
  • Stay up-to-date on our: Twitter, Facebook and Youtube
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds and Discussion‏


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
37328 replies to this topic

#9551   Mogul2012

Mogul2012
  • Member
  • 1790

  • 585 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 06:38 PM

Dude I'm pissed off right now why did I just watch this normal gameplay with that clickbait? I'm about to flag the video.

E6 stole your free time


  • 1



#9552   Shooter

Shooter
  • Pro Player
  • 395

  • 9 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 06:42 PM

*
POPULAR

Addressing the whole situation about our pro seed:

 

Hey guys, sorry it took me a while to post this. I was going to make a video explaining everything that happened but I just haven't had time the last few days and thought this would be easier. I know it’s pretty long, I tried to make it as short as possible and focus just on exactly what happened. With that, let's get started. The first thing I want to talk about is the contracts.  After relegations, the only two players under contract with E6 are Cratos and bubu dubu. I was under contract during summer pro league but I had not resigned a contract when I rejoined from Allegiance during the fall transfer period. Suspector wasn't under contract either, I'm not exactly sure why that was. Fast forwarding: Bubu and I now have our team and our next step is to look for an org.

 

I had reached out to Connor (The owner of Allegiance) and we both expressed interest. He reached out to Chris (The owner of E6) to see if they could work something out. This is when things started to get complicated. When Connor reached out to Chris, Chris let bubu know that he had given E6 the right to his right to the league spot in his contract. To keep it short, since bubu and Cratos were both under contract, E6 has two players’ rights to their right to have a pro league spot, meaning they can control what happens with the spot. So, the problem we were having was that when Chris and Connor were negotiating a buyout, the price was very high because bubu AND the spot were being sold to Allegiance. Now we get to the part where Cratos says we don't care about the league spot.  At this point, we know this is probably not going to be able to happen.

 

No organization would pay this much money for bubu and the league spot. Plus, bubu and I are really stressed out at this point we just wanted to get everything figured out as quickly as possible.  We also really wanted to be a part of Allegiance.  So, we told Chris we don't care about the league spot because at worst case, we were ok with letting the spot dissolve just like Allegiance's spot did and we would just have to play for it next season.  Hypothetically, us and problem solvers should be able to get back into pro league. We believe in ourselves enough to take the risk. Now things get crazy. (I think Cratos came up with this idea but I'm not 100% sure.) The plan was that our team would submit our roster under the Allegiance pro seed as "Myself, Renegade, Falcated, and Str8 Sick" and they would submit their roster under the E6 pro seed as "Nemassist, Naded (I think it was going to be Monster but I'm not sure), Cratos, and bubu dubu.  We would both skip St. Louis, and when we were eligible for a roster change we would switch Str8 Sick and bubu.

 

Basically, we would both get a pro league spot and us personally, would get Allegiance. However, we would both lose our pro seed for Vegas and we would both lose our only roster change for the season. bubu and I were not on board with this plan at all. We are a new team and a young team, and we can't afford to skip a LAN especially before world's. We were also not willing to give up our pro seed and our only roster change option for the season. The handicap was just too much. Regardless, Connor and Chad (The manager for the Allegiance Pro League spot) weren't on board with the plan either.  They just didn’t feel comfortable doing something like this and I completely agree.

 

So basically, the whole plan falls through. This is the point when Connor lets us know that he is going to start talking to other teams. Meanwhile, I get a text from Ryanoob. He says, "Yo, Cratos is saying you're getting screwed out of a seed somehow. The team was me, Zeke (Prototype), Cory (Str8 Sick), and Dastroyed but Cratos is saying he has a seed so now Cory is trying to team with them" This is when I say, "He cannot have a seed without me, bubu, or Suspector lol it's not possible" (little did I know....). Before all of this, I don't think there's a pro, manager, org, or fan who would disagree with that statement. I precede to then say "Regardless, if Jesse and I were to get screwed out of one doesn't mean he would get one lol the spot would just fizzle out like ALG's" (little did I know again....). So, in my head, the only way this would be possible was if E6 forced (per the contract) bubu and Cratos to team together. Neither team would get to go to go to St. Louis and then they would drop Jesse after and pick up Nemassist. I know that E6 would never do something like this.  So now, all I'm thinking is that Cratos is just saying this because he wants Str8 Sick to team with him. That's the only explanation I can come up with. It's at this point I assume (January 5th), that Cratos and ESL/Halo already discussed everything about the loophole.

 

No one from ESL or Halo bothered to tell us about it by the way, (until Jan 11, the day before the lock) which I think is comical. A few days go by, and Chris and Connor aren't really making progress. Now it’s Tuesday, January 10th. Chris sends Cratos, Showtime, and bubu a group text which says something along the lines of: You guys need to discuss this amongst yourselves and come up with a solution. This isn't about contracts anymore. So, myself, bubu, Cratos, and Showtime join a skype call which consists mostly of us telling Cratos how wrong this is and Cratos telling us that he's just doing what's best for him (This is also the point where Cratos after the fact is claiming on the forums that he told bubu about what they could do). I had absolutely no idea that what happened was a possibility.

 

I was so sure that you needed two players to keep a spot no matter what.  Cratos claims that he told bubu that this was possible, but bubu says that he didn’t. bubu never said anything to me about it or even seemed concerned with this outcome. Regardless, when I'm telling Cratos that what he wants us to do is just not right, I'm referring to the plan of: Cratos wants bubu to team until after St. Louis, neither of our teams go, and they keep the Pro League spot. In essence, I'm calling Cratos' bluff because Chris just clearly told all of us that this wasn't about contracts anymore. Looking back at it, the conversation was pointless.  The next day, Wednesday January 11th, I get the email.
 
"The manager of the team is responsible for submitting any and all roster changes to the League. Any changes made without the manager is a violation of League rules and will be treated as such. If Nick Laskaras, manager of HCS Pro league team Enigma 6, submits a roster consisting of Cratos, bubu dubu, and two additional players, that is officially the Enigma 6 roster. If a player then contests that it is not the roster, and that one of the two original members (Cratos or bubu dubu) is leaving or has left the team, it would fall under the rule "player leaving".”
“Engima 6, following past precedent in the League, will be allowed to replace bubu dubu and retain their position in the league, as well as their top 8 seed for UGC St. Louis."
 
I can't describe to you guys how I felt after I read that email (this is why a lot of pro players try to tell you guys how stressful it is to be a pro halo player. For the most part, nothing feels secure). Especially a player like myself, who hasn't really made it yet. We just lost our pro league spot, our pro seed, and we end up losing Allegiance because when I tell Connor we’re going to lose our spot, he decides that he is going to go with Problem Solvers. Not only that, THEY GET THE SPOT. Meaning that our team, or Problem Solvers (now Allegiance), won't be in the next Pro League. How is this actually possible? I tried emailing a few things back saying things like "they are submitting a fake roster how can they do that and not be penalized?" Eventually, bubu and I got in a call with Mark Snyder and Kyle Elam and they explained everything to us. The only thing that matters is the manager. He can submit whatever roster he wants and there's nothing anyone can do about it.  How does that make any sense? You already see how ridiculous our situation is, but another example: Let's say bubu and myself decided to go to EG and Suspector joined Liquid (we all have a seed and don’t need the E6 one); and Showtime hates Cratos. He could've submitted a roster of Cratos, bubu dubu, Billybob712, and AshtonKutcher63; and Cratos would've had to play with both players at St. Louis and at least one of those players for the remainder of the season. Also, we couldn’t request a manager change because we would've needed Suspector (who wasn't willing because he didn't want to get involved), and E6 to agree to on the change. Right or wrong, these rules make absolutely no sense.

 

It also didn’t help that everyone in the entire halo scene including myself thought the only thing that mattered was having two players from the original roster. I also want to stress that E6 had nothing to do with the decision that was made.  They do not deserve be taking any of the blame for what happened. Showtime was submitting that roster with or without a contract. Also, I know it’s fun for everyone to hate on them, but bubu and I really enjoyed playing for E6, especially the first season. That’s a time in my life that I will never forget. We really appreciate everything they did for us and we wish them the best of luck.
 
I also want to address the other team:
I already told Cratos that I was not making this to bash them. I made this purely to explain what happened. I think in most people's eyes, what they did was completely unethical.  I don't think there's another pro in this league who would even think about doing something like this, let alone actually doing it.  But they did what they did, and they need to hone it.  Naded claims he didn't know how everything was happening, but he did.  If you're Naded, and Cratos comes to you and says "Team with me I have a guaranteed league spot." Would you just leave Str8 Rippin (I have confirmation from APG that Naded did in fact leave Str8, he was not dropped) to team with Cratos and not ask how he has this guaranteed league spot? There's no way he would've joined until he was 100% certain (knowing every detail) that Cratos FOR SURE had the league spot. Cratos ended up confirming to me that Naded knew on Saturday anyway. And then I hear Str8 Sick in his stream saying things like: I didn't do anything. I just joined a team. Seriously? Everyone on that team is just as accountable as Cratos and Showtime are.

 

I'll say it again, they did what they did. So they better hone it. Because taking advantage of this loophole and taking away something bubu and I earned while also trying to say they're not at fault pisses me off more than them actually taking it. At least Cratos is honing what he did, and he also earned that spot with bubu and I. And don't think just because I’m saying that mean I'm giving Cratos and Showtime a pass for this, because I'm not.

 

As for our team, we think it’s inconceivable that something like this really happened. We will be attending St. Louis but we will not be representing anyone.  We are in talks with some orgs and I’m sure we’ll have something figured out before Vegas. I'm very excited to be playing with these super talented and awesome little kids and I can't wait to see what the future holds for Shooter's Daycare.  I’ll try to answer any more questions if I can, thanks everyone. 

 

- Shooter


  • 180

#9553   RileyP33

RileyP33
  • Member
  • 310

  • 166 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 06:47 PM

-Snip-

- Shooter    

TLDR....can you please give me the cliff-notes version?


  • -53

#9554   Frosty

Frosty

    ???

  • Moderator
  • 9159

  • 3,264 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 06:48 PM

*
POPULAR

OirFTWN.png

 

Do we get to flame @LethuL for playing h1z1 like we do Ninja? Honestly it's probably why nv beat them zzz


  • 33

#9555   CyReN

CyReN

    Ð

  • Admin
  • 55645

  • 15,674 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 06:49 PM

*
POPULAR

Thanks for posting @Shooter, spaced out your post to make it easier to read (hope that's cool).
  • 41

#9556   Shooter

Shooter
  • Pro Player
  • 395

  • 9 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 06:50 PM

*
POPULAR

TLDR....can you please give me the cliff-notes version?

Hahaha my bad. Everyone has been given the cliff-notes version, this post is for those who want to know the whole story


  • 23

#9557   Shooter

Shooter
  • Pro Player
  • 395

  • 9 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 06:51 PM

*
POPULAR

Thanks for posting @Shooter, spaced out your post to make it easier to read (hope that's cool).

Yup that's cool, thank you


  • 11

#9558   Wilsonator

Wilsonator
  • Member
  • 502

  • 244 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 06:51 PM

*
POPULAR

Wow. So ESL is okay with orgs selling their Pro League spot and thinks it's okay to have something in player contracts when it's clearly not in their own rules. ESL admits that a manager is allowed to submit any roster he wants, regardless of if the players have any intention of staying on the team. They can essentially hold players onto their team if they don't want to let them leave. ESL has no idea what they're doing, and they're doubling down on supporting Cratos' bullshit. They've ignored their own public rulebook and continue to make shit up on the spot.


  • 12

#9559   CyReN

CyReN

    Ð

  • Admin
  • 55645

  • 15,674 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 06:55 PM

*
POPULAR

So Showtime could have submitted Cratos, Bubu, Trump and Bernie and it would have been ok?

Just trying to understand all of this so we can give friendly and logical suggestions on how to improve the format.

 

Any word about this @Vivi @Timo?


  • 19

#9560   Legend4Now

Legend4Now
  • Premium
  • 724

  • 389 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 06:57 PM

*
POPULAR

@Shooter your org should be renegades


  • 11

#9561   Kr0ni

Kr0ni
  • Member
  • 1034

  • 354 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:03 PM

Any word about this @Vivi @Timo?

 

Not even a Soon™


  • 6

#9562   Igs cubanex

Igs cubanex
  • Member
  • 2895

  • 2,825 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:04 PM

Is it ok now to witchhunt???
  • 8

#9563   Nick Patches

Nick Patches
  • Member
  • 1296

  • 634 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:06 PM

*
POPULAR

Thank you @Shooter for your post.

 

 

@Vivi @Timo

 

Care to respond?

 

@Cratos and the rest of his pathetic team

 

You're all still pieces of human garbage. Hope you never place top 8 again.


  • 49

#9564   Jazzy Jedi Jef

Jazzy Jedi Jef
  • Member
  • 81

  • 57 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:09 PM

So what if during the transfer period everyone just submitted weird fake rosters? Would that make a statement to ESL? If every pro league team was just crazy and multiple pros were listed on 2 or 3 teams what would happen?
  • 4

#9565   aFreudianTrip

aFreudianTrip

    FantasyHCS

  • VIP
  • 501

  • 95 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:11 PM

*
POPULAR

-snip-

 

- Shooter

 

My jaw is on the floor


  • 13

#9566   G1N RICKY

G1N RICKY
  • Member
  • 34

  • 20 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:12 PM

Holy shit PLEASE let Shooter and his squad destroy Cratos at St Louis!

Thanks for the whole story, I'm honestly still in disbelief about this whole thing...how in the hell is ESL siding with this bullshit loophole crap...looks real bad for them.

On a related but slightly off topic topic: what does this mean for the pro league? That leaves only 7teams with a garunteed spot, right? So IC and PS are going to have to square off for that? And then what, the loser hopes to knock Team Loophole out at relegation?
  • 0

#9567   LethuL

LethuL

    twitch.tv/lxthul

  • Pro Player
  • 25064

  • 1,750 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:13 PM

*
POPULAR

OirFTWN.png

 

Do we get to flame @LethuL for playing h1z1 like we do Ninja? Honestly it's probably why nv beat them zzz

I got 7th in that game... Op7ic


  • 37

#9568   Dark Scheme

Dark Scheme
  • Member
  • 5

  • 12 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:16 PM

@Shooter Thanks for the full insight and I hope to see your team join a good org, you guys deserve at least that.


  • 1

#9569   Shekkles

Shekkles

    Humble purveyor and seeker of the finest sarcasm.

  • Moderator
  • 9756

  • 4,564 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:18 PM

*
POPULAR

This could be the most relevant GIF ever:

 

6c7b94f50a7467124ff5b27aed8284b0f154dad5

tumblr_nlhcjt3oLP1rvnq90o2_r1_500.gif

 

Cratos is Draco confirmed.


  • 59

#9570   jwright329

jwright329
  • Premium
  • 1178

  • 368 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:19 PM

That leaves only 7teams with a garunteed spot, right? So IC and PS are going to have to square off for that? And then what, the loser hopes to knock Team Loophole out at relegation?

 

Yes, yes, and yes.


  • 1

#9571   Hipstertle

Hipstertle

    Top Qualiber Bad Kid

  • Premium
  • 3019

  • 706 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:19 PM

#FreeShooterandBubu


  • 0

#9572   a Chunk

a Chunk

    Not really Chunky

  • Premium
  • 1168

  • 754 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:20 PM

Wait...I'm totally confused now.  Vivi said that contracts weren't a factor in this.  If that's true, then this doesn't make much sense to me...

Does a 'league spot' literally belong to the manager, and not to the players that earned it?  That can't be true either, or Bubu's name wouldn't have been required for the league spot because Showtime would've had it no matter what.  I assume that this actually WAS possible because Bubu's contract hasn't been transferred, and that the previous comment about contracts not being a factor was a misstatement?  Can we get some clarification?  @Vivi


  • 1

#9573   Brevity II

Brevity II

    I'm not NOT licking toads...

  • Member
  • 2344

  • 921 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:21 PM

Any word about this @Vivi @Timo?


I wouldnt hold my breath for any kind of clarification or even acknowledgment of how completely ridiculous and backwards this is. They only come here to keep up appearances and offer bullspit platitudes. Not a single 343 or esl employee has ever said anything of substance or truth here. I am so fed up with the lack of accountability, integrity and transparency. I have lost all respect for everyone involved with running this farce of a pro league. My high school intramural laser tag league had more integrity and competitive merit than the HCS.
  • 5

#9574   Teriyaki

Teriyaki
  • Member
  • 825

  • 423 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:21 PM

Cratos is Draco confirmed.

 

Crabbe and Goyle were also outed in Shooter's post


  • 9

#9575   TheSimms

TheSimms

    Caster @ ESL

  • VIP
  • 12047

  • 1,268 posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:22 PM

thats UK fashion mate

speak for yourself m8
  • 0