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Halo 5 HCS Map/Gametype Discussion


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55 replies to this topic

#26   kidstandout

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 03:52 PM

1 assault, ball and/or extraction(the only non shit 343 original gametype, 2 plot please) need to be back. i'd say hill too as i enjoy hill more than sh which basically the bastard child of hardpoint and domination but i can live with no hill if assault and ball are back.

 

2 breakout needs to go unless the maps are changed/ shields are 100%

 

3 orion and pegasus better not ever return to arena

 

4 and lastly, slayer needs to go. take a hint from the COD scene, it's garbo for halo 5 anyway.

 

the ideal setup would be ctf, hill, assault, ball or extraction on which ever maps work best for them. 


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#27   fanatic66

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 07:16 PM

1 assault, ball and/or extraction(the only non shit 343 original gametype, 2 plot please) need to be back. i'd say hill too as i enjoy hill more than sh which basically the bastard child of hardpoint and domination but i can live with no hill if assault and ball are back.

 

2 breakout needs to go unless the maps are changed/ shields are 100%

 

3 orion and pegasus better not ever return to arena

 

4 and lastly, slayer needs to go. take a hint from the COD scene, it's garbo for halo 5 anyway.

 

the ideal setup would be ctf, hill, assault, ball or extraction on which ever maps work best for them. 

 

I agree. I haven't enjoyed slayer in Halo for a very long time. There are never enough incentives to move around the map. Objectives force more map movement and prevent boring stalemates. 


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#28   TheSituJAKEtion

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 08:09 PM

Slayer will realistically never be removed from Halo's competitive settings so I think it's best that we focus on how to improve the gametypes that we have. One thing I've noticed with Halo 5 is that the weapon/powerup layouts are often pretty ineffective in getting teams to move around the map. A lot of this is the result of 343 forcing us to use their mid-tier power weapons, but the way they go about it is misguided. You can't put only mid tier power weapons on a map and expect for teams to fight over them as if they're true power weapons.

 

For example, on The Rig, you don't see teams setting up for a big battle over the Plasma Caster or the Railgun like they do with the Sniper and Rocket Launcher. Those weapons simply aren't powerful enough (the railgun is admittedly pretty powerful, but clearly not THAT effective if teams aren't always battling for it). They're eventually picked up, but it's often more the result of a player just being close to the location of its' spawn. Entire teams don't move around the map as the result of these weapons spawning. This poorly thought out weapon placement results in poor gameplay. Imagine the possibilities if The Rig had maybe just one more TRUE power weapon, or if the Sniper/Camo were on faster timers. There's numerous possibilities that would better than the current situation.

 

Same thing with Empire TS- ignoring the obvious storm rifle issue, if there was something stronger than a fucking plasma caster outside, then there would be more incentive to leave tower/security and actually move around the map.


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#29   xxcloud7xx

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 08:20 PM

I agree. I haven't enjoyed slayer in Halo for a very long time. There are never enough incentives to move around the map. Objectives force more map movement and prevent boring stalemates. 

In slayer power items such as rockets and OS are suppose to act as objectives to incentivize/encourage player movement and discourage player stagnation. Unfortunately the only Halo game that has ever had proper power item timers and proper power item placement that encourage player movement in slayer is Halo CE.

 

I don't think we should totally abandon team slayer for Halo 5. What I think we should do is wait until forge comes out so we can put power-ups and power weapons on proper timers and put them in proper locations on the map. We should advocate for power-ups to be put on 1 minute static timers and for power weapons to spawn more frequently and have better layouts.


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#30   aKREZZ

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 10:57 PM

TS

 

- Coliseum

- Empire

- Plaza

- Rig

- Truth

 

CTF

 

- Empire

- Coliseum

- Fathom

- Truth

 

Strongholds

 

- Eden

- Rig


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#31   aKG

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 12:01 AM

I just came here to say how much I hate radar and to mention how every single pro I know has also voiced that same opinion. So 343i, if you are reading this, could you please remove it so that the game can be more fun and competitive?


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#32   ZipCity117

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 12:11 PM

TS

 

- Coliseum

- Empire

- Plaza

- Rig

- Truth

 

CTF

 

- Empire

- Coliseum

- Fathom

- Truth

 

Strongholds

 

- Eden

- Rig

 

Coliseum & Empire TS are trash. Also Strongholds =  :goat:


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#33   TBURNER

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 02:19 PM

noradarnoradarnoradarnoradar

noradarnoradarnoradarnoradar

noradarnoradarnoradarnoradar

noradarnoradarnoradarnoradar

 

Can't stress this enough...

 

Automatic weapons are unbalanced with radar in this game. If anyone gets somewhat of a moderate jump on you with a automatic gun (Especially Storm rifles) you cant even trade. You can't out maneuver them or sneak away like I often would if I caught of guard in previous halos. Radar in any shape or form is not good for competitive play.


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#34   Stu

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 05:53 PM

I agree with OPs point about 343 controlling these gametypes/settings that we play. I feel like they need to make changes and add things in sooner rather than later, and we as a community need to be trying out different settings to see if things can be improved upon.

 

Is anybody testing out competitive settings at all? Such as no sprint, no thruster, BR start, no radar, no AR start, etc.?

I feel like when forge releases, maps could be created to suit better settings.

 

We need better maps and gametypes IMO, the maps we have now are dismal aside from Truth/Coliseum, but I would love to see some great forge maps included in the rotation along with the addition of oddball, maybe koth. Breakout should be removed from competitive rotation and be left as a playlist only.


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#35   The InSan3 One

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 08:34 AM

I want to believe that after the HWC we'll get more competitive settings. I understand that they wanted to keep the settings close to vanilla as possible so it would be accessible to the normies. But after this tournament everything should be reevaluated and reconsidered.
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#36   i cut u up

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 11:07 AM

I don't have the time to play competitively, but I wish I did. This game has a much higher skill gap than any halo since 2/CE. Watching Optic vs Liquid play last night really showed that. 343 really did a good job with the pistol + movement.

The only thing that made me exceptionally upset was the prevelent use of Automatic weapons. I CONSTANTLY saw Stellur/Maniac just crouching around with the storm rifle/AR. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen a competitive Halo match where crouching with an automatic weapon was involved. It's pathetic.

If 343 really cares about competitive halo they will remove ARs from the loadout. Put them on the map with a 45 second respawn. I like the weapon diversity and some of the gameplay it creates, but it's almost better to spray and pray than use the pistol in many situations.

I can't decide if radar is good or bad yet. But I'd really like to see someone like Ghost or Bravo comment on why they thought it was necessary to include it.


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#37   Infinity

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 11:15 AM

 

 

A lot of people agree that the removal of Radar would nerf automatics heavily, so that is the main push that everyone wants to go for.


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#38   i cut u up

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 11:26 AM

A lot of people agree that the removal of Radar would nerf automatics heavily, so that is the main push that everyone wants to go for.

 

That would make a lot of sense. It almost puts better people at a disadvantage too. It's hard for me to even look at it out of muscle memory.


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#39   Joshua Swick

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 11:30 AM

I agree. I haven't enjoyed slayer in Halo for a very long time. There are never enough incentives to move around the map. Objectives force more map movement and prevent boring stalemates. 

 

I agree. I haven't enjoyed slayer in Halo for a very long time. There are never enough incentives to move around the map. Objectives force more map movement and prevent boring stalemates. 

 

Power weapons and pushing when the other team is down 1 or 2 isn't incentive?


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#40   Nabster

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 01:58 PM

Power weapons and pushing when the other team is down 1 or 2 isn't incentive?

 

Shitty power item placement in many of the slayer variants indeed don't provide incentive to move around the map. If my team wins the opening push on say plaza slayer we can just continually grab overshield and sniper while trapping the other team around nest.

 

In this case there isn't just no incentive to push, it is actually harmful because you are giving the other team an opportunity to get out of the spawn trap while giving up power weapon spawn control.

 

The good thing about objective is that you can get away with shittier weapon and map layout if the objective provides enough incentive to move.

 

This is easily apparent when you compare how slayer and objective variants on the same map play.

Take say, Lockout King versus Lockout slayer. The movement-hostile nature of the map is alleviated by the objective (i.e the swapping of the hills around the map).

 

Slayer actually has to be good on its own, which is honestly a pretty tall order considering the current halo developers.

 

No wonder TS works so well in CE with faster power weapon spawning in smart placings , and works so terribly in Halo 5 with slow spawning and bad placement.


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#41   TheSituJAKEtion

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 12:52 AM

So what is the general consensus on Arena Breakout? Unfortunately I didn't get to play it. Would it be a good replacement for normal Breakout in the HCS rotation?


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#42   RTSxRagnarok

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 04:45 AM

So what is the general consensus on Arena Breakout? Unfortunately I didn't get to play it. Would it be a good replacement for normal Breakout in the HCS rotation?

@Infinity made a great write up comparing the two, and I think he takes the right approach. Worth a read if you ask me.


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#43   Infinity

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 04:53 AM

Yup, read the post.
 

Essentially I believe that we shouldn't just slap Arena Breakout over Breakout for HWC and call it a day, they both have redeeming qualities but they both need to be improved upon DRASTICALLY.

 

Main Ideas:

  • Play on a mix of Arena maps AND Breakout Maps
  • Keep shields, remove Radar
  • Better map design, more power weapons, more powerups, more reasons to move around the map

@Mikwen, you seem to be one of those on the forefront of discussing settings, and obviously you prefer Arena Breakout over standard Breakout. Read this and tell me what you think.

 

and @Chig voted! Would love to hear what you have to say


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#44   Slayer

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 07:32 AM

Still vote to remove breakout from arena.
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#45   Merce

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 08:10 PM

At the moment we have 20 gametypes for the Halo World Championship. In my opinion, we aren't going to see the highest level of gameplay possible with this many gametypes. I think we had the correct formula with the 11 gametype rotation, or at least were on the right track. I would like to see a solid rotation of gametypes, and I just believe 20 is far too many, because we are definitely sacrificing some quality for quantity.

 

In a 5 game series I would like to see a format like the following;

 

Flag

Slayer

Strongholds

Breakout

Slayer

 

With this format it would make sense to have a gameplay lineup of 4 TS, 3 CTF, 2 Strongholds and 2 Breakout gametypes and we would be left with something similar to this;

 

Slayer

Colosseum

Truth

Empire

Plaza

 

Flag

Fathom

Truth

Colosseum

 

Stronghold

Eden

Plaza

 

Breakout

Gambol

Trident

 

This is just an idea, I've not put too much thought into it, but it seems to remove a lot of the lesser gametypes. 


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#46   logan

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 08:13 PM

Realistically speaking, what are the odds of getting a full 20 game scrim in? That seems unrealistic. I'm sure one of the eight people would most likely have to go before you play 20 games.


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#47   Frederic_104

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 08:20 PM

What's the consensus on forge maps here? We still taking a hard line "absolutely not", or if a map is good enough (both gameplay and aesthetically), it might be worth consideration? Reason I ask is because some of the maps forgers are making are straight up looking like they came out of a dev kit. Take this one for instance that Batchford posted today. It's insane.

 

SecretSchnitzel has made a map based off of Imminent from Halo 1.5. Played on it yesterday, and it is fantastic.

 

 

 

If forgers can make maps look this good, maybe we might even be able to get a competitively viable one from a forger that stands up aesthetically.


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#48   Jay

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 09:10 PM

Remove Breakout, remove Strongholds, add King, add Ball, add some good forge maps, take away radar, ar, smg, shotgun and sword from all maps, take away a lot of the grenades too, remove plaza, delete overgrowth from the game files.


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#49   Qbit

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 08:44 AM

What's the consensus on forge maps here? We still taking a hard line "absolutely not", or if a map is good enough (both gameplay and aesthetically), it might be worth consideration? Reason I ask is because some of the maps forgers are making are straight up looking like they came out of a dev kit. Take this one for instance that Batchford posted today. It's insane.

 

If forgers can make maps look this good, maybe we might even be able to get a competitively viable one from a forger that stands up aesthetically.

Forge maps are (and have the potential to be) much better than the native 343 maps. We should definitely be encouraging them. Aesthetics are certainly important, but at the end of the day the way the map plays is what matters most and the game currently sorely lacks good quality maps, so get them by any means necessary.


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#50   Il Meanbean lI

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 08:58 AM

remove Strongholds

The hell?

 

Strongholds is one of the best modes Halo has.


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